[jsherman999]

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Don't know if this has been mentioned yet (haven't seen it) or if this dpreview poster is a member of this forum, but ---> interesting read.

I think he's pretty much right about everything he posted, except what I've bolded below - on that point, he's dead wrong - I own the DA 35 macro, and it's a better lens than my Nikon 35 1.8G, but I also used to own the FA 35 f/2 - and I think the 35 1.8G and FA 35 are about equal in everything but build quality (Pentax's build quality is better.)



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(OP below, follow link above for full thread)

Seems to be customary to write a farewell post, so here goes.

My Nikon Ai, Ai-S, and pre-Ai lenses are going into storage, my Nikon D40 to ebay. I'm not selling my core lenses though, and my FM2n stays put. One day, if and when Nikon gets finds its game in the sub $1000 market, I'll be back. For the time being, I've moved to Pentax.

Reasons:

Lack of a viable upgrade path from the D40 for people like me who use manual focus lenses. Basically Nikon holds a gun to your head and says "buy the D300". And even then my non-Ai primes are NG.

Specifically the D5000 is a non-starter: the 0.78x viewfinder means focusing is harder than on the D40! And I have no interest in the flip out LCD. The D3000 was a joke ... I could upgrade to, what, more AF points and hand-holding beginner modes. Yay. A D80 and D90 would have been nice, but a non-functioning meter cuts out many of the benefits of the body, and again my non-Ai primes are useless.

Cut scene to my K10D: any lens you can mount you can meter, and with the m42 adapter you can mount an awful lot of lenses. K-mount lenses are stop down to meter but are auto indexing, Later "A" lenses are like Ai-P on nikon, and work properly in all modes. m42 are manual, stop down to meter or expose.

As you can see, even when it's about the body it's about the lenses, and when it's about the lenses it's really about the lenses:

With Pentax, there are affordable compact, all metal AF DX primes: DA15, DA21, DA35 macro, and DA70 Limiteds. Nikon has the DX 35/1.8. If that had been an amazing optic I might still have been around. Instead, it was ghastly. That, and the D3000-5000 fiasco, were specifically what made me jump.

Pentax also have the FA 31, 43 and 77 limiteds. Nikon has (sound of chirping crickets) ... well, I suppose you can get the Zeiss ZF 35/2, but you'd still be left with a nonfunctioning meter on most bodies, and no autofocus.

I could tell you that the FA 31/1.8 is the best lens I've ever used, and no doubt you'll find your own excuses to insist that your Nikkor 18-55 f3.5-5.6 is perfectly good for 1/20th the price, or that the Nikkor 35/2 beats it hands down etc. etc. (it isn't and it doesn't) but that's OK. My earlier Nikon self wouldn't have paid attention to current Pentax self either.

What I'm here to say, to try and tell you, is if you like prime lenses old and new Pentax makes a far less frustrating master than Nikon. Pentax does not tier out its dSLR line by lens compatibility, all bodies are compatible with all lenses and retain equal functionality. No not having the AF motor, no not having the Ai coupling, no not having a functioning meter.

What I won't try to say is that Pentax makes better lenses than Nikon. That's something you'll have to find out for yourself. If you like lenses though, you owe it to yourself to check them out.

[Ash]

Quite objective.

I like this comment by one of the responders:
"Do you realize that you've chosen the alternative brand that likely goes bankrupt next?"

And another:
"I stick with Nikon because the future might have Pentax on the ropes and lagging behind on technology and I do not want to get stuck with a bunch of Pentax lenses being fitted on a body that gives lesser quality. When you pay a premium for a name, you also buy the better chance that they will be around in years to come. "

And "I just hope for your sake that Pentax is still a viable company when you want to buy lenses and accessories. The signs are not that good from that company right now"

And "I am not against Pentax because consumers can only benefit from lots of competition and I wish them good luck. I am just not willing to invest in a system the future of which is so questionable. "

seems to be all focused on Pentax going bust...

