Mamiya M645 vs. Bronica ETRS questions

HGMonaro · 01-06-2010, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by Steve Beswick

Any comments?

my 1st M645, a 1000s, probably looks worse (I couldn't tell that the photo's of it supplied at the time but that's another story...) but functions fine. I now use a Pro TL but occasionly put a battery into the 1000s and exercise the shutter. Speaking of batteries, get yourself a spare or two as they aren't something you can buy at a corner store. The other thing I'd suggest is to check the foam seals, especially around the film door as they will leak light with age and wear.

Cheers, Nige

Steve Beswick · 01-06-2010, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by HGMonaro

my 1st M645, a 1000s, probably looks worse (I couldn't tell that the photo's of it supplied at the time but that's another story...) but functions fine. I now use a Pro TL but occasionly put a battery into the 1000s and exercise the shutter. Speaking of batteries, get yourself a spare or two as they aren't something you can buy at a corner store. The other thing I'd suggest is to check the foam seals, especially around the film door as they will leak light with age and wear.

Cheers, Nige

Allright, you got me. It's only the scariest one on ebay.

Actually, except for the "leather", it's not that bad.

Ben_Edict · 01-07-2010, 04:00 AM

Congrats for your choice. I opted for the Mamiya 645 system over the Bronica many years ago and am very happy with the choice. First of all, Mamiya has faster glass available ar reasonable prices. Then, I found, that I wouldn't need interchangeable backs (though the later Mamiyas do have those), but instead use two bodies (1000s) and a load of film holders, which can be preloaded and accelarate film change very much. These are dirt cheap now.

Also Mamiya as a system is still alive and you can go digital with only adding a body and a back and still use the old lenses - which is a big plus (quite like Pentax...). And also quite like Pentax, the focal plane shutter of the Mamiya allows the use of older and interesting third party glass, like the Pentaxcon Six lenses (the 300/4 is great and the 500/5.6 quite nice and then there is the cheap Kiew 30mm fish-eye - not quite a fish-eye on the 645).

I alsways wanted to use my Mamiya 70mm leaf shutter lens with my Pentax DSLR though, just have to assemble something for triggering the combo...

Ben

Ratmagiclady · 01-08-2010, 03:07 PM

Hrm, I dunno. It's highly unlikely 'the meter is accurate,' as that's not the metered finder in the pictures... Seems maybe you paid more than you had to, especially for that condition. Could still work, though. Kind of the luck of the draw in these matters.

Steve Beswick · 01-09-2010, 02:00 AM

Originally posted by Ratmagiclady

Hrm, I dunno. It's highly unlikely 'the meter is accurate,' as that's not the metered finder in the pictures... Seems maybe you paid more than you had to, especially for that condition. Could still work, though. Kind of the luck of the draw in these matters.

I was wondering about that statement as well. I think he meant that the shutter speeds are accurate. Whatever he meant, it showed up today, and it seems to work well. I'll need to get some film tomorrow so I can be sure. I'm really excited!

I do have one minor problem though - one of the strap "clips" I have doesn't fit very well. One pops right on, but the other only fits one of the lugs, and thats just barely.

I'm under the impression that it is a strap from a later model, so maybe that has something to do with it, or maybe I just have a bad clip!

So you think I over paid?

Farside · 01-09-2010, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by HGMonaro

Speaking of batteries, get yourself a spare or two as they aren't something you can buy at a corner store. The other thing I'd suggest is to check the foam seals, especially around the film door as they will leak light with age and wear.

Cheers, Nige

Good point about the batteries - if you find yourself stuck you can use four LR44 alkaline button cells wrapped in a paper tube with a piece of foil in the end to make up the length. It ends up being 6.2V nominal instead of 6V, but that's nothing worth bothering about.

To the OP:
Nice to know KEH are still knocking out M645Js at rock-bottom prices - I got one last year for $38 including an UG prism. The camera is a delight to use and the prism isn't as UG as it might have been.

Currently using it with P6 and Russian glass, with decent results.

Ratmagiclady · 01-09-2010, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by Steve Beswick

I was wondering about that statement as well. I think he meant that the shutter speeds are accurate. Whatever he meant, it showed up today, and it seems to work well. I'll need to get some film tomorrow so I can be sure. I'm really excited!

