[gatorguy]

Thank you so much! Right now my immediate plan is to work on planes, they're big easy and slow just after takeoff. Probably first up will be 600mm or 300mm (35mm equivalent). I need to get used to things first! I have had my K1 ii for a year now and most of it was spent with the camera pointed towards the sky at night. It's only now that I'm starting to learn about the camera capabilities during the day time.

On my list of things to get now will be an astro tracking mount and Bahtinov mask for focusing, at least in the astro department. Not sure about wildlife yet, will need to try hand held first then see if I need a gimble. Luckily Gitzo have a good quality one which isn't too expensive. It's around 1/3 of the price of the double gimble from Novoflex which is the make of my tripod.

You should have no problem with aircraft, which fly on a predictable path. I used both an old K50 (Edit: and a KS2 according to EXIF data) and a somewhat newer K70 with a DA*200 and *300 for big airshows. Results were fantastic with both cameras.

Technique is probably more important than the camera used. I'm sure you'll enjoy your D500.

---

Last edited by gatorguy; 06-28-2022 at 03:19 PM.

[surfar]

There's really nothing else out there in the APS-C format that can touch the D500's AF & buffer performance.

whatever the latest Fujifilm camera is.

Well,the latest Fuji is called the X-H2s and here's a link to what it does,Check out the buffer.


Fujifilm X-H2S Review

[kayasaman]

Don't rule out a monopod and tilt head setup, either. I have a pretty nice gimbal and heavy duty tripod, but find myself using the monopod with RRS MH01 much more often with my big lenses.

Thanks wadge22!! My tripod converts to a monopod (clever German engineering haha), just remove the legs and install one of them into the center socket on the reverse of the base.

Not sure what you mean by tilt head?? I have a Gitzo 3-way head which I use more then the ball head I have. I was recommended the 3-way for astro so it's what I've been using mostly and like the way it works over the ball.

---------- Post added 06-28-22 at 03:20 PM ----------

You should have no problem with aircraft, which fly on a predictable path. I used both an old K50 and a somewhat newer K70 with a DA*200 and *300 for big airshows. Results were fantastic with both cameras.

Technique is probably more important than the camera used. I'm sure you'll enjoy your D500.

Yeah aircraft... :-)

K1 ii and FA*300 with AF fine adjustment dialed over to -10 (for accuracy) - sure the lens is a little short and no polarizer makes the shots a little hazy:

_IMG0514.jpg - Google Drive

_IMG0268.jpg - Google Drive

_IMG0804.jpg - Google Drive

_IMG9458.jpg - Google Drive


It works!! The shot accuracy has improved greatly after dialing back the AF fine adjust. I used a little dehazing in RawTherapee to clear them up and have also cleaned my sensor in the meantime which was covered in particles.

[wadge22]

Not sure what you mean by tilt head??

It's a compact head that only tilts. They are really specifically suited for monopods, and even more useful when combined with a lens with a tripod collar that allows for rotation, which the Sigma 60-600 looks like it does.

Here's a link that talks about them. Note he gives the nod to a side mount "monogimbal" one, which I have no experience with and it seems slightly different.

This video (I wish I knew how to link to Youtube videos without embedding them) really does a great job of showing how nice they are with a big lens. If I were doing it again, I might go for that Promediagear model, as it has the knob in an interesting spot that looks pretty good, but I'm happy with the RRS one I found used on ebay, and I use it all the time.

You Tube

You Tube

---

Last edited by wadge22; 06-28-2022 at 03:36 PM.

[kayasaman]

It's a compact head that only tilts. They are really specifically suited for monopods, and even more useful when combined with a lens with a tripod collar that allows for rotation, which the Sigma 60-600 looks like it does.

Here's a link that talks about them. Note he gives the nod to a side mount "monogimbal" one, which I have no experience with and it seems slightly different.

This video (I wish I knew how to link to Youtube videos without embedding them) really does a great job of showing how nice they are with a big lens. If I were doing it again, I might go for that Promediagear model, as it has the nob in an interesting spot that looks pretty good, but I'm happy with the RRS one I found used on ebay, and I use it all the time.
Here

That looks really interesting!

Monopod - yeah great, now I have to learn how to run around a stick hahaha - I'm thinking of some kind of game that kids play doing that but can't quite put my tongue on what it was called :-)


Yep the Sigma definitely has a tripod shoe which isn't removable though it does click at every 90 degrees ;-)


So, another thing that I will need to try and see if I can work with or not.

[gatorguy]

It's a compact head that only tilts. They are really specifically suited for monopods, and even more useful when combined with a lens with a tripod collar that allows for rotation, which the Sigma 60-600 looks like it does.