And for some fun, one die-hard says "I am stunned by the silliness of some of the posts tonight. To the OP...I don't think you have a clue about what you are doing. I hope you find Pentax more to your liking but somehow, I doubt it. "

[causey]

The power of a brand name... But the vacuousness of that power, especially when so well expressed, does one a lot of good for the day. Cause laughing is healthy. Thanks, Ash.

[B Grace]

I'm confused by one part of the story. The former Nikon shooter correctly complains about the modern Nikon cameras not being able to shoot pre-AI lenses (they will not mount without damaging the aperture coupling lever) but he or she only mentions having a manual focus film FM2N which also can't be used with pre-AI lenses. I wonder what he has been shooting his old lenses with.

And a comment I'll make is that while the D300 is the first camera in the Nikon range that will allow a traditional Nikon shooter to use his or her AI and manual focus AI-s lenses, and it is an expensive camera, it's simply the price of admission. The D300 is an excellent camera and many of the AI-s manual focus primes are equal to the best lenses on the market. Why skimp on the camera?

[dosdan]

I'm confused by one part of the story. The former Nikon shooter correctly complains about the modern Nikon cameras not being able to shoot pre-AI lenses (they will not mount without damaging the aperture coupling lever) but he or she only mentions having a manual focus film FM2N which also can't be used with pre-AI lenses. I wonder what he has been shooting his old lenses with.

You can ask him yourself:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/welcomes-introductions/79118-nikon-refugee.html

Dan.

[HGMonaro]

And a comment I'll make is that while the D300 is the first camera in the Nikon range that will allow a traditional Nikon shooter to use his or her AI and manual focus AI-s lenses, and it is an expensive camera, it's simply the price of admission. The D300 is an excellent camera and many of the AI-s manual focus primes are equal to the best lenses on the market. Why skimp on the camera?

Sometimes, the bank account only has so many $$$ in it... What takes a better picture, a Pentax in your hand or a D300 in the shop window?

I was somewhat in the OP's position (although I didn't have a Nikon dSLR to confuse the issue even more), and the D200 body I needed (at the time) was over $1000 more than the K10D and 16-45 lens. I still have my Nikkors but after experimenting with a Nikon-Pentax convertor (contains crappy glass element to fix focusing issues) and then weighing up a D300 vs K7, I bought the K7 as although I could, I was not willing to spend the extra $$$ required for some zoom's. I can't see how adding Ai/Ai-S compatability to D80/D90 level of cameras is going to hurt sales of D200/D300 cameras. I'm just about ready to sell the Nikkors and buy suitable Pentax replacements as although I'd be happy to manual focus, stop down metering or meter by trial is pushing the friendship too far!

[sharathk]

Quite objective.

I like this comment by one of the responders:
"Do you realize that you've chosen the alternative brand that likely goes bankrupt next?"

And another:
"I stick with Nikon because the future might have Pentax on the ropes and lagging behind on technology and I do not want to get stuck with a bunch of Pentax lenses being fitted on a body that gives lesser quality. When you pay a premium for a name, you also buy the better chance that they will be around in years to come. "

And "I just hope for your sake that Pentax is still a viable company when you want to buy lenses and accessories. The signs are not that good from that company right now"

And "I am not against Pentax because consumers can only benefit from lots of competition and I wish them good luck. I am just not willing to invest in a system the future of which is so questionable. "

seems to be all focused on Pentax going bust...

And for some fun, one die-hard says "I am stunned by the silliness of some of the posts tonight. To the OP...I don't think you have a clue about what you are doing. I hope you find Pentax more to your liking but somehow, I doubt it. "

add to that

"Pentax, on the other hand, is obviouly struggling. There is a minimum size that I will call "critical mass" below which a company can not remain profitable and continue to exist. I am not sure Pentax has fallen below critical mass, but they are a lot closer than Sony."

oh boy, people are just waiting for pentax to go bust.

[KungPOW]

Pentax is no longer a company. Pentax is just a brand name. Hoya Bought Pentax, and all the assists are now 100% Hoya.

If the camera division is not able to make money, we could expect Hoya to sell off the pieces of the camera division, but hold onto the medical division. Maybe they would sell the Pentax name along with the camera division, maybe not. If they keep the medical side, they might keep the Pentax name.

