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01-08-2023, 12:32 PM   #31
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I was in the park yesterday for some comparison photos....






K-1, 36 MB/FF, Lumix ZS100 1inch sensor 20 MB, iPhone 14 pro, main camera, 48 MB,

At this size I don't really have a preference, the iPhone will definitely give you the best image printed large.

Also, I tried it out on a moose.....


01-08-2023, 01:05 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
At this size I don't really have a preference, the iPhone will definitely give you the best image printed large.
On my display, 4K, the iPhone image is better than ZS100, but significantly behind K1 image.
01-08-2023, 03:37 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
On my display, 4K, the iPhone image is better than ZS100, but significantly behind K1 image.
I agree. the K1 image is significantly more detailed than the iPhone's ProRaw. Look towards the base of the sparse needleless pine on the left, second tree. The iPhone's "machine-learning" simply filled in the open areas with a bit of muddiness, making the assumption it should have been more solid.

While it can definitely produce amazing images from a smartphone it doesn't always make the correct processing decisions. The good thing is that software and AI decisions can continue to improve. Currently, it seems like it's overdoing things, and that's not based solely on Norm's images.

They're great tools to have but 48mb from a smartphone won't trump 36 from a K1. ProRaw is not strictly raw. They're processed to appear more similar to what a full-frame camera would be expected to capture. Quoting Apple: "Apple ProRAW combines the information of a standard RAW format along with iPhone image processing"

Last edited by gatorguy; 01-08-2023 at 04:44 PM.
01-09-2023, 07:17 AM   #34
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The comparison is made more problematic because what the two companies call 24mm equivalent is very different.

In processing, the K-1 files required more work to rescue the shadows, The Apple was not as dark and easier to get right.
My initial shot the was supposed to be 48 MP on the iPhone was only 12 MP on checking the data. Which to me makes the iPhone image even more surprising. I did some more work on the k-1 and Apple images... cleaned them up, made them look more like each other. One note, it was much easier to lift the Apple shadows than the K-1 shadows. These images have with no post processing sharpening or noise reduction. I did alter colour , shadows etc. to make them look as similar as possible.

12MP Apple (with bining, combining 4 pixels into one) ) against 36 MP K-1





I can find areas where both are better than the other, to me it' saw off, but, next time I'll be sure to pay attentions and force 48 MP on the Apple..

To the left of the tall tree, in the distant background, I see the Apple image has bit more detail, but I didn't take the K-1 as far as I could in terms of DoF. A smaller aperture might have resulted in better result. Unfortunately, we've lost our sun..so no more comparisons today, maybe tomorrow.

The key part of the image is the central rock and birch trees. For that part the Apple may be bit better, but in a way that might be correctable in post processing. The big take away for me, is that there is no clear winner. It took time to match the Pentax reds in the dead tree in the left of then image, it was tough to get the Pentax shadow detail to match in the rocks. Each presented its own special problems in the search to even things up... like the final image, a saw off as to which was better.

But it's still pretty impressive when comparing a 12 MP cell phone image to a 36 MP FF image. Mind boggling really. Who'd of thunk it?

The original images would have been processed in Topaz sharpening AI. These are unsharpened, straight out of Apple Photo.


Last edited by normhead; 01-09-2023 at 09:14 AM.
01-09-2023, 09:04 AM   #35
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K1 image require correction for the lens, the blue channel is completely skewed.
01-09-2023, 09:14 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
K1 image require correction for the lens, the blue channel is completely skewed.
I did nothing intentionally to skew the blue channel...but I did try to match the colours in the rocks and the one red tree. You gotta do what you gotta do.

I'm just trying to get them to have similar looks. However your point about the lens, may be true...it was little soft, but in any case... 12 MP against 36 MP? You'd expect a beat down, it didn't happen. It was certainly a beat down with the ZS100. In terms of matching the other images, I felt like I had no hope, nothing to work with.

Last edited by normhead; 01-09-2023 at 09:20 AM.
01-09-2023, 09:25 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
However your point about the lens, may be true...it was little soft, but in any case...
The lens use on K1 is not soft, it has a lot of CA at f/4, without CA correction on the RAW file the sharpness of the lens is completely ruined, and this has nothing to do with color matching.

01-09-2023, 09:40 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The lens use on K1 is not soft, it has a lot of CA at f/4, without CA correction on the RAW file the sharpness of the lens is completely ruined, and this has nothing to do with color matching.
I'd be interested in seeing what you think is CA. Honestly, I never do CA correction unless there is visible CA, I'm not seeing it. But, the f4 is problematic, it should have been ƒ8 or ƒ11. As for the completely ruined thing... we'll just have to differ. These images viewed at full size are 1:1, each pixel on the original image is one pixel on your screen. Looking at the birches, I'm not seeing CA. Which is why I'm asking where you are seeing it.

