[normhead]

Looking at the size and reach of the lightest Pentax birding style package,

K-70- 688 grams - $700
DA 55-300 PLM- 471 gm. -$549
1159 gm to cover 24 MP and 80-450 FF Equivalent.
$1249

How do others stack up? What company or combo of companies has a lighter, cheaper, equivalent package?
I have so little knowledge of other brands, I wouldn't even know what to look at.
Anyone have a competing package, weight, price and zoom focal length, from another brand?

[reh321]

Looking at the size and reach of the lightest Pentax birding style package,

K-70- 688 grams - $700
DA 55-300 PLM- 471 gm. -$549
1159 gm to cover 24 MP and 80-450 FF Equivalent.
$1249

How do others stack up? What company or combo of companies has a lighter, cheaper, equivalent package?
I have so little knowledge of other brands, I wouldn't even know what to look at.
Anyone have a competing package, weight, price and zoom focal length, from another brand?

I went just now to the B&H to look at Canon for one of the few times since I switched from Canon back to Pentax in 2015.
Apparently, their equivalent today would be a "T8i" + 75-300mm iii.
The film-era 75-300mm I had was said by Canon enthusiasts to be one of Canon's worst effort; I don't now how this modern effort compares.

The T8i is listed by B&H at 515g, cost $749.

The 75-300mm is listed at 480g, cost $199.

So this would be a total of 995g to cover 24mp and 120-480 "FF equivalent" at a total cost of $948.

remember - Canon uses lots of "space age" materials in their Rebels.

[wadge22]

K-70- 688 grams - $700 DA 55-300 PLM- 471 gm. -$549 1159 gm to cover 24 MP and 80-450 FF Equivalent. $1249

The T8i is listed by B&H at 515g, cost $749.The 75-300mm is listed at 480g, cost $199.So this would be a total of 995g to cover 24mp and 120-480 "FF equivalent" at a total cost of $948.

Not sure if these two posts are comparing Canadian and US dollar prices or not. The K70 and 55-300 PLM can be had in a bundle at B&H for US$993.90.

[reh321]

Not sure if these two posts are comparing Canadian and US dollar prices or not. The K70 and 55-300 PLM can be had in a bundle at B&H for US$993.90.

In any case, the Canon price is less and it is said to have 'eye focus' which people tell me here is too much to expect from the mythical "K-90", even in a $1000 body,
I wonder if Canon is still having processor issues with their Rebel bodies - this almost makes me think of going back to Canon.

---

Last edited by reh321; 03-19-2022 at 12:58 PM.

[normhead]

So you'd give up image stabilization in a telephoto?
And pixel shift.

Build quality of the Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III USM Lens is mediocre (and this may be a generous rating). Lightness is the benefit, but you won't find smooth zoom and focus rings. I wouldn't want to subject the 75-300 III to a lot of abuse as I doubt it would survive.

Image quality from the Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III USM Lens is also mediocre.

The DA 55-300 PLM is top of class. Most people's 70-300 lenses are crap, and not WR. It looks like a false saving to me, looking at the whole system. How much are you willing to give up for $50?

But thanks for looking that up.

[BigMackCam]

So you'd give up image stabilization in a telephoto?
And pixel shift.

I quite like Canon gear, but the thing I've never been able to get on with is the position and orientation of that rear control dial. Since my original K-7, I've loved having two similar wheels - one at the front, one on the back to set shutter speed and aperture respectively. My Hasselblad HV and Sony A7 II have the same setup. I don't mind the upright positioning of the front control wheel on the Canon cameras, but that rear dial just isn't conveniently situated to maintain a normal grip with your eye to the viewfinder. You have to move your thumb quite far away from its natural resting position and insert it between your cheek and the back of the camera. Well, that's been my limited experience and opinion. Still, folks must get used to it. Canon sells enough cameras!!

[normhead]

I quite like Canon gear, but the thing I've never been able to get on with is the position and orientation of that rear control dial. Since my original K-7, I've loved having two similar wheels - one at the front, one on the back to set shutter speed and aperture respectively. My Hasselblad HV and Sony A7 II have the same setup. I don't mind the upright positioning of the front control wheel on the Canon cameras, but that rear dial just isn't conveniently situated to maintain a normal grip with your eye to the viewfinder. You have to move your thumb quite far away from its natural resting position and insert it between your cheek and the back of the camera. Well, that's been my limited experience and opinion. Still, folks must get used to it. Canon sells enough cameras!!

Well then, the Canon must be better. It sells more. I can't find a review of the 75-300 that has an MTF chart, except to say it's chart is mediocre. My DA 55-300 PLM is a little bit more than mediocre.

[BigMackCam]

Well then, the Canon must be better. It sells more.

Now you've got it. That's why mirrorless cameras are better too...

[c.a.m]

Well then, the Canon must be better. It sells more.