But I agree, People really are chomping at the bit for Pentax Camera to fail.

[B Grace]

Sometimes, the bank account only has so many $$$ in it... What takes a better picture, a Pentax in your hand or a D300 in the shop window?

I was somewhat in the OP's position (although I didn't have a Nikon dSLR to confuse the issue even more), and the D200 body I needed (at the time) was over $1000 more than the K10D and 16-45 lens. I still have my Nikkors but after experimenting with a Nikon-Pentax convertor (contains crappy glass element to fix focusing issues) and then weighing up a D300 vs K7, I bought the K7 as although I could, I was not willing to spend the extra $$$ required for some zoom's. I can't see how adding Ai/Ai-S compatability to D80/D90 level of cameras is going to hurt sales of D200/D300 cameras. I'm just about ready to sell the Nikkors and buy suitable Pentax replacements as although I'd be happy to manual focus, stop down metering or meter by trial is pushing the friendship too far!

The camera that takes the best picture at any given time is the one you own and the Nikon shooter already had a D40. In addition to my K200D, I share a D40x with my wife. It's a very capable camera in the hands of someone knowing his or her way around with a basic camera...much like the FM2N the Nikon shooter also has. If I already had, say, the 28/2.8, 50/1.4 and 105/2.5 Nikkors, all MF AI-s, I'd find a way to step up to the D300 or even a used D200. I do have three primes for the D40x including a AF60/2.8D micro so I've even considered buying an "ancient" D100.

[Samsungian]

He picked wrong nikon camera to compliment his existing kit. Any simple search would have clued him in.

I added D700 to be able to use all nikon lenses made from 1977 foward and as they were designed " full frame"

Anyone who knows nikon should be aware of possible incompatibility issues. Nikon reserves compatibilty for their pricier cameras, no surprises.

I'll guess in the future he'll regret selling off his old nikon lenses, all a chain of shopping events brought on by buying a cheapo nikon dslr to begin with.

Ooops.

I've bought one Nikon camera in my life, D700 and I'm done buying nikon cameras.

The camera that takes the best picture at any given time is the one you own and the Nikon shooter already had a D40. In addition to my K200D, I share a D40x with my wife. It's a very capable camera in the hands of someone knowing his or her way around with a basic camera...much like the FM2N the Nikon shooter also has. If I already had, say, the 28/2.8, 50/1.4 and 105/2.5 Nikkors, all MF AI-s, I'd find a way to step up to the D300 or even a used D200. I do have three primes for the D40x including a AF60/2.8D micro so I've even considered buying an "ancient" D100.

[Samsungian]

I'd like to see Hoya's Pentax logo succeed.

However K-7 is too small for me, so I'll pass

SDM lenses are having 1st generation design flaws, so I'll pass

Epic Japan made Limited Lens production lines are now outsourced to VietNam so I'll pass

I don't get all giddy when any camera maker offers a new budget dslr, even if available in 100 colors & for Japan market only so I'll pass


K20D is great camera to drive my old Pentax glass. Theres nothing new left for me to buy. I still look at used items but those are more like shopping opportunities not planned purchases.

Will Hoya recall the defective SDM lenses?
Will Hoya continue to shrink their aps-c dslr platform?
Will Hoya make a full frame K-mount dslr available, & for sale?

I don't care about 645D and from lack of any overwhelming posts from pentaxians saying they want 645D at any price I'd say most potential buyers with cash inhand don't care either.

Pentax is profitable now, with far fewer employees, with fewer manufacturing plants. I see ads for them too. But for me theres nothing new to purchase. Even if they offer K-7 in 100 colors only in Japan, its still too small for me. And I do not live in Japan.

Pentax is no longer a company. Pentax is just a brand name. Hoya Bought Pentax, and all the assists are now 100% Hoya.

If the camera division is not able to make money, we could expect Hoya to sell off the pieces of the camera division, but hold onto the medical division. Maybe they would sell the Pentax name along with the camera division, maybe not. If they keep the medical side, they might keep the Pentax name.

