[lesmore49]

A close relative is looking at getting a good camera system...interchangeable lenses, availability of accessories that he can build up his camera system as time goes on.

I'm a Pentax guy, have been since 1968, when I got my first good camera, a Pentax S1a. Still have it, still use it, but have also accumulated a lot of Pentax equipment over the years. Digital included....K1, K5, Km, K10d, Ricoh GR ll...plus lots of lenses. I'm going to stay with Pentax.

But this isn't about me. It's about someone who is interested in entering involved amateur photography.

I'm looking for suggestions, advice as to what to get. I realize mirrorless seems to be where the industry is at this point so I was going to recommend entry level, interchangeable lens ability, mirrorless.

I'm looking at a system that will hopefully be around for a number of years, to avoid getting a company that may switch to another non compatible system...which would leave the purchaser...down the road...with an orphan system.

I know, good luck, who knows, who can predict, etc.

I'm looking at recommending a system that is very good quality, and that would probably initially be ASP-C sized sensor, with a possibility of eventually going to a full framed sensor...and the possibility of being able to use lenses, etc...with either system. Don't know if that exists. And who knows, if they are content to stick to just ASP-C...well that is ok too.

Probably an initial budget would be in the ballpark of $ 1500-1750 USD. I was thinking of suggesting to him, getting one body, with a wide angle to normal zoom and a normal to telephoto...say around 55-300, 55-250mm or so.

Just general zoom ranges...but something that would cover moderate wide angle, moderate normal to moderate telephoto.

Possibly the addition of a moderate flash, if it would make it in the budget.

The mirrorless makes I'm looking at, to recommend would include Nikon, Canon, Sony and Fuji. So if you could give me your ideas on the pluses/minuses of these mirrorless entry level, systems, it would be much appreciated.

In my opinion, as far as survivability is concerned, Canon is here to stay, probably Nikon, I think Fuji could be around for years...possibly Sony, unless the novelty wears off for them.

Canon has changed lens mounts over the years. I have a Canon F-1 with it's FD mount. I know, I know, the FD mount was a long time ago.


Me, I'm a confirmed DSLR photographer, and confirmed Pentax owner/user. Again it is not about me, I'm an old, grizzled guy. it is about my relative, who is in his early 30's and will be, I think an interest photographer for decades to come.

Thanks in advance for your contributions. I am not as 'up' on mirrorless photography as I am on 35mm SLR/ Rangefinder...or DSLR photography, so any info would be great.

[UncleVanya]

Sony and Canon are probably the most well funded. Sony has the largest third party lens lineup. Sony has neglected apsc for a while and it isn’t cutting edge there. Fuji has no upgrade path to FF but medium format is available as an upgrade option. Nikon and Canon and Sony have all abandoned SLRs and gone mirrorless but offer a model for use of old lenses. That isn’t terrible but is less responsive than native lenses.

Canon has zero third party support by design.

[luftfluss]

Probably an initial budget would be in the ballpark of $ 1500-1750 USD. I was thinking of suggesting to him, getting one body, with a wide angle to normal zoom and a normal to telephoto...say around 55-300, 55-250mm or so...<snip>

I feel like you can't really go wrong with any of them. Last year, after research, I went with m4/3, but that was because I had a very specific set of criteria that the system meets very well.

But if I were going in as a newbie and just looking for a high-quality generalist solution, I would start with a (full frame) Nikon Z5 + 24-70/4 S, although that would eat up the budget without including a telephoto. I handled a Z6 at a camera store and found it to be quite nice, especially the EVF (shared with the Z5 and Z7), which IMO is large and sharp enough for those of us accustomed to OVF's.

Alternatively, you could get the APS-C Z50 + 24-50 + 50-250, which should all fit in the stated budget. The 50-250 is specifically APS-C.

Do you have any inkling as to what genres of photography your relative is interested in?

