[Rondec]

For what it's worth, CIPA does their battery testing by taking a photo every thirty seconds. They leave the camera on between shots and every ten shots they turn the camera off and turn it back on and repeat till the battery is discharged. The big place where they probably penalize cameras is those with onboard flash, they use the onboard flash for every other shot.

I think the big thing is that CIPA gives you a consistent testing procedure to look at camera battery life. As long as they are testing cameras the same, you can compare them to each other, even if in practice, you can actually shoot more images with a camera than what CIPA says you can. CIPA says the K-1 can do 760 shots per battery life -- I usually get twice that, but I'm not shooting the way they do either. The Z8 is half that, but of course, if you just hold down the shutter you can probably get a few thousand photos on a battery charge before it gives up the ghost.

Run and gun people will probably get way more images per battery charge, than CIPA estimates.

Wedding photography is somewhere in between. Typically you are talking 1500 to 2000 photos in a 8 to 10 hour period. The time in use is the issue. cameras do use a certain amount of battery life when they are on, even if you are simply moving groups around and are posing the couple. This is probably the biggest issue, not the time when you are taking photo bursts.

[biz-engineer]

I trust CIPA. CIPA rating is CIPA rating, it gives an idea of how cameras compare with regards to power consumption / battery.
Tom Hogan (and others) are biased, when CIPA of D850/D780 was superior they said CIPA is superior. Now CIPA is weak on Z8, they say "yes, but CIPA is more a measure of how long the camera can run".
It's splitting hairs, the camera must be up and running to take a shot (especially if it is mirrorless). So maybe you can shoot the Z8 at 20 FPS for 200 seconds and get 4000 shots on a battery charge, but that's not how I shoot.
Usually, when I'm out shooting, I see something interesting to shot, I wakeup the camera , take a few shots and move on; a few minutes later find something else interesting to shoot , take a few shots and move on. That's fairly close to the CIPA test protocol.

[Rondec]

I trust CIPA. CIPA rating is CIPA rating, it gives an idea of how cameras compare with regards to power consumption / battery.
Tom Hogan (and others) are biased, when CIPA of D850/D780 was superior they said CIPA is superior. Now CIPA is weak on Z8, they say "yes, but CIPA is more a measure of how long the camera can run".
It's splitting hairs, the camera must be up and running to take a shot (especially if it is mirrorless). So maybe you can shoot the Z8 at 20 FPS for 200 seconds and get 4000 shots on a battery charge, but that's not how I shoot.
Usually, when I'm out shooting, I see something interesting to shot, I wakeup the camera , take a few shots and move on; a few minutes later find something else interesting to shoot , take a few shots and move on. That's fairly close to the CIPA test protocol.

If anything, you could argue that CIPA's testing is closer to reality when it comes MILCs (you have to have them on in order to look through the viewfinder), whereas for SLRs, you could (as I do) look through the viewfinder with the camera and decide not to take a single photo in an area. There is little to no battery penalty with SLRs when it comes to composing shots, particularly if you frequently use the camera when it is turned off and only turn it on when you are ready to capture an image.

(I've never been a run and gun sort of photographer. 10 to 15 images from a morning jaunt with a K-1 is a decent number for me. I hate deleting hundreds of photos that all look exactly the same and that's mostly what I do when I get too trigger happy.)

[biz-engineer]

whereas for SLRs, you could (as I do) look through the viewfinder with the camera and decide not to take a single photo in an area.

DSLR is a lot more energy efficient, by design. If K1 was rated like dish washer, refrigerators and TV sets, it would get an A++. D850/D780 would get A+++ and Z8 would get an E.
About the energy label and ecodesign
So far cameras aren't rated for the carbon footprint. Although one could argue that if you charged your MILC with either hydroelectric or solar power, it would still be carbon neutral.

[Wheatfield]

Yes, I think you have a good point here. And multiple levels of menus is pretty much what Nikon have done. The difficulty comes with what is considered basic, advanced, and pro by each user. For instance, depending on your style of shooting, or depending on what you like to use in the camera, what you consider basic is advanced for me. If something I would often enable/disable is considered advanced by Nikon, I'd have to go deep into the menus, press buttons 5 to 8 times every time I want to change the setting. A "cache" menu would be nice: the most frequently used settings come on top of a menu, the never used setting goes at the very bottom/end of the menu. So far I've never seen such solution in a camera. The Z8 allow to configure buttons for direct access, the number of function buttons is limited , two buttons at the front, also AF ON button, there is no AE-L button.

The Fuji X-T5 allows the user to put specific menu items into what they call "My Menu". It relieves a lot of the dumpster diving as one can put their most changed settings into one small menu.

