[Gooshin]

recent discovery!

for the longest time i had my camera-body set to flash-wireless for the odd chance when i would use my light stands + infared.

turns out in the in-body f.ec has been set to -1.7 EV! (for thsoe that dont know, press FN, down for flash, choose flash option, and you will see the compenastion icon at the bottom that is controlled by one of the scrollers)

now that i put it back to zero PTTL works a heck of a lot better. Perhaps this is why i only had luck with AUTO mode which overrides whatever the camera is set to.

I tip my hat to Ash, his bashing got me to investigate.

however it still requires +1 comp or so, and doesnt work quite well for short distances and requires a bounce.
no to battle the ISO and Focus issues.

K7 for christmas i guess

[Eruditass]

recent discovery!

for the longest time i had my camera-body set to flash-wireless for the odd chance when i would use my light stands + infared.

turns out in the in-body f.ec has been set to -1.7 EV! (for thsoe that dont know, press FN, down for flash, choose flash option, and you will see the compenastion icon at the bottom that is controlled by one of the scrollers)

now that i put it back to zero PTTL works a heck of a lot better. Perhaps this is why i only had luck with AUTO mode which overrides whatever the camera is set to.

I tip my hat to Ash, his bashing got me to investigate.

however it still requires +1 comp or so, and doesnt work quite well for short distances and requires a bounce.
no to battle the ISO and Focus issues.

K7 for christmas i guess

Heh, I wonder how long it was like that.

That's why I have my camera to forget most things when I turn it off. When I'm at the same shoot, I don't turn it off, I let it auto-power-off so it remembers all of the settings.

The K-7 and K-x seem to have resolved the ISO and focus issues - to some extent.

Gooshin,

I feel your pain.

I spent a couple of years trying to get the onboard flash of the K10D to expose ANYTHING right.

Last month I bought a D200. The flash just works. You pop the flash, set the shutter, ISO and aperture you want, and BAM. A photo that is corectly exposed. It even works for fill flash. I used to avoid any flash usage with the K10D. The D200 is another story. It is a joy to use.

And then there is focus. I seriously thought i was messing up somehow with my K10D and autofocus. I would get focus confirmation, take the shot, and often find the focus point well behind the subject. It drove me nuts. After one weekend shooting my family, sister's kids etc with the D200, I now know I am not the problem with the autofocus. The D200 hit everything in focus. The shots I took over Thanksgiving are the first portraights I have taken where I needed to REDUCE the sharpening. K10D with its focus always slightly off gave nice soft images. The D200 nailed the focus every time. Some shots were just too sharp.

Then there is the metering of the K10D vs the D200. With teh K10D, I had to constantly watch the histogram, and make adjustments with the exposure comp. With the D200, I left the camera on Matrix Metering and ALL my shots were bag on. It got to the point where I stopped waching the histogram, and I just took shots. Kind of like shooting with a film camera. I tried shooting into the sun, I tried back lite shots, I tried hard to mess with the exposure system of the D200. I could not fool it. I had three shots over exposed at the end of the day. All three were because I had the exposure comp at +1. My fault.

So, to me and what I do, the D200 clearly beats my K10D. The autofocus, flash, and metering are far better then the K10D's.

So, I used to REALLY like the K10D. I really enjoy my Pentax mechanical bodies. But the experiance with teh D200 has me ready to make a change over to Nikon. My D200 with my F100 make a killer film/digital system. Sure I'll keep my Pentax mechanical bodies. But I don't see myself going forward with Pentax digital.

KungPOW, have you only tried pop-up flashes or external flashes as well?

From my experience with a Nikon D90 for a day - I prefer Pentax's metering that seems to expose for the highlights and preserve that detail as opposed to making the scene look "correct" - if you had a problem with it being dark. I did have D-lighting off and stuff though for the D90. It should definitely be an option, though. Didn't get to try a flash on the D90.

AF wise, I had no complaints with my K2000 in any lighting condition (lowlight with external flash assist or pop-up flash assist which is blinding unless I have my film can diffuser on it). However, I have always heard Nikon/Canon's predictive AF is far better but did not really get to experience it, has anyone else?

[F-Stop]

I simply assumed it was a lack of understanding of lighting rather than the limitations of my K100D. After reading this the problems I've dealt with seems common place. Weddings and and outdoor portrait work have become too frustrating that I'm missing shots I know I should be able to get. I always blamed myself so I never thought of commenting prior and I guess it still could be. I've captured a lot of great images mind you but the temptation to try a different system or get a K-7 next year is at times a noodle scratcher. I really don't want to buy new flashes, lenses, accessories and a new body just to learn and try out a new system for something I may not like.

[HGMonaro]

this feels like deja-vue... I could have wrote most of those paragraphs, however I've found my K10D's on camera flash to be very good exposure wise, you just can't bounce it *lol* and it's not powerful enough. For the 540, I've found 'auto' mode to be quite good, given up on P-TTL long ago. I set camera at desired f-stop/ISO (shutter at or below 1/180) and match it on the flash. If bouncing, set the flash one stop more (say choose f11 instead of f8) and balance result by varying camera around f8 (usually need to open up another 1/3 stop)

On the weekend I bought a K7 (was contemplating a D300s, but in-store experiements seemed to indicate the K7 focusing was light years ahead of my K10D) so I have taken a punt (buying a Nikon was going to involve buying a general purpose zoomy and a flash so was going to be a lot more $$$). Haven't put the 540 on it yet but the Mrs will be using it tomorrow in the exact way that the K10D confounded us. If she comes home with an in-focus shot I'll firstly jump for joy, and secondly, post something here!