Certainly. The local McDonald's proudly proclaims on their street sign "OVER [99] BILLION SERVED."

- Craig

[LeeRunge]

Nikon D5600 (not WR) weight 465 grams.($696) 5 FPS
Nikon D7500 (WR) 640 Grams 8 FPS. ($999)
Tamron 18-400 (weather sealing) @ $649 weight 705 grams or AF-P NIKKOR 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6E ED VR Lens. Weight 680 grams ($596)(Weather sealed)

You would have to spend $1649 or $1596 on a D7500 with either of those lenses to get that requirement for weather sealing. (no pixel shift though). Although that combo would have much better autofocus in AF-C and the Tamron lens would offer a huge zoom range flexibility.

Z50 (450 grams) is weather sealed and 11fps with a much more capable AF system, but it’s $896 and would require a $250 FTZ to use either of those two lenses. The DX 50-250 Z lens is not weather sealed. It is available with the 16-50 and 50-250 for about $1200. None of the WR Z lenses are remotely close enough for price. With the 50-250 that camera and lens is much lighter at 855 grams but covers a 75-375mm eq. Range and is not weather sealed with that lens.

A much further reach combo of the Z50 with the FTZ and a Sigma 150-600C lens (weather sealing) $850 would be probably the cheapest combo for 11fps available and with WR but that’s about a $1950 combo and weighs 2514 grams.

I don’t have experience with the EVF in the Z50 but I would prefer OVF at the time of this writing for things moving fast involving panning. The Z9 is way to expensive but has fixed that. In low cost options OVF is the way to go.

M43 might have a combo.

Let’s try to find what’s in M43. I’m not at all familiar with Panasonics.

Looks like the Pana GH4 and 100-300F4-5.6 ii combo (200-600mm eq) would be weather sealed and about 1060 grams for @ $1245. 7 FPS in AF-C

M43 sensor at 16mp which is less resolution but that sensor stacks up well at least against the K-3’s 24mp in low light, it’s worse for dynamic range. I own the OMD EM10ii with the same sensor and the K-3. No pixel shift.

Lastly Sony,

A6000 (no weather sealing) 344 grams $599 up to 11fps, not sure details of that, probably a great AF system.
400 or 500mm F8 tokina reflex lenses are available for $249 or $349. That may work in bright light, but not great at high shutter speeds.
70-300 Tamron is weather sealed and available for $499.

So A6000 with 70-300 4.5-6.3 Tamron is $1199 and weighs……944 grams.

Some use the 150-600 options with this camera or a A6400 as a sub 2k birding setup as well. (Requires mc-11 adapter)

You can’t beat the K-70 55-300 combo for weather sealed lowest price that I can find.

That Panasonic setup is more telephoto for good or bad depending on needs and it’s only 16mp, no IBIS in that one but lens has stabilization.

My money would be on the Pentax K70 and 55-300 being the best of any of those listed if lowest price is the determining factor. It’s only downside is the AF-C is weak but if you practice good technique you can work around that. For weather sealing I don’t think you can beat that Pentax combo for the price/weight. That was the original reason I bought into Pentax a decade ago. Canon/Nikon had nothing even close for the price with weather sealing. That’s pretty much an unbeatable combo at that price for weather sealing and that amount of reach. If they make a K-90 based on K-3 iii’s AF system for sub 1000 it’ll be a monster of a deal.

The only real downside to that K70 is the 11 point Safox X is a pretty old AF system by modern standards. Noting that the D3500 which costs more is also 11 points and also an old system by modern standards.

[surfar]

How do others stack up? What company or combo of companies has a lighter, cheaper, equivalent package?

Fuji Xt3 with Tamron 18-300mm...same weight, similar battery life and a little more costly today at U$ 1484 (online in Australia A2000,body 1109 BecexTech,lens 891 Digidirect)

The extra cost justifies the superior specs and performance.

Youtu.be

Youtu.be

[normhead]

Nikon D5600 (not WR) weight 465 grams.($696) 5 FPS
Nikon D7500 (WR) 640 Grams 8 FPS. ($999)
Tamron 18-400 (weather sealing) @ $649 weight 705 grams or AF-P NIKKOR 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6E ED VR Lens. Weight 680 grams ($596)(Weather sealed)

You would have to spend $1649 or $1596 on a D7500 with either of those lenses to get that requirement for weather sealing. (no pixel shift though). Although that combo would have much better autofocus in AF-C and the Tamron lens would offer a huge zoom range flexibility.

Z50 (450 grams) is weather sealed and 11fps with a much more capable AF system, but it’s $896 and would require a $250 FTZ to use either of those two lenses. The DX 50-250 Z lens is not weather sealed. It is available with the 16-50 and 50-250 for about $1200. None of the WR Z lenses are remotely close enough for price. With the 50-250 that camera and lens is much lighter at 855 grams but covers a 75-375mm eq. Range and is not weather sealed with that lens.