[biz-engineer]

The Fuji X-T5 allows the user to put specific menu items into what they call "My Menu". It relieves a lot of the dumpster diving as one can put their most changed settings into one small menu.

There is also a my menu in z8, as I discovered in a tutorial.

[Wheatfield]

There is also a my menu in z8, as I discovered in a tutorial.

It's a very handy sub menu. On the Fuji it's about the only one I go into now.

[morenjavi]

You have been fortunate to be able to try one of these cameras. I don't have any such events near my house .
I've had a Nikon Z for over a year now, although my camera is not up to the level of the Z8, but it's the one I could afford .
Some of the points you comment on are familiar to me, such as those regarding the interface, the many settings that are configurable and the 'strange' and somewhat antiquated menu. It has taken me a long time to get used to how things are on the Nikon Zs, although the Z8/Z9s are Nikon's top cameras and have better ergonomics compared to the Z6/Z7s, which always seem to be missing some button. These details were better resolved in Pentax, but I guess there is no perfect camera, we always complain about something.
AF accuracy is something I really appreciated, although the Z6s don't have AF as good as the Z8/Z9s.
I guess a camera halfway between the Z6 II (which is the one I have) and the Z8 would be ideal for me, but I'll have to keep waiting (and saving).
For the record I'm happy with the camera and the new lenses I got, but once you get used to it you always want more.
About the battery, you have to measure them differently in these mirrorless cameras, not by the number of photos, but by the time you have the camera on. I solve it with a spare battery.
By the way, there are K->Z adapters, but the ones I know of are very simple and support neither AF, nor metering.
Thanks for the report.

[LeeRunge]

Great review!

I'm still using my Z5 and I'll wait for the inevitable trickle down from the Z8/9 at a fraction of the price.

One great thing Nikon is doing is constant refinement through firmware updates. They've improved low light, eye tracking, AF in general and other things on my Z5 over the years and keep refining it and the other Z body's, which is excellent.

In the end all these things taking gorgeous images if the person behind the viewfinder does their part.

[biz-engineer]

With the Z8, Nikon kinda copied some of Pentax K1 ideas. Astro focusing on stars, with night vision mode. The rear display that tilts both vertical and horizontal (like K1), unlike z6 and z7, although not as sturdy as k1 moon lander design.

[morenjavi]

Great review!

I'm still using my Z5 and I'll wait for the inevitable trickle down from the Z8/9 at a fraction of the price.

One great thing Nikon is doing is constant refinement through firmware updates. They've improved low light, eye tracking, AF in general and other things on my Z5 over the years and keep refining it and the other Z body's, which is excellent.

In the end all these things taking gorgeous images if the person behind the viewfinder does their part.

I'm enjoying my Z, but I get the feeling that we z6II/z7II users have been a bit neglected , or perhaps our hopes for firmware improvements were unrealistic. I too would like to see them pass on some of the AF capabilities of the top models, as far as the hardware allows. I'd settle for some 3D tracking .

[LeeRunge]

I'm enjoying my Z, but I get the feeling that we z6II/z7II users have been a bit neglected , or perhaps our hopes for firmware improvements were unrealistic. I too would like to see them pass on some of the AF capabilities of the top models, as far as the hardware allows. I'd settle for some 3D tracking .

Do you have one of your front buttons set for the tracking box? That's how I have the Z5 setup, click lock and fire away. Works pretty close to my D750 which has the 3D tracking. They did improve the AF on the Z5 in the past few firmwares. Shoots slow at 4.5fps but that works fine for most things.

I doubt we'll see the performance of the Z8/9 for AF in any of the current 5/6/7 models. The hardware is different isn't it, processor wise, I know they all use different sensors.

We'll likely see metered versions of the Z9 in a z5ii, and z6 iii and 7 iii's which will have a bit less performance, whichever Nikon decides it needs to capture market, which means they'll probably go aggressive like they did with the Z8.

[morenjavi]

Do you have one of your front buttons set for the tracking box? That's how I have the Z5 setup, click lock and fire away. Works pretty close to my D750 which has the 3D tracking. They did improve the AF on the Z5 in the past few firmwares. Shoots slow at 4.5fps but that works fine for most things.

I doubt we'll see the performance of the Z8/9 for AF in any of the current 5/6/7 models. The hardware is different isn't it, processor wise, I know they all use different sensors.

We'll likely see metered versions of the Z9 in a z5ii, and z6 iii and 7 iii's which will have a bit less performance, whichever Nikon decides it needs to capture market, which means they'll probably go aggressive like they did with the Z8.

