[Miserere]

About a month ago I bought a Canon S90 P&S. I would have liked to buy Pentax, but our guys don't make this type of advanced P&S. Ned Bunnell went with a Leica D-Lux 4, but I suppose his salary is bigger than mine as I could only afford the S90

But seriously, do you guys think Pentax should be trying to get a foothold in the advanced P&S market? The S90 is selling like crazy and will surely give Canon a tidy profit, but would it have sold just as well if the logo had said Pentax instead of Canon?

I am writing a 3-part review of the S90—you can already read Part 1 and Part 2. While the camera is very good, both in handling and IQ, there are still many improvements that could be made. Canon is notorious for not listening to the complaints its users have (which is why they still include a quick-print button in some of their high-tier DSLRs), so if some company were to look at the strengths of the Canon S90 (and Panasonic LX3) and build upon that using the feedback from its users, they could produce the definitive P&S for the advanced photographer. Maybe I should trademark that catchphrase...

Thoughts and opinions?

It seems like Pentax's P&S range is just an afterthought, and apart from the waterproof series, there aren't any cameras that look like any serious thought was put into them. I believe that as technology advances, small sensors are going to get much better, and small P&S cameras are going to become viable tools in the creation of serious photographs. The S90 and LX3 are already there. Who's going to be next?

.

[tcdk]

If I didn't already have a LX3, I would get a S90 asap. I'm not sure if spending more time/energy on p&s is a good idea, Pentax is to small a company to compete on several fronts. Focus on a marked or niche... (and give me a D300s'ish opgrade path)

[rmtschanz]

If anything, I think they should take note of the LX3. Yes, the S90 has a greater FL, front aperture ring dial and a more compact form factor. But otherwise I find it to be an evolution of the old S series:

-S90 has 2.0 at the wide end, but by the time you reach 50mm it is already a full stop slower than the LX3.
-The freewheel on the back of the s90 is hit or miss for some people
-640x480 video on s90!?
-Not sure if the S90 can do this, but on the lX3 you can set minimum shutter speed and max iso when using 'auto' iso mode.

[CSpronken]

If the Samsung TL 500 is any good, I wouldn't mind a rebranded/styled, pentax version. I'm not sure Samsung will let them.

[asw66]

Ideally, something like a Leica X1 at a sensible price.

This would be a far more "doable" project for Pentax than to attempt to create their own micro system with interchangeable lenses. Moreover, I think that such a product would fit very well with Pentax's design ethos: simple, practical, high quality products at reasonable prices.

[Portland Pete]

Ideally, something like a Leica X1 at a sensible price.

This would be a far more "doable" project for Pentax than to attempt to create their own micro system with interchangeable lenses. Moreover, I think that such a product would fit very well with Pentax's design ethos: simple, practical, high quality products at reasonable prices.

I've been looking at the Oly E-P2, and thinking how great it would be to get something like that from Pentax. Easy answer is APS-C sensor instead of 4:3, and Crippled KAF2 mount. Essentially a K-x without the mirror box, prism, or shutter.

[amaurosis]

Considering the expertise and reputation Pentax have earned with their prime lenses, I personally think that something like the Sigma DP2 or Leica X1 would be a fitting concept, i.e. a practical, no-nonsense APS-C camera with a fixed prime lens of excellent, maybe Limited-like, quality. Picture that with the K-x sensor and you have a new leader in this segment. This also appears much more feasible than building up a whole new system of interchangeable lenses. Let's be honest, we're not going to buy a compact APS-C camera such as the Lumix GF1 and then use it with zoom lenses the size of the actual camera. One versatile pancake prime lens is in fact all you'd need with such a compact camera system so why not make it a fixed lens? Pentax already have the amazing K-x that is barely an larger than m4/3 cameras anyway for interchangeable lenses.

If this doesn't happen any time soon then Samsung get my money. The EX1 just looks too amazing. Alternatively an updated LX3 with an S90-styled lens ring would be cool.

[edl]

If anything, I think they should take note of the LX3. Yes, the S90 has a greater FL, front aperture ring dial and a more compact form factor. But otherwise I find it to be an evolution of the old S series:

-S90 has 2.0 at the wide end, but by the time you reach 50mm it is already a full stop slower than the LX3.
-The freewheel on the back of the s90 is hit or miss for some people
-640x480 video on s90!?
-Not sure if the S90 can do this, but on the lX3 you can set minimum shutter speed and max iso when using 'auto' iso mode.