I do have one minor problem though - one of the strap "clips" I have doesn't fit very well. One pops right on, but the other only fits one of the lugs, and thats just barely.

I'm under the impression that it is a strap from a later model, so maybe that has something to do with it, or maybe I just have a bad clip!

So you think I over paid?

It's more than I would have *risked,* but if you have good function, it's not too bad. (especially given the error about the metered finder, I think I might have passed that one up: not that the unmetered finder is anything terrible: it's much lighter and less bulky than the metered ones, and a lot of those meters are just croaking or gone, anyway. Hang onto that piece.

) I think you can spend close to what you did and get one in a better condition from Keh, but I don't think the cosmetics are too hard to fix up, there, either, if that's all that's wrong. (hey, potential excuse to visit cameraleather com.

) If it works, the price differences will be forgotten by you soon enough.

I think you do have a strap from a later model: I think that the Pro and/or Super have a special lug on the right hand side to go with one of the winder grips or some such, and Mamiya made some of their stock straps to fit those just right. The good news is, someone might want what you have.

For straps, I think one of the best things going for these are the Optech 'boomerangs,' (actually called 'super pro strap' or something like that,) and they can be bought in a version that comes with Mamiya clips. (Actually, that's how I got into the Optech stuff, despite skepticism of potentially-boingey neoprene.

)

Good luck in field trials... I'd definitely take the suggestion of checking the door seals, mine were really bad when my 1000s arrived. (If it comes to changing them, I suggest going to... Who's that fellow with all the instructions online... He sells kits with varying thicknesses quite reasonably, and I think some thinner-than usual stuff is in order here.

)

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 01-09-2010 at 08:59 AM.

Steve Beswick · 01-11-2010, 01:28 AM

Originally posted by Ratmagiclady

It's more than I would have *risked,* but if you have good function, it's not too bad. (especially given the error about the metered finder, I think I might have passed that one up: not that the unmetered finder is anything terrible: it's much lighter and less bulky than the metered ones, and a lot of those meters are just croaking or gone, anyway. Hang onto that piece.

) I think you can spend close to what you did and get one in a better condition from Keh, but I don't think the cosmetics are too hard to fix up, there, either, if that's all that's wrong. (hey, potential excuse to visit cameraleather com.

) If it works, the price differences will be forgotten by you soon enough.

I think you do have a strap from a later model: I think that the Pro and/or Super have a special lug on the right hand side to go with one of the winder grips or some such, and Mamiya made some of their stock straps to fit those just right. The good news is, someone might want what you have.

For straps, I think one of the best things going for these are the Optech 'boomerangs,' (actually called 'super pro strap' or something like that,) and they can be bought in a version that comes with Mamiya clips. (Actually, that's how I got into the Optech stuff, despite skepticism of potentially-boingey neoprene.

)

Good luck in field trials... I'd definitely take the suggestion of checking the door seals, mine were really bad when my 1000s arrived. (If it comes to changing them, I suggest going to... Who's that fellow with all the instructions online... He sells kits with varying thicknesses quite reasonably, and I think some thinner-than usual stuff is in order here.

)

I took a long stare at the door seals. As far as I can tell they are good to go, although the bottom one is somewhat iffy. I went ahead and put a battery in and ran a roll through it. I'll drop the film at the lab on Tuesday and we will see how it is!

Steve Beswick · 01-18-2010, 10:17 PM

I forgot all about this thread. Whoops! I just thought I'd add one more post here for anyone that is curious how things turned out.

I have put a roll of film through both the 1000s and the better of the 645j's, and both seem to have good exposure and proper spacing. KEH said that the speeds were off on this one, but the film tells another story. The odd thing is that using the "test it against another camera approach" the j seems to leave the shutter open just a bit long, but if anything the negatives are a bit thin. Either way I'm splitting hairs here, as the negs are perfectly fine for printing, with plenty of range and no real signs of over or under exposure.

I have yet to put an actual roll through the other j, the "$5 special", but I did reload the backing paper on to a spool and run that through, and it felt just fine. I think I'm going to run an actual roll through and see what I get. I figure if it works I got a great deal on a camera, and if not I got an ok deal on a door stop, or a paper weight, or a wacko flower pot!