Hi LeeRugue.
Yes I do have a front button configured for the tracking box. But I don't end up getting such good results, and on the other hand it can only be activated when you are in 'full area AF' mode. It bugs me that it can't be activated from any other focus mode, that's one of the reasons I don't use it that much. My idea was to use it as an 'evolution' of 'focus and recompose', but in the end I mostly use large area AF (with face/eye detection) and small area AF. Those modes work very well for me, except that I have to move the focus box to compose.
Reading the manual of the Z8/Z9, I see that they do have a mode that they call 3D tracking. The Z6's tracking mode is only available in video mode. This tracking mode is stickier and has more options (different sizes, AI detection...), yes it is a feature I would like to have on my camera even if it is more limited.
But I'm afraid I'll have to wait for the Z6 III.
In the meantime I'll go back to practice with the 'basic' tracking mode .

[LeeRunge]

Hi LeeRugue.
Yes I do have a front button configured for the tracking box. But I don't end up getting such good results, and on the other hand it can only be activated when you are in 'full area AF' mode. It bugs me that it can't be activated from any other focus mode, that's one of the reasons I don't use it that much. My idea was to use it as an 'evolution' of 'focus and recompose', but in the end I mostly use large area AF (with face/eye detection) and small area AF. Those modes work very well for me, except that I have to move the focus box to compose.
Reading the manual of the Z8/Z9, I see that they do have a mode that they call 3D tracking. The Z6's tracking mode is only available in video mode. This tracking mode is stickier and has more options (different sizes, AI detection...), yes it is a feature I would like to have on my camera even if it is more limited.
But I'm afraid I'll have to wait for the Z6 III.
In the meantime I'll go back to practice with the 'basic' tracking mode .

I gotcha, I use the full area AF a lot and the tracking box if I want to follow something. I agree the 3D tracking from the older DSLR's is still simpler and it worked really well. My D750 still has really good AF. I guess we wait for the trickle down from the 8/9. AF has been good enough for me though, I got pretty good at dealing with basic AF-C with the K7/5/3's so all the Nikon stuff is easier.

I noticed the other day that I barely use my photo editing software much anymore. I've kinda gone to tweaking things the way I like in camera because you can see the results and its shaded well unlike the live view on a DSLR so 95% of the highlight and shadow adjustments I used to mess with I find aren't a factor anymore. The D-Lighting really works well on Nikon's too. Which is basically just in camera highlight and shadow adjustment, but being able to see it happen in the viewfinder in realtime helps a ton to get it just right and then shoot.

I use the snap bridge app heavily too since not much editing is going on and I can send off images shortly after they're taken or they go to my iCloud storage for long term.

I see Nikon looks like it's hinting at getting into photo storage. Honestly a smart move if one of these brands makes an ultra convenient way to upload/save/backup/store whatever these images for a reasonable price. I've got a stack of external drives full of images but who knows how long they'll last before they fail. Give me storage for $50 a year and I'll pay that no problem. GoPro already does this will unlimited video storage for 25-50 a year depending on if you catch a sale which is honestly pretty wild considering how much memory you can use up shooting 4k video.

[morenjavi]

I gotcha, I use the full area AF a lot and the tracking box if I want to follow something. I agree the 3D tracking from the older DSLR's is still simpler and it worked really well. My D750 still has really good AF. I guess we wait for the trickle down from the 8/9. AF has been good enough for me though, I got pretty good at dealing with basic AF-C with the K7/5/3's so all the Nikon stuff is easier.

I use the Full AF area from time to time. When there is a clear subject in the frame it works pretty well. But, if there are several subjects, then I change to wide or small area.I'm quite happy with the AF, and this have been a gain for me. But it seems that Z8/9 AF is another level.

I noticed the other day that I barely use my photo editing software much anymore. I've kinda gone to tweaking things the way I like in camera because you can see the results and its shaded well unlike the live view on a DSLR so 95% of the highlight and shadow adjustments I used to mess with I find aren't a factor anymore. The D-Lighting really works well on Nikon's too. Which is basically just in camera highlight and shadow adjustment, but being able to see it happen in the viewfinder in realtime helps a ton to get it just right and then shoot.

I've been a pure RAW shooter during years, but now, I'm using JPEG more and more, working with the profiles in camera. All my candid and family pics are now JPEG. I just use RAW if light conditions are extreme, or I'm covering an event. I also find WB very accurate on this cameras. Of course WYSIWYG features on mirrorless is a great help. Also, It's easier to use flash when you want to mix flash and ambient. And my Godox flashes and triggers work quite well.
BTW, do you know this site: https://nikonpc.com ? If not, take a look

I use the snap bridge app heavily too since not much editing is going on and I can send off images shortly after they're taken or they go to my iCloud storage for long term.

I use snap bridge a lot, for quick sharing and geo tagging. Not the best app for geo tagging but... that's the way it is. It's funny, when I had my k3-2 I hardly used the GPS, and now that I don't have it I miss it. So easy to use, just push the GPS button and you are done.

Regards.