[reh321]

I’d suggest the friend visit a real camera store (if possible) and waste some salesman’s time trying various cameras to see what he feels drawn to. There are no bad cameras any more, but I’d suggest ignoring Canon since they’ve blocked 3rd-party lenses - I’d want the choice. Just remember he doesn’t have to buy on the day.

I am surprised at the number of Pentaxians who are offended by Canon’s policies. Canon is not like Pentax in issuing one new lens every year or so. Since 198?, every lens of theirs - at all price levels - has been the equivalent of a KAF4 lens. We value ‘choice’ because our only choice is less old and very old. With Canon, there is typically only one new lens of each focal length - that is true - but that is all you need. With Canon, one can choose between a EF-mount lens and a R-mount lens, and then you are set. On the other hand, some Nikon lenses - I don’t know the exact count - issued since 198? - are incompatible with their ATF adapter. You have to recite rules that sound like ‘Old MacDonald’ to me - “AI, AI, No?” - to figure out which they are, and Sony is still figuring out that a camera body is not like a PlayStation.

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Last edited by reh321; 02-02-2023 at 07:31 AM.

[UncleVanya]

We value ‘choice’ because our only choice is less old and very old. With Canon, there is typically only one new lens of each focal length - that is true - but that is all you need.

This isn’t the reason we value choice. Also I’ve shot a lot of different systems, and while my bias was to first party lenses in the distant past, over time I’ve learned the value of diversity in lenses. Take Sony, they have recently released a number of GM II Version lenses. These lenses came about due to market pressures pushing them to respond by redesigning to be both lighter and sharper! Third party options in e-mount have pushed the boundaries far being what a single manufacturer has been able to produce - even a large output vendor like Sony.

M43 is another area where diversity of choice is embarrassingly good. That system was one of my favorites for years. I only sold off my five bodies in the past year. My lens stable for m43 included Sigma, Panasonic, Olympus, and several adapted lenses.

I think you’re allowing your own views to blind you as to why a lack of third party isn’t good for the photographer. If anything being a Pentax user means accepting limited new third party - which stinks - but understanding the lack isn’t driven by policy but by market share and a move away from dslr designs by third party designers.

[Serkevan]

Fact 1: Canon doesn't allow 3rd party lenses today.

Just as a slight correction: Canon doesn't allow RF-mount autofocus lenses (because, AFAIK, their IP protection is focused on the RF data protocols). Laowa makes several of their manual lenses in RF mount, for example.

---------- Post added 02-02-23 at 07:56 AM ----------

I am surprised at the number of Pentaxians who are offended by Canon’s policies. Canon is not like Pentax in issuing one new lens every year or so. Since 198?, every lens of theirs - at all price levels - has been the equivalent of a KAF4 lens. We value ‘choice’ because our only choice is less old and very old. With Canon, there is typically only one new lens of each focal length - that is true - but that is all you need. With Canon, one can choose between a EF-mount lens and a R-mount lens, and then you are set. On the other hand, some Nikon lenses - I don’t know the exact count - issued since 198? - are incompatible with their ATF adapter. You have to recite rules that sound like ‘Old MacDonald’ to me - “AI, AI, No?” - to figure out which they are, and Sony is still figuring out that a camera body is not like a PlayStation.

With Canon in APS-C land you can choose between 78 variations of a standard zoom and 3 primes.

---------- Post added 02-02-23 at 08:00 AM ----------

These lenses came about due to market pressures pushing them to respond by redesigning to be both lighter and sharper! Third party options in e-mount have pushed the boundaries far being what a single manufacturer has been able to produce - even a large output vendor like Sony.

Tamron has been a blessing to Sony users everywhere. TBH it's the only reason I'd ever consider shooting Sony lol. That 35-150 f/2-2.8 is a chunk but it's also THE only chunk needed in many situations. Just couple it with the 17-28 (also Tammy, go figure) and you're set for any trip...

