Micro Four Thirds discussion

juu · 01-14-2010, 12:35 AM

Surely some of you run m43 as a 2nd (or perhaps 1st/3rd) system. What are your experiences with it so far?

juu · 01-14-2010, 12:43 AM

I've realized I have a bad back and too much stuff to carry on my outings with small children and all, that the idea of a lighter camera is very appealing, even with the compromises involved.

So I'm seriously considering something like a GF1/EP-1 for landscape photography while hiking and street photography during my business travels (where showing up at a customer's with a DSLR might be frowned upon). And perhaps everything else (photos of my children mostly indoors) as I cannot really afford to run two systems in parallel - my Pentax system is extremely modest now so I'm in a different boat than most of you on that.

I think I can live with worse high-ISO performance and an EVF/lack of a viewfinder. Probably even with lack of WR if it comes with a small size.

However, I'm concerned about the nearly non-existent grips on GF1/EP-1 (and allegedly at least GF1 is quite slippery), and they don't have articulated screens. G1/GH1 are better in this regard but then also take up way too much space so I might as well buy a K-x then. Then there's the choice between poor AF + no kit 20mm (EP-1) and no-IBIS (GF1).

Also, the only UWA option for m43 is the Pana 7-14 for gbp 900 (incidentally, the same as Pentax 12-24). There are some other UWA lenses coming out this year though.

I don't need to upgrade until the next summer vacation so I'm sitting on the fence and hoping Pentax comes out with a (WR!?) EVIL camera, though I think the chances are slim.

A semi-related thread I started comparing the different options I personally have:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/86172-system-compa...resistant.html

Does this make sense to anyone?

WerTicus · 01-14-2010, 01:31 AM

Id like a smaller system like micro 4/3 however there is crap all lenses out for it.

pxpaulx · 01-14-2010, 07:32 AM

I have a GF1/pancake and 45-200 on order from Panasonic - having given one a try in the local shop I think it has a place as an always with you type of camera, one that is at least jacket-pocketable.

I think the 45-200 is a decent focal range, almost the same as the 55-300 (well, closer to the 60-250 but who is counting!). The 20mm pancake looks to be a very well made lens. I would also consider the 7-14mm but even thought it is wider than the 12-24, the lack of filter threads is kind of a turn off with this lens. The only thing I would have a problem with is if the distortion at the wide end were similar to the 10-20mm on APS-C (I don't like the edge distortion, it is just too much with that lens, and probably similar with the 7-14). I do think a combination of those 3 lenses is a killer small kit combination (7-14, 20 and 45-200).

I will probably be saying goodbye to my K20d shortly (haven't decided what I will fund the GF1 just yet), sadly I haven't used it at all since getting the K-x. I am going to hold onto the grip with the faint hope they will actually release a KxxD replacement (though it is quite clear the K7 is it).

Wheatfield · 01-14-2010, 07:43 AM

I have a few friends who are using Panasonic 4/3 cameras as second string cameras.
According to them, the image quality is OK up to about ISO800 (much like Pentax in that regard).
Neither one is using them for their "serious" shooting due to poor imaging compared to their Nikon or Canon SLRS (D300, D700 and D7 respectively), but they do use them when they want a smaller package to shoot with and are willing to compromise image quality for convenience.

Samsungian · 01-14-2010, 07:45 AM

Panasonic GF1 & 45-200mm & Willie Nelson a couple nights ago...

GF1 Shoots Willie Nelson - The GetDPI Photography Forums

juu · 01-14-2010, 07:53 AM

pxpaulx, please let me know how usable you will find the GF1 with the 45-200mm lens. When I tried it in store even with the kit 14-45 it seemed like the grip is not big enough and too slippery - but perhaps it's just getting used to that is required.

mhoy · 01-14-2010, 07:54 AM

juu,

I just sold my K10d + lenses for a GF1 w/ pancake. I've only used it for a day now, but I'm super, super impressed, and although I'll miss the Pentax, I know I'll actually use this thing. I don't have the EVF (and I've heard mixed things about it) and using the screen at first is odd, but I can see *much* more detail with it than the K10's viewfinder, at least so long as I'm not in direct sunlight.

