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05-17-2022, 01:23 AM - 1 Like   #31
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The 90D does require very good lenses from what I've seen, with the 32mp APSC sensor it really shows flaws in older and poorer quality lenses.

It also doesn't have as good of an AF system as a 7D II or the Nikon D500.

Rumor is the Canon R7 will be announced next week and it will have the 32mp sensor from the 90D and the AF of the R5 and R6. Who knows what the price will be but that could be very good.

05-17-2022, 01:53 PM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by kayasaman Quote
I would agree with this and hence the reason why the K3 iii might be the best choice if AF was on par with other systems.


I can shoot static subjects just fine, they are in focus with no issues.

I do shake a lot in general but I have SR turned on and also the shutter speeds I've been using are around between 1/1000 to 1/4000. I doubt with the shutter setting this high, the image should come out blurred from motion. On larger bodies such as planes in the range of Boeing 777 or 787 models at a distance but enough to fill a few focus points using my 300mm, they are still coming out a little soft. I had the same issue with a Squirrel recently too which was at around 20 meters (60 ft) away.

If the subject is large and covers around 2/3 of the frame, then the AF works well. Tested on a few pigeons walking infront of me.


Most likely the problem is with distant and small subjects. I had a few attempts at shooting a crow perched on top of a tree in front of me. The crow probably covered about 1/4 if the frame. It came out soft each time and I had Continuous shooting mode on and set to H.

Going for a Nikon D4S or D500 (as suggested) with a Tamron 150-600mm lens will cost about the same amount as the DFA150-450mm.


Another example is a robbin which was purched around 4 or 5 meters (around 15ft) in front me. There was no detail in any of the feathers or plumage at all.


The best I could do with the AF are these:

_IMG0257.jpg - Google Drive

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Eventually I got so fedup that I switched to my Irix 150mm and manually focused. This is cropped but what I would expect to see:

_IMG0649.jpg - Google Drive

---------- Post added 05-15-22 at 04:17 PM ----------



Those are some amazing images!! I could not get anywhere near that level of clarity unless I used MF.
What F-stop are you using??
Iíve seldom taken photos that arenít up to my standards.
05-17-2022, 02:10 PM - 1 Like   #33
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Is the D850 that much worse than the D500/D4S, haven't seen it mentioned yet and always thought it looked a great camera if I was going to jump ship
05-17-2022, 02:14 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
What F-stop are you using??
Iíve seldom taken photos that arenít up to my standards.

F-stop? It depends on many things. Today I tried f5.6, f/8, and f/11 by accident as my finger must have caught the e-dial and spun it from f/8.


Experimenting today with AF sensitivity settings, and found that -10 actually helps. More in-focus shots.... so instead of 1 in 1000 now it has become sort of like 1 in 100 (or something like that) - at least with the 300mm lens.


I chased a robin all day today and out of around 500 shots, I have something like 5 - 10 which actually show the feathers and plumage in some detail.


If anyone wants to see them, I can pop them up on my Gdrive....

---------- Post added 05-17-22 at 02:32 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by GreenRich Quote
Is the D850 that much worse than the D500/D4S, haven't seen it mentioned yet and always thought it looked a great camera if I was going to jump ship

The D850 is an excellent camera, and I was seriously considering it before going for the K1 ii.

I haven't mentioned it because I am after something that has ultra fast AF capabilities as that is all I need. My K1 can do everything very well apart from anything that needs AF (read action ie. wildlife and fast moving targets).


The D850 is a fantastic all-round camera that can do everything, but doesn't have the lightning pace as the gripped line of bodies. For example Canon uses 2 processors for AF tracking in their pro body. Not sure about Nikon, the D500 and D5 are supposed to share the same processor but I think the D5 has overall more raw power. I didn't mention this model either as even used it is still quite expensive.


At least on paper both the D4S and D500 outperform the K1 in terms of AF capabilities, add a long lens and you have a high performance action system.


Something I have been considering for a long time is to go with the Borg system: ????

basically it's a modular telefoto/telescope lens system that you can swap the focal length around. The owner used to work for Takahashi telescopes then created his own company.

This would solve two issues for me in one. Long focal length for linear photography plus flat field for astro photography. The only thing is that these would be MF when the aperture ring module is connected. This is fine but the animals that I'm chasing appear for only a few seconds at best then disappear. I have around 2 or 3 seconds tops to get the camera to my eye, find target, focus, and shoot.