Here's a link that talks about them. Note he gives the nod to a side mount "monogimbal" one, which I have no experience with and it seems slightly different.

That "monogimbel" one is great! It's from Wimberley and it's the one I use with my K3III and DFA 150-450. Bonus! It's also a very comfortable carry with a heavy lens on camera compared to a tilthead.

[surfar]

[/COLOR]

Sigma 60-600mm Sports

Carefully consider,PRICE(plenty of good used ones with "low mileage")...,weight....D500 isnt light.

Range?Will you use 60-150 much?...Ive the 50-500 Sigma K mount which I cant remember using in the wider FocalLengths.Assuming a new purchase is 60-150 worth the U$1100?

Here's a comparison of 2 different Sigmas.

Youtu.be

Youtu.be

---

Last edited by surfar; 06-28-2022 at 04:03 PM.

[kayasaman]

The D500 is lighter then my K1. I agree that it's not as light as the latest mirrorless cameras or even the micro 4/3's cameras.

I read reviews about both Sigma 150-600 and 60-600, also the Tamron 150-600. From the reviews I read, people claimed the Tamron had better AF then the equivalent Sigma and was lighter (mainly plastic) and cheaper then the Sigma. I also read that the 60-600mm had better build quality then the 150-600 Sigma and better optics and was lighter.

Sure there is around a $750 price difference locally, will I need the 60mm end? That's a good question! 60x1.5=90mm - how often do I use my Pentax DFA28-105mm (hardly) ; reason: the focal length doesn't cover what I need.


I'll need to think about that one, but I guess it's there if you need it. Maybe more so to get 150mm on APS-C which is at 100mm in FF format. There maybe situations when it is needed and I always think it's better to have something then not though in case is it worth the extra $$$ overhead? Something to take in to consideration...

---------- Post added 06-28-22 at 04:24 PM ----------

The D500 is lighter then my K1. I agree that it's not as light as the latest mirrorless cameras or even the micro 4/3's cameras.

I read reviews about both Sigma 150-600 and 60-600, also the Tamron 150-600. From the reviews I read, people claimed the Tamron had better AF then the equivalent Sigma and was lighter (mainly plastic) and cheaper then the Sigma. I also read that the 60-600mm had better build quality then the 150-600 Sigma and better optics and was lighter.

Sure there is around a $750 price difference locally, will I need the 60mm end? That's a good question! 60x1.5=90mm - how often do I use my Pentax DFA28-105mm (hardly) ; reason: the focal length doesn't cover what I need.


I'll need to think about that one, but I guess it's there if you need it. Maybe more so to get 150mm on APS-C which is at 100mm in FF format. There maybe situations when it is needed and I always think it's better to have something then not though in case is it worth the extra $$$ overhead? Something to take in to consideration...

Hmmm.... my memory seems warped or the review that I read was simply misleading. The 60-600 is heavier then the 150-600?? Sheesh I'm lost now lol lucky I saved all the links as I'm giving myself wrong information hahaha oh dear

Oops nevermind, it is a comparison between Contemporary and Sports. I missed that!

The Sports line is weather sealed and build is better which it more attractive to me for the record.

[surfar]

Contemporary and Sports.

Contemporary has some WR but Sports has full on AW level sealing.

Theres a C model 150/600 and a sports model which is 3.25 kgs...its a Bazooka and feels like its loaded(I own it).

Then the more modern 60-600,there doesn't seem to be THAT much difference in IQ...they are all quite good.

The 60/600 is more versatile and as you say, if its there,it will ,at times get used.

---------- Post added 06-29-22 at 01:53 PM ----------

a follow up.

Youtu.be

Youtu.be

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

Guys,

I just found a brand new D500 off Ebay. It's from a large retailer, it was in the Clearance part of the store as they claim it has box damage but is brand new. They do give 30 days return and 12 months guarantee with it and it was at a reduced price.

Placed the order already!




I was leaning on the Canon R7 but wasn't sure, mainly as the D500 is based on the D5 and I have no idea what the R7 is based on. They were both at the same price and my gut told me to go for something tried and tested. If I was able to find a mirrorless APS-C camera in Pro body I probably would have been more enthusiastic but at this stage the good news is that I don't need adapters to fit the lenses I've already selected or need to find different lenses.

You cannot go wrong with the D500, while I have briefly played with the D500 with the nikon 200-400 F4 and the sigma 150-600 sport there is much improvement over the earlier D800, D810 ,D4, and D4s with regard to AF performance.

Areas that the D500 excel at is a much better AF sensor along with more customizable setting to further enhance the ability to track subjects. I know from years of use with the D800, D810 and the D4 when setup it is really easy to just hand off the AF to the camera and it has a nearly 90% hit rate and when I say 90% if I have set the camera to AF on the eye or head of the bird that it is what the camera has focused on and only happy if it focused on that.