For me, it's like an SLR that's a reasonable size for taking it most everywhere. I think in my case, it's an excellent 1st system -- but I'm not using it to make huge prints or anything. I'm also quite happy with the 20mm.

juu · 01-14-2010, 07:57 AM

Samsungian, those are impressive shots.

Originally posted by mhoy

I can see *much* more detail with it than the K10's viewfinder, at least so long as I'm not in direct sunlight.

My eyesight is quite bad even with glasses, and using glasses with the optical viewfinder isn't great. Basically I find it nearly impossible to MF on my K100D.

Which is why I think maybe for me using the LCD might be an improvement, especially as it zooms in upon MF.

Quote:

I'm also quite happy with the 20mm.

Everybody seems to love that lens.

Do you miss the proper grip from your K10D much? Does your GF1 feel like a clumsy compact camera (that still takes great pictures) or is it better than that?

mhoy · 01-14-2010, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by juu

Which is why I think maybe for me using the LCD might be an improvement, especially as it zooms in upon MF.

Definitely. It also has a nice MF assist feature: when you're focusing, the LCD crops to 100% for detail. In some situations I've found it very useful. You can turn this off if it's annoying.

EDIT: oops, yeah, you knew about that.

Originally posted by juu

Do you miss the proper grip from your K10D much? Does your GF1 feel like a clumsy compact camera (that still takes great pictures) or is it better than that?

A little. I have small hands, and the GF1 feels OK in them. My fingers do cram a little on the front if I try to hold it tightly. But a good grip seems less important with the camera further out in front of me and weighing significantly less. I probably need a good week of use to know, though. If you're lucky enough to have a camera shop nearby with one in stock (I was... still can't believe it!) you should try it out.

As for the build, it's very solid, alloy construction. I'm not too rough on my cameras but this feels like it could handle a few bumps.

pxpaulx · 01-14-2010, 08:26 AM

Juu - I actually tried the 45-200 in-store as well - it is of course alot larger than the pancake! But, I though it felt pretty well suited to the camera (then again I think the 50-135 works well on the K-x, so what do I know!). It sat in my palm and the zoom ring was pretty easy to use. I didn't get to try the 14-45 so can't compare to that lens.

Mhoy - I also tried out the viewfinder and found it lacking (had intended on ordering it but decided against). It is bright, but low resolution and quite small - somewhat tunnel-like. I was also blown away with the LCD on the GF1, it is so much better than the K-x (or other Pentax cameras), and the screen refresh rate makes movement appear very smooth and natural to my eye (of course you already know that part!).

mhoy · 01-14-2010, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by pxpaulx

I was also blown away with the LCD on the GF1, it is so much better than the K-x (or other Pentax cameras), and the screen refresh rate makes movement appear very smooth and natural to my eye (of course you already know that part!).

Yes -- good point, the refresh rate is huge, and I'm thinking now that slower refresh rates are the reason why I've never quite liked other LCDs I've used. It's hard to describe, you really have to use one in person.

pxpaulx · 01-14-2010, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by mhoy

Yes -- good point, the refresh rate is huge, and I'm thinking now that slower refresh rates are the reason why I've never quite liked other LCDs I've used. It's hard to describe, you really have to use one in person.

Absolutely - this was the first thing I noticed handling the GF1, how great the screen is. I've read it isn't great outdoors, I may end up getting one of those delkin screen covers to use with it.

I called about my GF1 last night (to see order status, as it just changed on the panny site from backordered to in-stock). I also asked about shipping upgrade (which I would pay for) and they said the warehouse would call when the order prints there. Just got a call from their warehouse that the order printed and will ship in 1-3 days! I'm hoping maybe today - it is coming from Illinois (to Minnesota, opted not to upgrade shipping), and if it ships today (even maybe tomorrow) I could potentially get it Monday, which I have off for the holiday! I wasn't expecting to get it this fast, and am getting excited (can you tell?).

Clicker · 01-15-2010, 07:49 AM

my M43 is Pentax

juu · 01-17-2010, 06:33 AM

BTW I made a quick comparison between GF1 and K-x for some system options:

My needs are likely different than yours, and there are a couple of caveats in the Notes section, but perhaps you might find this interesting.