[aaacb]

Aside from k mount, i have m43. For me it really matters that it's smaller, my most used in that system is 100-400mm equivalent. Also pretty good value, should fit the budget pretty easily with two zooms and maybe a normal prime (mine are Panasonic 12-60, 45-200 and 25/1.7, all on the affordable side of the system)

[lesmore49]

I feel like you can't really go wrong with any of them. Last year, after research, I went with m4/3, but that was because I had a very specific set of criteria that the system meets very well.

But if I were going in as a newbie and just looking for a high-quality generalist solution, I would start with a (full frame) Nikon Z5 + 24-70/4 S, although that would eat up the budget without including a telephoto. I handled a Z6 at a camera store and found it to be quite nice, especially the EVF (shared with the Z5 and Z7), which IMO is large and sharp enough for those of us accustomed to OVF's.

Alternatively, you could get the APS-C Z50 + 24-50 + 50-250, which should all fit in the stated budget. The 50-250 is specifically APS-C.

Do you have any inkling as to what genres of photography your relative is interested in?

I knew I forgot something. I think it will be a fair amount of outdoors stuff...birds of prey...owls, hawks, eagles, water fowl, shorebirds and wildlife....deer, moose, etc. Also some landscape. So a telephoto zoom.
There will also be family celebration pix...birthday, Xmas, Easter....also some selfies.

I think eventually he may want to get into macro....so a 100mm +/- macro maybe eventually be part of his equipment repertoire...if he catches the photography bug in a big way.

I haven't handled a Nikon Z5, but did check out the Nikon website...and although I know little of this camera...on first impression...it seems like it could be a consideration.

[lesmore49]

Sony and Canon are probably the most well funded. Sony has the largest third party lens lineup. Sony has neglected apsc for a while and it isn’t cutting edge there. Fuji has no upgrade path to FF but medium format is available as an upgrade option. Nikon and Canon and Sony have all abandoned SLRs and gone mirrorless but offer a model for use of old lenses. That isn’t terrible but is less responsive than native lenses.

Canon has zero third party support by design.

Thank you for the info. That is info that will be important for my relative to mull over in terms of pluses and minuses , when comparing systems.

I did not know that Canon had zero third party support...I'm assuming aftermarket lenses, etc...for it
s mirrorless products.

In my Pentax arsenal of lenses, I have invariably Pentax, Takumar...but also a Sigma 150-500 and a Tamron (Pentax) 24-70 F 2.8. I do think it is important to have third party offerings...which provide options, particularly at the beginning of the hobby...for costs and other reasons.

[lesmore49]

Aside from k mount, i have m43. For me it really matters that it's smaller, my most used in that system is 100-400mm equivalent. Also pretty good value, should fit the budget pretty easily with two zooms and maybe a normal prime (mine are Panasonic 12-60, 45-200 and 25/1.7, all on the affordable side of the system)

Hadn't thought of that option.

BTW, I wonder is Fuji an m43 system...or an ASP-C system ?

[luftfluss]

Hadn't thought of that option.

BTW, I wonder is Fuji an m43 system...or an ASP-C system ?

Fuji is APS-C.

As @aaacb noted, the value proposition with m4/3 is pretty great right now.

I know it doesn't meet your sensor size criteria, but a turnkey system for wildlife photography that fits in the stated budget would be a Panasonic G9 or Olympus OM-D EM1 mkII + 100-400mm lens - so the equivalent of 800mm on full frame.

But, there is some uncertainty around m4/3's evolution. Olympus sold off their camera & lens division to another company that is making a go of it in continuing the system (where have we heard that before? ) and Panasonic is really digging in on video. Plus there is no upward migration to a compatible system with a larger sensor.

In general, a cheap and easy way to get into macro is to get a Raynox close-up adapter and attach it to the front of a lens that is 70mm or longer. Super convenient, too.

[ChristianRock]

I don't see why a Pentax K-70 or K-F would not be considered... With a DA 18-135 it makes a great starter combo.

If I had to go mirrorless I'd probably go with Fujifilm (they are APS-C and medium format). Lots of options there at different price points. Out of camera Jpegs are probably the best out there, so it would give immediately before results than phone cameras. And yes there is third party support...