The focus point is on the trees and the rocks... that's where I did most of my comparison. I'm not sure how good my Sigma 24mm is, but I don't have Pentax 24mm.

Last edited by normhead; 01-09-2023 at 09:46 AM.
01-09-2023, 09:45 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I'd be interested in seeing what you think is CA. Honestly, I never do CA correction unless there is visible CA, I'm not seeing it
You don't see the blue fringe on tree tops, top right corner of the image?
01-09-2023, 10:12 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
You don't see the blue fringe on tree tops, top right corner of the image?
Biz, I think Norm's point, and it's a valid one, is that for the use-case his iPhone 14 Pro is absolutely acceptable. Of course the K1 would be expected to deliver a better quality image and does, but the fact there's even a discussion about it is evidence that smartphone cameras have come a long way.

Norm, the time you put into this is appreciated. You've added a good tool to the bag.
01-09-2023, 11:13 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
You don't see the blue fringe on tree tops, top right corner of the image?
Ya, I see it now, that's correctable if necessary.

But you really have to look for it. Most of my images don't need that kind of detail. In the full size image it's not visible.



As noted, I'll continue to use my K-1 for potentially awesome landscapes, but for day to day shooting this is fine. MY K-1 may end up being the camera I use on tripod wfor max quality with the iPhone taking over for hand held no macro or telephoto work.And if I ended up printing this, I won't suffer much. Purple fringing tends to be an angle to the sun issue, you can force purple fringing on almost any lens, and this was a real tough angle to the sun. Many of my lenses produce purple fringing in the right circumstances, that's neither here nor there when comparing cameras.

I will test with the iPhone in 48mm mode probably tomorrow if the sun really arrives, as promised on the weather network. But, 36 MP on the K-1 is. I've learned how to force it to 48 MP when it wants house bining.

The Apple 48 K is 8000 pixels wide, a K-1 is 7300. An additional 12 MP isn't what it used to be. That's not a lot of room for lw/ph growth.

Last edited by normhead; 01-09-2023 at 07:04 PM.
01-09-2023, 11:21 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
Biz, I think Norm's point, and it's a valid one, is that for the use-case his iPhone 14 Pro is absolutely acceptable.
Sure. I would be interested how iPhone14 camera compares to a Ricoh GR III, since the lens on GR III isn't interchangeable.

---------- Post added 10-01-23 at 07:41 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
The Apple 48 K is 8000 pixels wide, a K-1 is 7300. An additional 12 MP isn't what it used to be. That's not a lot of room for lw/ph growth.
This article may interest you as well: Smartphones vs Cameras: Closing the gap on image quality - DXOMARK
01-10-2023, 05:10 AM   #43
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I can have an image stitched automatically when panning my Android phone and it delivers a high megapixels image.
Have you tried real-time image stitching with iphone 14 ? Provided you have more than one lens, should give you a high definition landscape image.

I've installed a panorama stitching app on my Android phone, coupled with Image Sync, I shoot panos with the K1 raw on SD1 + jpeg XS on SD2, upload XS Jpegs to my phone via Image Sync, then quick stitch performed by the Pano apps on Android, so that I can quickly preview what the panorama will look like (composition). I can shoot more frames to complete or change the composition if necessary, so that when back home I download raw files and do the processing on PC , I get 300Mpixels panos, as I previewed in the field on my phone. The smartphone is great add-on to the camera.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 01-10-2023 at 05:17 AM.
01-10-2023, 03:16 PM   #44
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No need to install stitching on the 14, it's on the menu, haven't tried it yet....
From today's test, my K-1 and sigma 24 don't like each other, I may have to adjust the lens. Todays' result was brutal....
However the iPhone took the best image I've ever taken from the ridge in terms of sharpness and clarity. There was nothing left for Topaz to do. No lack of sharpness or noise, no doubt due too in camera processing.
1:1 display at 4k


Full image...


If you're happy with being confined to 24mm this is an awesome camera. It's good at 14-235mm but at 12 MP its bit light on the number of pixels, requiring perfect framing, crop room for 4 k is at a premium. Still there's never been a 14-235mm DSLR that fits in your shirt pocket without a bulge so really, nothing to compare to.

Last edited by normhead; 01-11-2023 at 06:38 AM.
01-11-2023, 08:56 AM   #45
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The video is very good.
https://live.staticflickr.com/video/52621459200/0391d8da58/360p.mp4?s=eyJpIj...ZjUiLCJ2IjoxfQ

It's amazing how easy it is with that big screen, and how much more you can anticipate, with a bigger screen

Last edited by normhead; 01-11-2023 at 06:09 PM.
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