EDIT: I am fully aware that modern high-quality third party options are... kinda nonexistent for Pentax. I don't mind much - the lens lineup woes are generally a bit overstated, and in any case I chose the system based on what was available, not on what was to come. But if I see ANOTHER Sigma 100-300/4 for sale in Canikon mount for 300€ when the cheapest I've seen for PK is 650€, I'll seriously consider buying an used 7D just out of spite.

[UncleVanya]

Just as a slight correction: Canon doesn't allow RF-mount autofocus lenses (because, AFAIK, their IP protection is focused on the RF data protocols). Laowa makes several of their manual lenses in RF mount, for example.

---------- Post added 02-02-23 at 07:56 AM ----------



With Canon in APS-C land you can choose between 78 variations of a standard zoom and 3 primes.

---------- Post added 02-02-23 at 08:00 AM ----------



Tamron has been a blessing to Sony users everywhere. TBH it's the only reason I'd ever consider shooting Sony lol. That 35-150 f/2-2.8 is a chunk but it's also THE only chunk needed in many situations. Just couple it with the 17-28 (also Tammy, go figure) and you're set for any trip...

EDIT: I am fully aware that modern high-quality third party options are... kinda nonexistent for Pentax. I don't mind much - the lens lineup woes are generally a bit overstated, and in any case I chose the system based on what was available, not on what was to come. But if I see ANOTHER Sigma 100-300/4 for sale in Canikon mount for 300€ when the cheapest I've seen for PK is 650€, I'll seriously consider buying an used 7D just out of spite.

All good points. This article suggests the ban may partially lift in 2024: We Won?t See Third-Party RF-Mount Lenses ?Until Late 2024?*

However sources aren’t cited.

[luftfluss]

With Canon in APS-C land you can choose between 78 variations of a standard zoom and 3 primes.

[reh321]

This isn’t the reason we value choice. Also I’ve shot a lot of different systems, and while my bias was to first party lenses in the distant past, over time I’ve learned the value of diversity in lenses. Take Sony, they have recently released a number of GM II Version lenses. These lenses came about due to market pressures pushing them to respond by redesigning to be both lighter and sharper! Third party options in e-mount have pushed the boundaries far being what a single manufacturer has been able to produce - even a large output vendor like Sony.

M43 is another area where diversity of choice is embarrassingly good. That system was one of my favorites for years. I only sold off my five bodies in the past year. My lens stable for m43 included Sigma, Panasonic, Olympus, and several adapted lenses.

I think you’re allowing your own views to blind you as to why a lack of third party isn’t good for the photographer. If anything being a Pentax user means accepting limited new third party - which stinks - but understanding the lack isn’t driven by policy but by market share and a move away from dslr designs by third party designers.

The only choice offered to lower-tier users by Pentax is color.
To me, that is a strange choice.
With Canon, I had a EF-mount {Canon} 75-300mm lens, which I hear from Canon users is one of the worst of their lenses …. but it worked fine for me.
When I first came back to Pentax, I got a 70-300mm Sigma lens {which was screw-driven}, and the K-30 could focus with it.
Later I got Pentax 55-300mm lens which was also screw-driven.
All along, on birding walks, my wife complained about the noise from my lenses focusing.
Finally I got a KP, and the KAF4 55-300mm.

I’m not saying that he should express my biases. It would be OK if he tells both sides of the story - the history of Canon lens mounts, the confusion of Nikon lenses, issues of Sony bodies, and the issues of MFT cameras, and let the purchaser decide for himself.

[StiffLegged]

I am surprised at the number of Pentaxians who are offended by Canon’s policies…

Can’t speak for other Pentaxians, but there’s no offence here, just disappointment.

[reh321]

With Canon in APS-C land you can choose between 78 variations of a standard zoom and 3 primes.

When I was a Pentax film shooter, I did use prime lenses, but then when I switched to Canon I learned the value of zooms. Now, all the DA lenses I’ve purchased are zoom. There are things to learn ‘from the other side’.

[Serkevan]

When I was a Pentax film shooter, I did use prime lenses, but then when I switched to Canon I learned the value of zooms. Now, all the DA lenses I’ve purchased are zoom. There are things to learn ‘from the other side’.