A much further reach combo of the Z50 with the FTZ and a Sigma 150-600C lens (weather sealing) $850 would be probably the cheapest combo for 11fps available and with WR but that’s about a $1950 combo and weighs 2514 grams.

I don’t have experience with the EVF in the Z50 but I would prefer OVF at the time of this writing for things moving fast involving panning. The Z9 is way to expensive but has fixed that. In low cost options OVF is the way to go.

M43 might have a combo.

Let’s try to find what’s in M43. I’m not at all familiar with Panasonics.

Looks like the Pana GH4 and 100-300F4-5.6 ii combo (200-600mm eq) would be weather sealed and about 1060 grams for @ $1245. 7 FPS in AF-C

M43 sensor at 16mp which is less resolution but that sensor stacks up well at least against the K-3’s 24mp in low light, it’s worse for dynamic range. I own the OMD EM10ii with the same sensor and the K-3. No pixel shift.

Lastly Sony,

A6000 (no weather sealing) 344 grams $599 up to 11fps, not sure details of that, probably a great AF system.
400 or 500mm F8 tokina reflex lenses are available for $249 or $349. That may work in bright light, but not great at high shutter speeds.
70-300 Tamron is weather sealed and available for $499.

So A6000 with 70-300 4.5-6.3 Tamron is $1199 and weighs……944 grams.

Some use the 150-600 options with this camera or a A6400 as a sub 2k birding setup as well. (Requires mc-11 adapter)

You can’t beat the K-70 55-300 combo for weather sealed lowest price that I can find.

That Panasonic setup is more telephoto for good or bad depending on needs and it’s only 16mp, no IBIS in that one but lens has stabilization.

My money would be on the Pentax K70 and 55-300 being the best of any of those listed if lowest price is the determining factor. It’s only downside is the AF-C is weak but if you practice good technique you can work around that. For weather sealing I don’t think you can beat that Pentax combo for the price/weight. That was the original reason I bought into Pentax a decade ago. Canon/Nikon had nothing even close for the price with weather sealing. That’s pretty much an unbeatable combo at that price for weather sealing and that amount of reach. If they make a K-90 based on K-3 iii’s AF system for sub 1000 it’ll be a monster of a deal.

The only real downside to that K70 is the 11 point Safox X is a pretty old AF system by modern standards. Noting that the D3500 which costs more is also 11 points and also an old system by modern standards.

That's a great collection of information there.

[LeeRunge]

Fuji Xt3 with Tamron 18-300mm...same weight, similar battery life and a little more costly today at U$ 1484 (online in Australia A2000,body 1109 BecexTech,lens 891 Digidirect)

The extra cost justifies the superior specs and performance.



https://youtu.be/2EGGxo2vb9o

I totally missed that Fuji haha.

---------- Post added 03-19-2022 at 06:34 PM ----------

That's a great collection of information there.

If it’s just DSLR/OVF someone’s looking for i don’t think you can beat that K70 for the price with that lens.

The mirrorless options are more advanced but I would have to try the EVF first now that I have two before I would want to go all in for dealing with panning shots with wildlife.

[surfar]

I totally missed that Fuji haha.

I dont have the Tamron yet but my M43 set up is ok too.

Recently bought the OMD EM1 mk3 ...coupled with the MK2 75-300 I get 150-600 ff FOV.Thats 1003 grams.Then I can screw on the 1.7x magnifier to give over 1000mm(of course that cant be used that well under dark canopies)

[LeeRunge]

I dont have the Tamron yet but my M43 set up is ok too.

Recently bought the OMD EM1 mk3 ...coupled with the MK2 75-300 I get 150-600 ff FOV.Thats 1003 grams.Then I can screw on the 1.7x magnifier to give over 1000mm(of course that cant be used that well under dark canopies)

How do you like the procapture?

I find livecomposite to be a lot of fun with lightning.

I came very very close to getting the OMD EM1 ii or iii with the 12-100 instead of the Z5 with the 24-200. The sensor experience on my EM10ii is what held me back. Dynamic range is a bit tight on that one and it wasn’t looking much better on the newer 20mp sensor. Otherwise I really like the OMD’s.

Livebulb, livecomposite and procapture are really killer features. And nobody beats them for IBIS plus in lens stabilization. What is it like 8.5 stops or something with both?

That’s from my OMD EM 10 ii with the dirt cheap 40-150 set off via my cell phone from a safe distance, those crabs are fast and tiny. Think the size of a dime.

That $199 dollar 40-150 is a great lens for what it costs. I paid $99 for it new.




These were with livecomposite on the EM10 ii. It’s like cheating to get shots of lightning with it. This is from the Arizona desert.