In case I didn't mention this before, in the end the decision to go with the Mamiya came down to three things:
1. I had a previous good experience with a C3, so I had a bit of faith in the brand.
2. Going with the Mamiya was slightly cheaper.
3. This is the piece of gear that clenched the deal, and I have one on it's way - 80mm f1.9! Now all I need to do is figure out an economical way to mount it to the front of the K10, and I'll have a great lens for two systems!

Lastly, I have a far to infrequently used phrase for those of you who contributed your thoughts and advice - Thank you!

Ratmagiclady · 01-19-2010, 07:35 AM

Pretty sweet.

Those fast 80mm's are a fun thing.

Sounds like we could start a little Mamiya club right here.

pingflood · 01-19-2010, 08:43 AM

Good luck with the gear! Unfortunately I have not seen any inexpensive Mamiya 645 -> K mount adapters, though they are out there if you're willing to pay the premium.

Ben_Edict · 01-19-2010, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by pingflood

Good luck with the gear! Unfortunately I have not seen any inexpensive Mamiya 645 -> K mount adapters, though they are out there if you're willing to pay the premium.

That's unfortunately too true. I have been looking for quite while, until I found one - but at a price...

Still thinking about making my own one… if anybody has a spare Mamiya 645 camera mount...

Ben

Steve Beswick · 01-20-2010, 01:16 AM

I've thought of taking the "iffy" 645j apart for the flange, but I'm not sure on that one.

Ratmagiclady · 01-20-2010, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Ben_Edict

That's unfortunately too true. I have been looking for quite while, until I found one - but at a price...

Still thinking about making my own one… if anybody has a spare Mamiya 645 camera mount...

Ben

Maybe if there's any more of those As-Is 645Js or the like on Keh?

Wondering if you could sneak one of those on to some little tilt adapter, and have some fun with the bigger image circle. I think I've seen similar things for maybe Pentacon lenses or some such.

pingflood · 01-20-2010, 11:05 AM

Mirex has a tilt/shift adapter for Mamiya 645 -> M42, so that is definitely an option if you want to head that route.

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01-06-2010, 07:49 PM	#16
HGMonaro Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melb. Aust Posts: 840	Originally posted by Steve Beswick Any comments? my 1st M645, a 1000s, probably looks worse (I couldn't tell that the photo's of it supplied at the time but that's another story...) but functions fine. I now use a Pro TL but occasionly put a battery into the 1000s and exercise the shutter. Speaking of batteries, get yourself a spare or two as they aren't something you can buy at a corner store. The other thing I'd suggest is to check the foam seals, especially around the film door as they will leak light with age and wear. Cheers, Nige

01-06-2010, 10:38 PM	#17
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736 Original Poster	Originally posted by HGMonaro my 1st M645, a 1000s, probably looks worse (I couldn't tell that the photo's of it supplied at the time but that's another story...) but functions fine. I now use a Pro TL but occasionly put a battery into the 1000s and exercise the shutter. Speaking of batteries, get yourself a spare or two as they aren't something you can buy at a corner store. The other thing I'd suggest is to check the foam seals, especially around the film door as they will leak light with age and wear. Cheers, Nige Allright, you got me. It's only the scariest one on ebay. Actually, except for the "leather", it's not that bad.

01-07-2010, 04:00 AM	#18
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Congrats for your choice. I opted for the Mamiya 645 system over the Bronica many years ago and am very happy with the choice. First of all, Mamiya has faster glass available ar reasonable prices. Then, I found, that I wouldn't need interchangeable backs (though the later Mamiyas do have those), but instead use two bodies (1000s) and a load of film holders, which can be preloaded and accelarate film change very much. These are dirt cheap now. Also Mamiya as a system is still alive and you can go digital with only adding a body and a back and still use the old lenses - which is a big plus (quite like Pentax...). And also quite like Pentax, the focal plane shutter of the Mamiya allows the use of older and interesting third party glass, like the Pentaxcon Six lenses (the 300/4 is great and the 500/5.6 quite nice and then there is the cheap Kiew 30mm fish-eye - not quite a fish-eye on the 645). I alsways wanted to use my Mamiya 70mm leaf shutter lens with my Pentax DSLR though, just have to assemble something for triggering the combo... Ben

01-08-2010, 03:07 PM	#19
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Hrm, I dunno. It's highly unlikely 'the meter is accurate,' as that's not the metered finder in the pictures... Seems maybe you paid more than you had to, especially for that condition. Could still work, though. Kind of the luck of the draw in these matters.