Maybe the animals in my neighborhood are just antisocial, I don't know... lol

05-17-2022, 07:59 PM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by kayasaman Quote
By the way ultra cool pictures of yours provided in the link above. That spider is simply amazing!
thank you

---------- Post added 05-17-2022 at 08:25 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by kayasaman Quote
F-stop? It depends on many things. Today I tried f5.6, f/8, and f/11 by accident as my finger must have caught the e-dial and spun it from f/8.
How much you stop down the lens should not really matter, if you nail the shot on the eye then you nail the shot on the eye, If you have to stop down to allow for inconsistency lets call it what is is a missed focus. All camera are prone to this how much is what matters.
05-18-2022, 01:28 AM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by kayasaman Quote
I haven't mentioned it because I am after something that has ultra fast AF capabilities as that is all I need. My K1 can do everything very well apart from anything that needs AF (read action ie. wildlife and fast moving targets).


The D850 is a fantastic all-round camera that can do everything, but doesn't have the lightning pace as the gripped line of bodies. For example Canon uses 2 processors for AF tracking in their pro body. Not sure about Nikon, the D500 and D5 are supposed to share the same processor but I think the D5 has overall more raw power. I didn't mention this model either as even used it is still quite expensive.
Interesting, seems it is all a compromise, I think why I looked at the D850 previously was that that high ISO capability was supposed to be a lot better than the D500 or D4S. I don't know where you live but shooting wildlife, especially birds in the UK, large part of the year is under gloomy skies or in woods and I often find myself up at higher ISO's, on my KP I happily let it go to 6400. I would love to have faster autofocus but would hate to then lose any benefit to noise destroying all the feather detail. I think between the higher ISO and more MP, it made the D850 look better for heavy cropping as well although with the 600mm more affordably available on Nikon, might be less of an issue. Probably less of an issue if mainly for BIF.
05-18-2022, 03:49 AM - 1 Like   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by kayasaman Quote
F-stop? It depends on many things. Today I tried f5.6, f/8, and f/11 by accident as my finger must have caught the e-dial and spun it from f/8.


Experimenting today with AF sensitivity settings, and found that -10 actually helps. More in-focus shots.... so instead of 1 in 1000 now it has become sort of like 1 in 100 (or something like that) - at least with the 300mm lens.


I chased a robin all day today and out of around 500 shots, I have something like 5 - 10 which actually show the feathers and plumage in some detail.


If anyone wants to see them, I can pop them up on my Gdrive....

---------- Post added 05-17-22 at 02:32 PM ----------




The D850 is an excellent camera, and I was seriously considering it before going for the K1 ii.

I haven't mentioned it because I am after something that has ultra fast AF capabilities as that is all I need. My K1 can do everything very well apart from anything that needs AF (read action ie. wildlife and fast moving targets).


The D850 is a fantastic all-round camera that can do everything, but doesn't have the lightning pace as the gripped line of bodies. For example Canon uses 2 processors for AF tracking in their pro body. Not sure about Nikon, the D500 and D5 are supposed to share the same processor but I think the D5 has overall more raw power. I didn't mention this model either as even used it is still quite expensive.


At least on paper both the D4S and D500 outperform the K1 in terms of AF capabilities, add a long lens and you have a high performance action system.


Something I have been considering for a long time is to go with the Borg system: ????

basically it's a modular telefoto/telescope lens system that you can swap the focal length around. The owner used to work for Takahashi telescopes then created his own company.

This would solve two issues for me in one. Long focal length for linear photography plus flat field for astro photography. The only thing is that these would be MF when the aperture ring module is connected. This is fine but the animals that I'm chasing appear for only a few seconds at best then disappear. I have around 2 or 3 seconds tops to get the camera to my eye, find target, focus, and shoot.

Maybe the animals in my neighborhood are just antisocial, I don't know... lol
Curious why the K3III is not a more serious consideration for your nature/wildlife use?

Its AF system is on par with the well regarded Nikon D500 you mentioned, but much smaller and more compact and with far more features, increased dynamic range, better low-light performance, and better resolution. All your existing Pentax lenses will be compatible with it so no added expense there, and the batteries can be shared between the K3III and K1. Voila, no more robins without feathers, and no investment in an additional ecosystem required!

Those two bodies are my standard kit now when out on wildlife shoots. The K3III intended for BiF, four-legged critters and general moving subjects, and usually with a 150-450 mounted, and yes the 1.4TC may improve results over cropping in good light. The K1 will get either a DFA50 or 15-30, both wonderful for capturing landscapes. All in the same ecosystem with the same gear, and every lens carried can be used on either body. Or travel light with just the K3III with reach, features, resolution, low-noise, dynamic range, and focus speed, and good for those less-rushed landscape images from the lenses you already have.