[KungPOW]

Eurditass,

I have just used the onboard flash with the K10D and the D200. Sure, I might be doing something wrong with the flash on the Pentax. I really have not used it that much. Most of the time the results were so poor I had given up with the flash.

[Gooshin]

Eurditass,

I have just used the onboard flash with the K10D and the D200. Sure, I might be doing something wrong with the flash on the Pentax. I really have not used it that much. Most of the time the results were so poor I had given up with the flash.

well thats cuz the onboard flash just plain sucks, i think, regardless of camera, lol.

the light is simply not disperesed enough.

[HGMonaro]

the light is simply not disperesed enough.

while this is true, expose can be/should be accurate!

[Ash]

while this is true, expose can be/should be accurate!

Depends on the subject, focal length and working distance from camera.

[Ash]

Gooshin, that's partly why I'm convinced P-TTL is not all that rubbish - in the end I do get the results. I use P-TTL invariably, whether off or on camera, and haven't been disappointed.

Bumping FEC to +0.7 does sound silly to have to do to get adequate exposure, and we could justify Pentax's phobia to clip highlights all we like, but it does work. There is also the flash's own FEC that can be used if even more light is needed, but I've only ever needed to bump that up by +0.5, and it works.

One only needs to do a trial - have a willing subject - a decent room to do bounce/off-camera flash work on - set P-TTL with FEC +0.7 in Av mode with your favourite lens - and fire away to see if exposure is reasonable each time. I would think each exposure wouldn't be far from the mark...

[KungPOW]

well thats cuz the onboard flash just plain sucks, i think, regardless of camera, lol.

the light is simply not disperesed enough.

That is what I had assumed with the K10D. I was assuming that ALL onboard flashes suck, so I was not too worried about it. I figured if I want better, I should pony up the dollar and get a good flash.

The D200 changed my mind here. Sure a removable flash will still be better, but the onboard flash dosen't compleatly blow. It works great as a fill flash, and for snapshots, family pics etc. I never could figure the flash on the K10D out. The K10D's flash has been almost usless for me. The D200's flash has exceded my expectations. It produces a well ballenced photo. The subject is not over exposed, and the background is not black. Sure there are the sharp shadows common to all onboard flashes, but overall the results are really good.

Now that I've seen what a flash can do, I expect I will shell out the cash and get a good flash for the D200.

[Ash]

I've used the onboard flash as fill flash on many occasions, and again have not been disappointed with its results as long as the settings are right.

I start at 0 FEC in Av mode, ensuring the aperture and ISO aren't out of the question for the ambient lighting available, and work from there to get the desired fill.

[KungPOW]

I've used the onboard flash as fill flash on many occasions, and again have not been disappointed with its results as long as the settings are right.

I start at 0 FEC in Av mode, ensuring the aperture and ISO aren't out of the question for the ambient lighting available, and work from there to get the desired fill.

Yup, thats how I've used the K10D also. Take a shot, adjust, take another shot, adjust...

The D200 works by working. No tweaking. No test shots.

[HGMonaro]

ran around the house tonight firing off the K7 & 540 in P-TTL mode bounced and it only got confused once! Took a pic of one son lying in bed and it was fine, pointed it at the other one (different room, same paint scheme) and it over-exposed enough to warrant -0.5 adjustment (on flash). Other scenes, both bounced and direct including close ups (with flash head in the down position) all exposed well but I can't tell from the PhotoMe data whether I reset the flash compensation in them so I need to try it again paying a bit more attention. I can say I expected 800iso to be less noisy. 400 looks reasonable. Maybe I need to tweek some settings.

So far so good!

[Ash]

Yup, thats how I've used the K10D also. Take a shot, adjust, take another shot, adjust...

The D200 works by working. No tweaking. No test shots.

Once adjusted one time, according to the conditions, I need no further adjustments on either my K10D or K20D. Usually it's because I want fill flash rather than flash as a sole light source, or I need to compensate for a bright highlight, etc. - not because it needs tweaking with each shot. But that's just me - or I would not be happy with P-TTL myself...

[Peter Zack]

Interesting thread. Since I use flash about 60-70% of an entire wedding, I feel I can wade in.
First I don't have much issue with the AF (shooting a pair of K20D's and occasionally a K10D). Sure I miss a shot once in awhile but not often. Honestly I think it's knowing your gear. I'm not saying that you don't understand every feature maybe better than I do. I don't flip from one brand to another and shoot the same lenses all the time. Works for me cause I know exactly how to get what I need from each lens.

As for flash, well P-TTL is OK but not the greatest and I fall somewhere in the middle of this group. Most of the time I get what I want from it but sometimes I feel like I'm fighting with it to get the shots I want. So after a while I decided, why bother and went back to the old school way of doing things.

I've said this a number of times before, shoot manual!! I had 3 AF400T's sitting here and it's a better flash, period, faster and more power. So I shoot manual all the time now. If you understand your flash ratios in your head and can estimate a room, it's not tough. Sometimes a little chimping is required as well. I diffuse 99.9% of my shots and rarely use direct flash. I find I can get the exposures I want with soft shadows and I'm generally happy with the results.

In fact I borrowed a Canon 40D and 580 flash unit as a second camera a few weeks ago and hated the results. Lifeless looking images and flash results that frankly were worse than anything I would normally get from my Pentax. I really don't think the grass is greener. Although I have to admit the Canon AF was faster in low light.

I'm sure an experienced Canon shooter could get better results and I really think it comes down to knowing your gear from using it a lot and practicing stuff when you are not sure. After 26 weddings this season alone, I can say I am comfortable with my kit.