Very useful features you should look at with the D500 is 3D AF this is where you place the AF point over what you want the camera to focus on and then once selected it follow that subject to a T as it move around the frame.

While I would say that the sigma sport is not the best for AF performance if you look at the Nikon lineup however it is adequate for most situations, I know with the D4 and the D810 there was a much better improvement with the lens over the D800. While I am not able to photograph a car traveling at 100kmp and expect it to have AF performance of nailing that car at 7- 10 meters at a FL of 300mm head on every time, it can hold its own for about everything else.

With macro 99% of my work is all done using AF and relying on the AF to predicting my movement handheld for get the shot, with no need for a tripod or rail


---------- Post added 06-28-2022 at 08:42 PM ----------

Then the more modern 60-600,there doesn't seem to be THAT much difference in IQ...they are all quite good.

The 60/600 is more versatile and as you say, if its there,it will ,at times get used.

I think that the Bokeh from the 150-600 sport is better at 600 while the 60-600 at 600 is a little bit sharper

[biz-engineer]

I also studied engineering and have been involved with it for a long time that's why I agree that advice based on emotion is not a solid form.

This issue is not an issue when advice is provided as emotion, the issue I see is when the reality facts are intentionally distorted and selected to make one option look better than another. I wondered for myself what was the liability of people who gave me wrong advice via anonymous internet account.

[kayasaman]

You cannot go wrong with the D500, while I have briefly played with the D500 with the nikon 200-400 F4 and the sigma 150-600 sport there is much improvement over the earlier D800, D810 ,D4, and D4s with regard to AF performance.

Areas that the D500 excel at is a much better AF sensor along with more customizable setting to further enhance the ability to track subjects. I know from years of use with the D800, D810 and the D4 when setup it is really easy to just hand off the AF to the camera and it has a nearly 90% hit rate and when I say 90% if I have set the camera to AF on the eye or head of the bird that it is what the camera has focused on and only happy if it focused on that.

Very useful features you should look at with the D500 is 3D AF this is where you place the AF point over what you want the camera to focus on and then once selected it follow that subject to a T as it move around the frame.

While I would say that the sigma sport is not the best for AF performance if you look at the Nikon lineup however it is adequate for most situations, I know with the D4 and the D810 there was a much better improvement with the lens over the D800. While I am not able to photograph a car traveling at 100kmp and expect it to have AF performance of nailing that car at 7- 10 meters at a FL of 300mm head on every time, it can hold its own for about everything else.

With macro 99% of my work is all done using AF and relying on the AF to predicting my movement handheld for get the shot, with no need for a tripod or rail


---------- Post added 06-28-2022 at 08:42 PM ----------



I think that the Bokeh from the 150-600 sport is better at 600 while the 60-600 at 600 is a little bit sharper

Hi Ian,

thanks for providing so many amazing images last time. I think you used the D810 for those. That really showed me what I am missing and additionally your advice on the D500 was the key. It is I think better to see real-world examples especially when informed people are showing them. The experience and knowledge gained over time will definitely be brought out, rather then someone who is clueless and doesn't understand how to make things work properly.

Many thanks again Ian for the support!!!:-D


I guess you are raising some good issues here. Tele zoom comparison.... though I think I made the right choice based on versatility with the 60-600mm Sigma. The Nikon 200-500 doesn't have quite the range or top end reach. It might have many advantages optically and for AF, I can't say but it would have been nice if there was more reach and top end in the lens.


Macro.... this is interesting!! For me currently what's confusing is that everyone says that macro should be done using MF. Fine, for static subjects where you have time to set things up, it is not a problem. When things move then things become much more difficult.

As such I was looking at the Venus Lens Laowa 100mm and 25mm macro lenses to use with the D500. No MF unfortunately but they do have the advantage of 2:1+ magnification ratio. Currently I have been trying to shoot bugs in flight using my K1 and Irix 150mm. Out of many attempts I got lucky once and nailed a great image. Sure AF would help a lot here but outside of the Nikon Micro range what other lenses have good and fast AF? The Tokina lenses are great optically but seem to use the old screwdrive AF system which I know from my FA*300 is a little clunky.
What do you suggest here??

---------- Post added 06-29-22 at 03:44 AM ----------

This issue is not an issue when advice is provided as emotion, the issue I see is when the reality facts are intentionally distorted and selected to make one option look better than another. I wondered for myself what was the liability of people who gave me wrong advice via anonymous internet account.

It happens all over the place....

It even happened to me where I buy my camera equipment from which is a large dedicated store. I was told to use the Pentax version of the JJC intervalometer cable. After checking the manufacturer website, they said that it wasn't compatible with the K1 and any Pentax camera with the smaller version of jack input.