The K3III can be had brand-new including a battery grip for $1700. I bought my used 150-450 for $1400, and on the K3III it becomes effectively 700mm, or in good light with the Pentax 1.4TC around 1000mm. On a serious budget? My $400 Sigma 170-500 DG APO does very nicely too, very highly rated by Pentax users. Just not as crisp and clean, or fast to focus, as what I capture with my 150-450. But it is a lot lighter if that matters. Further, there's a number of DA300 owners like yourself who will claim that star lens coupled with the Pentax 1.4 TC performs just as well as the 150-450 on a crop body. Those TC's can regularly be found for less than $300 with a little patient shopping.

Building out two separate camera lines without a clear necessity to do so seems like a poor plan both budget and equipment-wise. You're already happy with your K1 for scenery and landscapes so you'll end up carrying two bodies anyway for best results on a hike or wilderness visit. At least I do, and I'll assume you have no intention of selling off your K1 and lenses.

Of course if you're like some of us you buy something just because you want it, and good enough reason to look at Canon or Nikon options. It's your money. I just bought a Rotolight I don't really need just because I wanted to, logic be damned. But I don't think those cameras you've been considering will perform better than the K3III added to the K1 you already have. IMO they'll be a downgrade in convenience and quality. None of those you are considering would be better than your K1 for slow or non-moving subjects, and none you mentioned will have better AF speed than the K3III.


Last edited by gatorguy; 05-18-2022 at 05:11 AM.
05-18-2022, 05:47 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
Curious why the K3III is not a more serious consideration for your nature/wildlife use?

Its AF system is on par with the well regarded Nikon D500 you mentioned, but much smaller and more compact and with far more features, increased dynamic range, better low-light performance, and better resolution. All your existing Pentax lenses will be compatible with it so no added expense there, and the batteries can be shared between the K3III and K1. Voila, no more robins without feathers, and no investment in an additional ecosystem required!

Those two bodies are my standard kit now when out on wildlife shoots. The K3III intended for BiF, four-legged critters and general moving subjects, and usually with a 150-450 mounted, and yes the 1.4TC may improve results over cropping in good light. The K1 will get either a DFA50 or 15-30, both wonderful for capturing landscapes. All in the same ecosystem with the same gear, and every lens carried can be used on either body. Or travel light with just the K3III with reach, features, resolution, low-noise, dynamic range, and focus speed, and good for those less-rushed landscape images from the lenses you already have.

The K3III can be had brand-new including a battery grip for $1700. I bought my used 150-450 for $1400, and on the K3III it becomes effectively 700mm, or in good light with the Pentax 1.4TC around 1000mm. On a serious budget? My $400 Sigma 170-500 DG APO does very nicely too, very highly rated by Pentax users. Just not as crisp and clean, or fast to focus, as what I capture with my 150-450. But it is a lot lighter if that matters. Further, there's a number of DA300 owners like yourself who will claim that star lens coupled with the Pentax 1.4 TC performs just as well as the 150-450 on a crop body. Those TC's can regularly be found for less than $300 with a little patient shopping.

Building out two separate camera lines without a clear necessity to do so seems like a poor plan both budget and equipment-wise. You're already happy with your K1 for scenery and landscapes so you'll end up carrying two bodies anyway for best results on a hike or wilderness visit. At least I do, and I'll assume you have no intention of selling off your K1 and lenses.

Of course if you're like some of us you buy something just because you want it, and good enough reason to look at Canon or Nikon options. It's your money. I just bought a Rotolight I don't really need just because I wanted to, logic be damned. But I don't think those cameras you've been considering will perform better than the K3III added to the K1 you already have. IMO they'll be a downgrade in convenience and quality. None of those you are considering would be better than your K1 for slow or non-moving subjects, and none you mentioned will have better AF speed than the K3III.
That's a really interesting point that you're making. I actually was considering the K3 iii, but more for AstroTracer3 then the linear (Normal photography features). I think the AF in my K1 put me off Pentax for moving subjects and wildlife.

If your claim that the K3 iii AF is on par or better then the Nikon bodies I mentioned then you are correct in that it is a no brainer. My FA*300mm would turn into something like 450mm on a cropped sensor without the need for anything else. Also I can trust the body, the Pentax way of working suites me well!

I'm just a little concerned over lenses too as the 150-450 is the only real long reach lens available. Of course many people will have different opinions on working with TC's. Sure Nikon and Canon have longer lenses available to them but spending $24k on an 800mm telephoto is not gona happen for me.