Yeah, but there isn't a single APS-C zoom in Canon land that isn't available in Pentax. Can't say the same in the other direction.

Well, I guess the 12-24 is now discontinued.

[gatorguy]

Moderator Note; Could we try and avoid getting bogged in discussion of Canon lenses?

[KiloHotelphoto]

Sony does limit functions on third party lenses, I know the A1 limits fps and I think something with autofocus with video.

Canon does have RF lenses from 5mm to 1200mm plus all the old EF glass so there really isn't anything missing. I wish they would make a 400-600mm F4 with built in 1.4tc, I would pre order that in a heartbeat.

[lesmore49]

I’d suggest the friend visit a real camera store (if possible) and waste some salesman’s time trying various cameras to see what he feels drawn to. There are no bad cameras any more, but I’d suggest ignoring Canon since they’ve blocked 3rd-party lenses - I’d want the choice. Just remember he doesn’t have to buy on the day.

What I plan to do, is first, have my young relatives try out my K5 with my 16-45 and 55 -300 mm lenses, to give them a sense of a basic kit with a good ASP-C camera body, such as my trusty old K-5.

Then I will spend some time with them, unveiling the basic mysteries of 'good' cameras/photography , and also try to pair lens...generally...with the photos they want to take. I will also talk about budget and what options are available within that budget.

Then go down to the local camera store, as you suggest. Our local (camera store, not pub as for you Brits ) has Nikon, Canon, Fuji, Sony, etc. mirrorless, and they usually have sample cameras and lenses that can be tried out in the store, for ergonomic feel, handling, etc.

Think this is a fairly good plan, but as always I'm open to other suggestions.

[lesmore49]

As the OP, I've always found that if I want to get the low down and best information on camera (all makes) equipment/ photographic methods, etc....the best source over the years has been and continues to be, the Pentax Forum .

A general thanks to participants in this thread.

As a result of the info, I will talk to my young relative about mirrorless options, and there are many, including Nikon, Sony, Canon, Fuji..to name the ones that come to mind.

I have checked our local camera store, and there are some pretty fair deals on equipment. With my new found mirrorless knowledge (courtesy of Pentaxians) I feel well equipped to guide him towards a system that will work well .

If you think of anything else, regarding this thread, please do not hesitate to post. Thanks.

[zapp]

As the OP, I've always found that if I want to get the low down and best information on camera (all makes) equipment/ photographic methods, etc....the best source over the years has been and continues to be, the Pentax Forum .

A general thanks to participants in this thread.

As a result of the info, I will talk to my young relative about mirrorless options, and there are many, including Nikon, Sony, Canon, Fuji..to name the ones that come to mind.

I have checked our local camera store, and there are some pretty fair deals on equipment. With my new found mirrorless knowledge (courtesy of Pentaxians) I feel well equipped to guide him towards a system that will work well .

If you think of anything else, regarding this thread, please do not hesitate to post. Thanks.

Not sure whether someone mentioned this before. If you keep Pentax or you are coming from Pentax, keep in mind that some brands rotate in the other direction. Give me a Nikon lens and I have trouble attaching the rear lid, mounting the lens to the camera or turning the focus ring in the right direction. Some third party lenses are also designed with Nikon direction in mind. This was worse during manual focus days, but still is an issue for me.

[gatorguy]

Not sure whether someone mentioned this before. If you keep Pentax or you are coming from Pentax, keep in mind that some brands rotate in the other direction. Give me a Nikon lens and I have trouble attaching the rear lid, mounting the lens to the camera or turning the focus ring in the right direction. Some third party lenses are also designed with Nikon direction in mind. This was worse during manual focus days, but still is an issue for me.

I'm with ya, sometimes switching to a Nikon, which is awkward for me. I might/might not remember to turn the lens the correct way, but ALWAYS get the lens cap wrong on the first try.

The lens release is on the "wrong" side on a Nikon as well, so no one-handed lens changes like on a Pentax.