01-09-2010, 02:00 AM	#20
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736 Original Poster	Originally posted by Ratmagiclady Hrm, I dunno. It's highly unlikely 'the meter is accurate,' as that's not the metered finder in the pictures... Seems maybe you paid more than you had to, especially for that condition. Could still work, though. Kind of the luck of the draw in these matters. I was wondering about that statement as well. I think he meant that the shutter speeds are accurate. Whatever he meant, it showed up today, and it seems to work well. I'll need to get some film tomorrow so I can be sure. I'm really excited! I do have one minor problem though - one of the strap "clips" I have doesn't fit very well. One pops right on, but the other only fits one of the lugs, and thats just barely. I'm under the impression that it is a strap from a later model, so maybe that has something to do with it, or maybe I just have a bad clip! So you think I over paid?

01-09-2010, 08:49 AM	#21
Farside Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ireland Photos: Gallery Posts: 31	Originally posted by HGMonaro Speaking of batteries, get yourself a spare or two as they aren't something you can buy at a corner store. The other thing I'd suggest is to check the foam seals, especially around the film door as they will leak light with age and wear. Cheers, Nige Good point about the batteries - if you find yourself stuck you can use four LR44 alkaline button cells wrapped in a paper tube with a piece of foil in the end to make up the length. It ends up being 6.2V nominal instead of 6V, but that's nothing worth bothering about. To the OP: Nice to know KEH are still knocking out M645Js at rock-bottom prices - I got one last year for $38 including an UG prism. The camera is a delight to use and the prism isn't as UG as it might have been. Currently using it with P6 and Russian glass, with decent results.

01-09-2010, 08:51 AM	#22
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by Steve Beswick I was wondering about that statement as well. I think he meant that the shutter speeds are accurate. Whatever he meant, it showed up today, and it seems to work well. I'll need to get some film tomorrow so I can be sure. I'm really excited! I do have one minor problem though - one of the strap "clips" I have doesn't fit very well. One pops right on, but the other only fits one of the lugs, and thats just barely. I'm under the impression that it is a strap from a later model, so maybe that has something to do with it, or maybe I just have a bad clip! So you think I over paid? It's more than I would have risked, but if you have good function, it's not too bad. (especially given the error about the metered finder, I think I might have passed that one up: not that the unmetered finder is anything terrible: it's much lighter and less bulky than the metered ones, and a lot of those meters are just croaking or gone, anyway. Hang onto that piece. ) I think you can spend close to what you did and get one in a better condition from Keh, but I don't think the cosmetics are too hard to fix up, there, either, if that's all that's wrong. (hey, potential excuse to visit cameraleather com. ) If it works, the price differences will be forgotten by you soon enough. I think you do have a strap from a later model: I think that the Pro and/or Super have a special lug on the right hand side to go with one of the winder grips or some such, and Mamiya made some of their stock straps to fit those just right. The good news is, someone might want what you have. For straps, I think one of the best things going for these are the Optech 'boomerangs,' (actually called 'super pro strap' or something like that,) and they can be bought in a version that comes with Mamiya clips. (Actually, that's how I got into the Optech stuff, despite skepticism of potentially-boingey neoprene. ) Good luck in field trials... I'd definitely take the suggestion of checking the door seals, mine were really bad when my 1000s arrived. (If it comes to changing them, I suggest going to... Who's that fellow with all the instructions online... He sells kits with varying thicknesses quite reasonably, and I think some thinner-than usual stuff is in order here. ) Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 01-09-2010 at 08:59 AM.