Just checked K3 iii pricing. The place that I get my photography kit from (which is one of the cheapest stores in Europe) has it for around $2500. There is a price reduction on the K3 iii with DFA28-105 lens at around $3000 but I already have the lens... also finding a used 150-450 will be hard. Brand new they around $2500 (around same price as K3 iii)

---------- Post added 05-18-22 at 05:53 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by GreenRich Quote
Interesting, seems it is all a compromise, I think why I looked at the D850 previously was that that high ISO capability was supposed to be a lot better than the D500 or D4S. I don't know where you live but shooting wildlife, especially birds in the UK, large part of the year is under gloomy skies or in woods and I often find myself up at higher ISO's, on my KP I happily let it go to 6400. I would love to have faster autofocus but would hate to then lose any benefit to noise destroying all the feather detail. I think between the higher ISO and more MP, it made the D850 look better for heavy cropping as well although with the 600mm more affordably available on Nikon, might be less of an issue. Probably less of an issue if mainly for BIF.
Yeah a flying bird against the sky won't need high ISO. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to process high ISO shots. In RawTherapee there is a bundled profile for different ISO types, but it seems that the images loose clarity beyond ISO 100.

It maybe more technique related so I am trying to work through things in a procedural manner. One thing I found was to use exposure compensation set to around -1 to -2 EV when in challenging light conditions, bright sunlight spots with shadow. Though I'm still working on understanding the image behavior in this situation.
05-20-2022, 02:03 AM - 1 Like   #39
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Here are some testing with the Sigma sport and D810, while I think the D4s is slightly better for AF speeds they do share many of the same features. If I compare the D4 to the D810and the D800 I would rate them D4 as the better then the D810 followed by the D800

Photo Sharing. Your Photos Look Better Here.

All taken along side a highway with a posted speed limit of 100 kmph
Here is a 100%

https://photos.smugmug.com/Temp/Temp/i-c34j64d/0/6eab20a8/5K/_2031989-5K.jpg

Here you can see it tracks up to some conditions that are beyond the average uses

Last edited by Ian Stuart Forsyth; 05-20-2022 at 02:10 AM.
05-20-2022, 04:03 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
Here are some testing with the Sigma sport and D810, while I think the D4s is slightly better for AF speeds they do share many of the same features. If I compare the D4 to the D810and the D800 I would rate them D4 as the better then the D810 followed by the D800

Photo Sharing. Your Photos Look Better Here.

All taken along side a highway with a posted speed limit of 100 kmph
Here is a 100%

https://photos.smugmug.com/Temp/Temp/i-c34j64d/0/6eab20a8/5K/_2031989-5K.jpg

Here you can see it tracks up to some conditions that are beyond the average uses
That's really amazing! Where all of the shots you took here in focus or are these just the good ones?


I'm curious as for me AF is still hit and miss. The other night I played with the DFA28-105 lens in the rain. I was shooting directly at a lit area. The camera wouldn't even fire. Eventually I turned off AF and used Live View with magnification instead.
05-20-2022, 10:00 PM - 1 Like   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by kayasaman Quote
That's really amazing! Where all of the shots you took here in focus or are these just the good ones?
they are consecutive frames without any missing


QuoteOriginally posted by kayasaman Quote
I'm curious as for me AF is still hit and miss. The other night I played with the DFA28-105 lens in the rain. I was shooting directly at a lit area. The camera wouldn't even fire. Eventually I turned off AF and used Live View with magnification instead.
Maybe there is something wrong with the camera?

---------- Post added 05-20-2022 at 10:00 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by kayasaman Quote
That's really amazing! Where all of the shots you took here in focus or are these just the good ones?
they are consecutive frames without any missing


QuoteOriginally posted by kayasaman Quote
I'm curious as for me AF is still hit and miss. The other night I played with the DFA28-105 lens in the rain. I was shooting directly at a lit area. The camera wouldn't even fire. Eventually I turned off AF and used Live View with magnification instead.
Maybe there is something wrong with the camera?
05-21-2022, 08:05 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
they are consecutive frames without any missing




Maybe there is something wrong with the camera?

---------- Post added 05-20-2022 at 10:00 PM ----------



they are consecutive frames without any missing




Maybe there is something wrong with the camera?

No idea... AF works (sometimes, a lot better with AF fine adjust set to -10 now)! Here's a few more samples (you can see the variation to in focus and out of focus subjects):

_IMG3054.jpg - Google Drive

_IMG3130.jpg - Google Drive

_IMG3005.jpg - Google Drive

_IMG3045.jpg - Google Drive

_IMG3034.jpg - Google Drive

_IMG3038.jpg - Google Drive


Apart from the snail, all images were shot using the FA*300mm lens in TAv mode, shutter 1/1000s and f/5.6.