Being a LX3 owner, I agree with your comments. I think the best camera of the bunch would be a LX3 with the S90/G11 sensor I like the improved dynamic range of the Canon sensor, but they should've put more $$$ into the lens design. The video modes are pathetic, too.

I don't think Pentax should compete in the P&S market. Look at Nikon and all their Coolpix's. Does anyone buy those?

[pingflood]

Canon is notorious for not listening to the complaints its users have (which is why they still include a quick-print button in some of their high-tier DSLRs)

Well, in their defense, the more recent bodies have addressed two major complaints Canon users have had: direct print button and lack of mirror lockup button. It now controls Live View which a) makes it useful and b) eliminates the need for MLU. It can still act as a direct print button though no one I know actually uses that...

[edl]

Well, in their defense, the more recent bodies have addressed two major complaints Canon users have had: direct print button and lack of mirror lockup button. It now controls Live View which a) makes it useful and b) eliminates the need for MLU. It can still act as a direct print button though no one I know actually uses that...

I bet Ken Rockwell will write an article lamenting the loss of the direct print button if Canon eliminates it

[PentaxPoke]

I don't know if Pentax would have been as successful in this sector. These P&S cameras are technology driven. SLR's have always been lens-driven, but this is certainly changing. Pentax has strength in glass and general camera mechanics, but their technology lags. IMO this makes it hard for them to compete cost-effectively in the P&S sector.

[Clicker]

the only people i see with Pentax P&S are usually the gadget geeks otherwise all i hear is Canon or Nikon is the best but in the end they all give acceptable images and in my books that's what counts for that market

btw i currently have a Panasonic P&S but the i10 is calling because for whatever reason, i've become "nostalgic struck" and anything "retro" is what i want

About a month ago I bought a Canon S90 P&S. I would have liked to buy Pentax, but our guys don't make this type of advanced P&S. Ned Bunnell went with a Leica D-Lux 4, but I suppose his salary is bigger than mine as I could only afford the S90
Leica probably gave him a good deal (just to make you feel even worse about it).


But seriously, do you guys think Pentax should be trying to get a foothold in the advanced P&S market? The S90 is selling like crazy and will surely give Canon a tidy profit, but would it have sold just as well if the logo had said Pentax instead of Canon?
No, there isn't enough brand recognition and stores wouldn't stock them.

I am writing a 3-part review of the S90—you can already read Part 1 and Part 2. While the camera is very good, both in handling and IQ, there are still many improvements that could be made. Canon is notorious for not listening to the complaints its users have (which is why they still include a quick-print button in some of their high-tier DSLRs), so if some company were to look at the strengths of the Canon S90 (and Panasonic LX3) and build upon that using the feedback from its users, they could produce the definitive P&S for the advanced photographer. Maybe I should trademark that catchphrase...
There can be no definitive P&S (or any camera for that matter). Two reasons, 1)Todays technology will be out of date as early as tomorrow, the manufacturers would be cutting their own throats because future sales would be affected. Even if they could produce a definitive product, they would still have to try and develop something better which would put more pressure and cost on them and still there would be a high risk of another manufacturer beating them.


Thoughts and opinions?

It seems like Pentax's P&S range is just an afterthought, and apart from the waterproof series, there aren't any cameras that look like any serious thought was put into them. I believe that as technology advances, small sensors are going to get much better, and small P&S cameras are going to become viable tools in the creation of serious photographs. The S90 and LX3 are already there. Who's going to be next?

.

I have no clue what Pentax are doing with P&S (not sure if they do). I do know I have an early WP which is still pretty good and the range seems to have gone downhill from there. Perhaps flooding the market with new models is a strategy born out of desperation or perhaps there is sound thinking behind it and only time will tell. Perhaps they can only afford to change the 'packaging' which they probably have to do to remain in the market and try to shoehorn in any new developments they come up with in their DSLR range (HD video for example).

[Miserere]

I don't know if Pentax would have been as successful in this sector. These P&S cameras are technology driven.

Yeah, that's true, and a good point.

The advanced P&S market keeps expanding, with Samsung having announced their 1/1.7" P&S, the EX1 (TL500). We'll see how it performs, but on paper the specs are quite juicy.

...

[Nass]

Not sure. P&S are commodities with tiny profit margins, lowest price wins. If they were to invest a lot of R&D time in those their other ranges might suffer, and I'd rather they concentrate on their other ranges