But I agree, People really are chomping at the bit for Pentax Camera to fail.

[KungPOW]

Well, maybe Pentax has nothing for sale that interests you, but I do think they are on the right track.

As the OP has shown, there are some that are looking for a small, inexpensive system that has great primes.

Pentax is the niche player that offers this.

[AdrianN]

Even if they offer K-7 in 100 colors only in Japan, its still too small for me. And I do not live in Japan.

And some people dislike the oversized SLRs from Canon and Nikon; can't please everyone.

[joele]

Epic Japan made Limited Lens production lines are now outsourced to VietNam so I'll pass

OK I love this part..

1) outsourced?? lol I doubt that, final assembly is done there, it helps tarrifs in a lot of countries.. For all we know they slide the cap on the lens there and box it up.. who knows, calling it outsourced is a bit rich though..

2) I have the vietnam version of the 31 and have compared it to Roentarre's Japan made 31 that he gave to me for a few weeks... There is zero difference as far as I can tell.. and I am picky... Voe got a bad sample, I know Voe personally and don't doubt his word in any way, but a bad sample is not representative of an entire product line..

[Samsungian]

People guess Pentax still manufacture Dslr Equiptment in Japan. However if you read what Hoya publically says that stopped in April 2008 when "Hamada" closed pentax last domestic plant in Japan 19 months ago.

Now whether you care where your lenses are made is your choice.

My definition is "outsourcing" is done to cut manufacturing cost, not to improve quality control.

Your definition of outsourcing I'll assume is different.

When SDM lenses are sent for repair they are shipped to Japan, not VietNam for the 3 month long rebuild, repair, quality control:

VietNam makes them, then Japan fixes them.

My money my choice, your money your choice.

Only time will reveal what lenses were built to last:

Classic, epic Pentax Made in Japan, or current Pentax Assembled in VietNam.

One should read what Hoya says to know whats up with their Pentax Brand in 2009:





Oct. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Hoya Corp., the Japanese lens maker that bought Pentax Corp. for about $1 billion, is prepared to make a similar-sized acquisition to expand its health-care unit.

“We will do some M&As,” Chief Operating Officer Hiroshi Hamada said in an interview at the company’s Tokyo headquarters on Oct. 23. Hoya may target assets as large as Pentax or pursue smaller overseas venture-capital firms, he said.

An acquisition of a health-care business would help President Hiroshi Suzuki expand the company’s most-profitable division, and build on a strategy that led to the 2007 purchase of endoscope maker Pentax. Hoya is also seeking to partner a consumer-electronics company such as Samsung Electronics Co. to compete with larger rivals in the camera market, Hamada said.

“Hoya is a little weak in basic technologies, so it makes sense they’d consider buying a business in order to save development time,” said Mitsuhiro Osawa, an analyst at Ichiyoshi Research Institute Inc. in Tokyo, adding that an acquisition could also help expand distribution channels for medical equipment. “How many doctors do they have connections with? You can’t just build a network overnight.”

Hoya, Japan’s largest maker of optical glass, fell 1 percent to close at 1,975 yen in Tokyo trading, compared with a 1.5 percent decline by the benchmark Nikkei 225 Stock Average. The company’s shares have risen 28 percent this year.

Hamada, 50, formerly president of Dell Inc.’s Japan unit, took over day-to-day operations at Pentax, Japan’s oldest maker of single-lens reflex cameras, in April 2008 and oversaw the closure of the company’s last domestic digital-camera factory.

OK I love this part..

1) outsourced?? lol I doubt that, final assembly is done there, it helps tarrifs in a lot of countries.. For all we know they slide the cap on the lens there and box it up.. who knows, calling it outsourced is a bit rich though..

2) I have the vietnam version of the 31 and have compared it to Roentarre's Japan made 31 that he gave to me for a few weeks... There is zero difference as far as I can tell.. and I am picky... Voe got a bad sample, I know Voe personally and don't doubt his word in any way, but a bad sample is not representative of an entire product line..