[northcoastgreg]

Oddly enough, mirrorless tends to rather on the pricey side. It appeals most strongly to deep pocket technophile types. From a budgetary point of view, Sony and Canon APS-C offer the best prices, but they leave something desired as system cameras (they don't have as well developed systems as mirrorless FF or Fuji). There are some FF cameras for only $1,000, but FF lens, particularly good ones, can be quite expensive. At a budget in the $1,500 range, probably the best choice is Sony APS-C. After that, I would look at Fuji, and then Canon FF.

Mirrorless is actually much better developed on the high-end on the low end. It really has become a high-end format. On the lower end, DSLRs still offer much better value.

[KiloHotelphoto]

I have a Canon RF system and love it. I’ve never used the R10 APSC model but it seems to get good reviews and it’s autofocus system is apparently the same as all the other models and it’s incredibly good especially the animal eye AF with birds.

Right now at B&H a R10 kit with 18-150 is $1279 and the RF 100-400 is on sale for $499. They do have a good selection of RF lenses and are putting more out each year they got 16-1200mm available. All the old EF lenses work with an adapter and their are plenty of used EF lenses on the market for good prices with so many people switching to RF lenses. Third party lenses will come eventually but who knows when, it hasn’t been a problem for me but I know some people like them.

Fuji is apsc

[Kiddo70]

Oddly enough, mirrorless tends to rather on the pricey side. It appeals most strongly to deep pocket technophile types. From a budgetary point of view, Sony and Canon APS-C offer the best prices, but they leave something desired as system cameras (they don't have as well developed systems as mirrorless FF or Fuji). There are some FF cameras for only $1,000, but FF lens, particularly good ones, can be quite expensive. At a budget in the $1,500 range, probably the best choice is Sony APS-C. After that, I would look at Fuji, and then Canon FF.

Mirrorless is actually much better developed on the high-end on the low end. It really has become a high-end format. On the lower end, DSLRs still offer much better value.

I am currently using a Canon R10 mirrorless camera with an RF 100-400mm lens. The outfit cost $1500 from B&H. The system is quite capable for birds as it uses the focusing system from the higher level full frame systems. The R10 has a great color palette and can be set up to suit most wildlife or birding requirements. I like mirrorless because you see what you’re going to get in the viewfinder and I can compensate exposure in real time. The only complaint that I have about the camera is that the electronic shutter is loud. I also have a 50mm f1.8 RF lens and a 24-105mm zoom for other work.

[Serkevan]

For what it's worth, a friend of mine upgraded from his Nikon D5300 to a Z5 with the 24-200 - he's been enjoying it a lot and is very happy with the superzoom. He does miss the UWA side, since he was shooting a Tokina 11-16 for a long time, though.

[UncleVanya]

Thank you for the info. That is info that will be important for my relative to mull over in terms of pluses and minuses , when comparing systems.

I did not know that Canon had zero third party support...I'm assuming aftermarket lenses, etc...for it
s mirrorless products.

In my Pentax arsenal of lenses, I have invariably Pentax, Takumar...but also a Sigma 150-500 and a Tamron (Pentax) 24-70 F 2.8. I do think it is important to have third party offerings...which provide options, particularly at the beginning of the hobby...for costs and other reasons.

Canon recently cracked down on third party lens manufacturers that had reverse engineered their mount protocols. They also don’t appear to want to license their lens protocols unlike Sony.

Nikon appears to be embracing third party adding Tamron (likely licensed.)

I have shot Sony FF, Samsung APSC, Panasonic and Olympus m43 as well as several small sensor cameras from Nikon, Panasonic, and Sony. All have been good and none sucked. It’s hard to go wrong with any camera these days. I suggest that operational and ergonomic parameters as well as at least a few lenses that fit the use cases - this is what matters.

Nikon 24-120/4 is very good. Nikon and Canon make some lightweight slow aperture telephoto lenses.

[luftfluss]

Another question: Is this gear to be bought new, or can it be purchased used w/warranty from a reputable store?