The snail was shot using my Irix 150mm tele-macro using manual focus, shutter 1/1000 and f/22 with iso automatically set to 9000 (TAv mode), handheld in an awkward position.

All images have been run through RawTherapee using a few adjustments in default settings.


I'm still comparing the D4s to the D500. It will be one of those two cameras most likely that I will go for. The extra reach of the D500 is definitely appealing, but I am unable to find out if the overall system speed and accuracy is higher then the D4s. I mean the D5 is more closely related to the D500 and is mentioned to be slightly faster and have better AF lockon.... a really difficult decision
05-21-2022, 08:45 AM - 1 Like   #43
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1/1000 for a snail? That must have been one fast snail.
05-21-2022, 09:26 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by KiloHotelphoto Quote
1/1000 for a snail? That must have been one fast snail.
LOL!!!

I used fast shutter because I was shooting handheld. If I go below 1/1000 I get bad blurring. I don't think SR can keep up with my wobbling.... after all it is for Shaking and not full on wobbling.


That's why I always prefer to use a tripod whenever I can. Currently I'm trying to catch the birds that visit our backyard taking off or landing. I don't think the K1 is doing a great job of keeping up. On continuous H mode, the next frame where the bird takes off (in this case an STOL - slow take off and landing - read pigeon) is blank as the bird has already left the frame.


While shooting a robin, I am even thinking about (using a term that Canon users have been described doing) 'machine gunning' the shutter, but if the robin doesn't move within a few seconds the FB will be filled up and I'll miss my chance. So now I'm trying to work out the best way to either a) anticipate it's action or b) just keep the shutter button pressed and hope for the best. :-/


Maybe the birds in my area are just not suitable?? I mean there's about 3 seconds of time at most to get the camera ready, find the target and center, lockon and fire the shutter. After that bird is gone!


I mean unless I am doing something totally wrong and don't understand what??

---------- Post added 05-21-22 at 09:44 AM ----------

Ok so here are some tripod based attempts:

_IMG3154.jpg - Google Drive

_IMG3241.jpg - Google Drive


The pigeon was done at 1/500s as I was tracking it walking around first getting a few test shots and trying to keep the iso lower using f/5.6.


The robin was done at 1/1000s again at f5.6. My AF mode is set to Continuous and Expanded Area L with the center positioned over the bird itself. I thought this mode was supposed to track the object? I have the manual infront of me now - Page 58.


As Ian has shown, if the Nikon can do a better job with this, then I guess that's really about what this post is all about.
05-21-2022, 11:40 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by kayasaman Quote
LOL!!!

I used fast shutter because I was shooting handheld. If I go below 1/1000 I get bad blurring. I don't think SR can keep up with my wobbling.... after all it is for Shaking and not full on wobbling.


That's why I always prefer to use a tripod whenever I can. Currently I'm trying to catch the birds that visit our backyard taking off or landing. I don't think the K1 is doing a great job of keeping up. On continuous H mode, the next frame where the bird takes off (in this case an STOL - slow take off and landing - read pigeon) is blank as the bird has already left the frame.


While shooting a robin, I am even thinking about (using a term that Canon users have been described doing) 'machine gunning' the shutter, but if the robin doesn't move within a few seconds the FB will be filled up and I'll miss my chance. So now I'm trying to work out the best way to either a) anticipate it's action or b) just keep the shutter button pressed and hope for the best. :-/


Maybe the birds in my area are just not suitable?? I mean there's about 3 seconds of time at most to get the camera ready, find the target and center, lockon and fire the shutter. After that bird is gone!


I mean unless I am doing something totally wrong and don't understand what??

---------- Post added 05-21-22 at 09:44 AM ----------

Ok so here are some tripod based attempts:

_IMG3154.jpg - Google Drive

_IMG3241.jpg - Google Drive


The pigeon was done at 1/500s as I was tracking it walking around first getting a few test shots and trying to keep the iso lower using f/5.6.


The robin was done at 1/1000s again at f5.6. My AF mode is set to Continuous and Expanded Area L with the center positioned over the bird itself. I thought this mode was supposed to track the object? I have the manual infront of me now - Page 58.


As Ian has shown, if the Nikon can do a better job with this, then I guess that's really about what this post is all about.
Note that the D500 does not have native shake reduction, unlike your Pentax. If you don't have a steady hand with the five-axis, five-shutter-step camera shake compensation on your K1 you won't get any steadier results from the Nikons you're looking at. Be certain to buy in-lens stabilized glass for them and keep the cameras on tripod.
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