01-11-2010, 01:28 AM	#23
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736 Original Poster	Originally posted by Ratmagiclady It's more than I would have risked, but if you have good function, it's not too bad. (especially given the error about the metered finder, I think I might have passed that one up: not that the unmetered finder is anything terrible: it's much lighter and less bulky than the metered ones, and a lot of those meters are just croaking or gone, anyway. Hang onto that piece. ) I think you can spend close to what you did and get one in a better condition from Keh, but I don't think the cosmetics are too hard to fix up, there, either, if that's all that's wrong. (hey, potential excuse to visit cameraleather com. ) If it works, the price differences will be forgotten by you soon enough. I think you do have a strap from a later model: I think that the Pro and/or Super have a special lug on the right hand side to go with one of the winder grips or some such, and Mamiya made some of their stock straps to fit those just right. The good news is, someone might want what you have. For straps, I think one of the best things going for these are the Optech 'boomerangs,' (actually called 'super pro strap' or something like that,) and they can be bought in a version that comes with Mamiya clips. (Actually, that's how I got into the Optech stuff, despite skepticism of potentially-boingey neoprene. ) Good luck in field trials... I'd definitely take the suggestion of checking the door seals, mine were really bad when my 1000s arrived. (If it comes to changing them, I suggest going to... Who's that fellow with all the instructions online... He sells kits with varying thicknesses quite reasonably, and I think some thinner-than usual stuff is in order here. ) I took a long stare at the door seals. As far as I can tell they are good to go, although the bottom one is somewhat iffy. I went ahead and put a battery in and ran a roll through it. I'll drop the film at the lab on Tuesday and we will see how it is!

01-18-2010, 10:17 PM	#24
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736 Original Poster	I forgot all about this thread. Whoops! I just thought I'd add one more post here for anyone that is curious how things turned out. I have put a roll of film through both the 1000s and the better of the 645j's, and both seem to have good exposure and proper spacing. KEH said that the speeds were off on this one, but the film tells another story. The odd thing is that using the "test it against another camera approach" the j seems to leave the shutter open just a bit long, but if anything the negatives are a bit thin. Either way I'm splitting hairs here, as the negs are perfectly fine for printing, with plenty of range and no real signs of over or under exposure. I have yet to put an actual roll through the other j, the "$5 special", but I did reload the backing paper on to a spool and run that through, and it felt just fine. I think I'm going to run an actual roll through and see what I get. I figure if it works I got a great deal on a camera, and if not I got an ok deal on a door stop, or a paper weight, or a wacko flower pot! In case I didn't mention this before, in the end the decision to go with the Mamiya came down to three things: 1. I had a previous good experience with a C3, so I had a bit of faith in the brand. 2. Going with the Mamiya was slightly cheaper. 3. This is the piece of gear that clenched the deal, and I have one on it's way - 80mm f1.9! Now all I need to do is figure out an economical way to mount it to the front of the K10, and I'll have a great lens for two systems! Lastly, I have a far to infrequently used phrase for those of you who contributed your thoughts and advice - Thank you!

01-19-2010, 07:35 AM	#25
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Pretty sweet. Those fast 80mm's are a fun thing. Sounds like we could start a little Mamiya club right here.

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01-19-2010, 08:43 AM	#26
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Good luck with the gear! Unfortunately I have not seen any inexpensive Mamiya 645 -> K mount adapters, though they are out there if you're willing to pay the premium.

01-19-2010, 12:49 PM	#27
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by pingflood Good luck with the gear! Unfortunately I have not seen any inexpensive Mamiya 645 -> K mount adapters, though they are out there if you're willing to pay the premium. That's unfortunately too true. I have been looking for quite while, until I found one - but at a price... Still thinking about making my own one… if anybody has a spare Mamiya 645 camera mount... Ben

01-20-2010, 01:16 AM	#28
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736 Original Poster	I've thought of taking the "iffy" 645j apart for the flange, but I'm not sure on that one.

01-20-2010, 10:55 AM	#29
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by Ben_Edict That's unfortunately too true. I have been looking for quite while, until I found one - but at a price... Still thinking about making my own one… if anybody has a spare Mamiya 645 camera mount... Ben Maybe if there's any more of those As-Is 645Js or the like on Keh? Wondering if you could sneak one of those on to some little tilt adapter, and have some fun with the bigger image circle. I think I've seen similar things for maybe Pentacon lenses or some such.

01-20-2010, 11:05 AM	#30
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Mirex has a tilt/shift adapter for Mamiya 645 -> M42, so that is definitely an option if you want to head that route.