I think they said that Pentax shares the same jack type as Canon cameras so that's the cable I bought and it works fine now.

Whatever advice is given, the trick is to always research and study up on things yourself to get an informed idea (as in general idea) of the situation. ;-)

[UncleVanya]

I’m happy the op found a d500 and is going to be able to enjoy the camera. The Sony options that exist that work well with bird in flight are very expensive and I have no doubt the d500 is a great bargain comparatively. While Nikon F mount lenses are mostly discontinued the availability remains high. I look forward to seeing some results.

[kayasaman]

I’m happy the op found a d500 and is going to be able to enjoy the camera. The Sony options that exist that work well with bird in flight are very expensive and I have no doubt the d500 is a great bargain comparatively. While Nikon F mount lenses are mostly discontinued the availability remains high. I look forward to seeing some results.

UncleVanya, sure Nikon, Canon, and Sony have very expensive bodies in both mirrorless and mirrored formats. These are all full frame models however and my thought was that I already have the K1 ii for that.

After Ian gave some really great advice in my last post about what to do and where to go, I started looking at the D500 more seriously. Originally I had planned to look at a used D4S but somethings were pointed out in favor of the APS-C sensor size.

After all, the D500 is a Pro camera in a 'compact' body with the same AF system and sharing many other features of the D5.


When it comes down to use case I originally bought my K1 for astro and landscape work. The AstroTracer functionality is great! At this time I didn't know or understand about more in depth astro equipment or anything about processes involved etc... as a result the K1 has taught me a lot and it is really is a powerful imaging tool.

If I start talking about camera brands like ZWO and Moravian Instruments, we are getting into non-linear photography that is more about science then simplistically put, going somewhere getting inspired and shooting a subject. It really is a world in its own right as there many wavelengths that standard cameras are unable to capture. One reason is the IR and UV cut filters installed directly on the sensors. Sensor design is also important as in CMOS or CCD, monochrome or beyer matrix (eg. color).

More information can be found here:

Multiwavelength Astronomy - Introduction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_spectroscopy


Using these specialist tools, one can easily splash hundreds of thousands of $'s, for example the 10Micron tracking mounts start at anywhere between $12k and 15k.


Yep the good ol' K1 taught me about this and so much more!! :-D


Of course what I did not consider before the purchase of the K1 was wildlife or any type of action at all. That came about recently after seeing images and postings from friends around the world who have interests in birds and other types of animal. Even at the macro scale things are pretty interesting!

Initially, sure I wanted to work with the K1. I tried hard and asked a lot of questions. It is an area which I have no experience or knowledge in. Stumbling upon a few macro videos on Youtube for example, it became apparent that I was using an incorrect technique to start with. Hold camera then adjust focus ring until subject is in focus.... try doing that on a bee that hops from flower to flower... aint happening :-/

But** as shown, find a focus setting that works for your insect, first observe and analyze the behavior. 1:1 mode may not be suitable for skittish bugs, so instead try 1:14 or 1.25 and move the camera in and out until in-focus. Sure the hit rate increased in leaps and bounds though I still need way more practice.


The extra reach of APS-C and lower weight will definitely help in many areas.


The main point though as after creating my previous thread I had thoroughly researched what I needed for a system built around the D500. I had selected and chosen the lenses already and defined use-cases for each. It simply boiled down to only needing 4 lenses as the K1 would take over with the rest.

After not finding the D500 available new, sure that completely threw me off and trying to find equivalent lenses for my now defined lens / usecase set became a headache.


For a mirrorless system for example, no one has an 18-300mm walkabout lens. It is not obvious yet if any of the Laowa macro lenses will work on the APS-C R system of Canon though FF is supported. Adapters are needed for the Sigma.

Too much over complexity at the moment with that. Once things mature then sure there maybe these lenses available but for now the list of compromises was too great.


That's how I was thinking about things in any case.... think I'll go and create a 500px account now and start playing around there. Hopefully over time it will grow with nice in-focus images :-)

[UncleVanya]

For a mirrorless system for example, no one has an 18-300mm walkabout lens.

The 18-300 range does exist in mirrorless systems (Tamron 18-300 VXD) but only for crop sensors. Systems with ff sensors of 50mp or higher will provide 21mp in crop mode - but it is not very efficient to use a ff in crop mode all the time so this is only useful if there are additional ff uses needed. I’m not aware of any full frame 28-400 (This is roughly the same angle of view coverage on ff as the 18-300 on apsc) even for dslr systems. Clearly the 18-300 on apsc offers a huge flexibility, however, typically there are a lot of compromises made optically in lenses with this range.