If I'd have compared the K-x w/ the Sigma 10-20 instead of the Pentax 12-24 then the situation would be a lot different with K-x presenting an even more significant price advantage, even $1628 vs $2939 in the US full kit case. However, I felt the Pentax 12-24 was a more appropriate alternative for the Panasonic 7-14.

I think it is easier to shoot with the K-x as well, with a better grip and ergonomics.

Still, for the non-tele kit in the UK the GF1 price premium is only 8% with a fairly significant weight reduction in the 30% range in most configurations.

01-14-2010, 12:35 AM	#1
juu Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 680	Micro Four Thirds discussion Surely some of you run m43 as a 2nd (or perhaps 1st/3rd) system. What are your experiences with it so far?

01-14-2010, 12:43 AM	#2
juu Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 680 Original Poster	I've realized I have a bad back and too much stuff to carry on my outings with small children and all, that the idea of a lighter camera is very appealing, even with the compromises involved. So I'm seriously considering something like a GF1/EP-1 for landscape photography while hiking and street photography during my business travels (where showing up at a customer's with a DSLR might be frowned upon). And perhaps everything else (photos of my children mostly indoors) as I cannot really afford to run two systems in parallel - my Pentax system is extremely modest now so I'm in a different boat than most of you on that. I think I can live with worse high-ISO performance and an EVF/lack of a viewfinder. Probably even with lack of WR if it comes with a small size. However, I'm concerned about the nearly non-existent grips on GF1/EP-1 (and allegedly at least GF1 is quite slippery), and they don't have articulated screens. G1/GH1 are better in this regard but then also take up way too much space so I might as well buy a K-x then. Then there's the choice between poor AF + no kit 20mm (EP-1) and no-IBIS (GF1). Also, the only UWA option for m43 is the Pana 7-14 for gbp 900 (incidentally, the same as Pentax 12-24). There are some other UWA lenses coming out this year though. I don't need to upgrade until the next summer vacation so I'm sitting on the fence and hoping Pentax comes out with a (WR!?) EVIL camera, though I think the chances are slim. A semi-related thread I started comparing the different options I personally have: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/86172-system-compa...resistant.html Does this make sense to anyone? Last edited by juu; 01-14-2010 at 07:59 AM.

01-14-2010, 07:45 AM	#6
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	Panasonic GF1 & 45-200mm & Willie Nelson a couple nights ago Panasonic GF1 & 45-200mm & Willie Nelson a couple nights ago... GF1 Shoots Willie Nelson - The GetDPI Photography Forums

01-14-2010, 08:12 AM	#10
mhoy Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Boston Posts: 62	Originally posted by juu Which is why I think maybe for me using the LCD might be an improvement, especially as it zooms in upon MF. Definitely. It also has a nice MF assist feature: when you're focusing, the LCD crops to 100% for detail. In some situations I've found it very useful. You can turn this off if it's annoying. EDIT: oops, yeah, you knew about that. Originally posted by juu Do you miss the proper grip from your K10D much? Does your GF1 feel like a clumsy compact camera (that still takes great pictures) or is it better than that? A little. I have small hands, and the GF1 feels OK in them. My fingers do cram a little on the front if I try to hold it tightly. But a good grip seems less important with the camera further out in front of me and weighing significantly less. I probably need a good week of use to know, though. If you're lucky enough to have a camera shop nearby with one in stock (I was... still can't believe it!) you should try it out. As for the build, it's very solid, alloy construction. I'm not too rough on my cameras but this feels like it could handle a few bumps. Last edited by mhoy; 01-14-2010 at 08:22 AM.

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01-14-2010, 01:31 AM	#3
WerTicus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Perth Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,514	Id like a smaller system like micro 4/3 however there is crap all lenses out for it.

01-14-2010, 07:32 AM	#4
pxpaulx Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 2,867	I have a GF1/pancake and 45-200 on order from Panasonic - having given one a try in the local shop I think it has a place as an always with you type of camera, one that is at least jacket-pocketable. I think the 45-200 is a decent focal range, almost the same as the 55-300 (well, closer to the 60-250 but who is counting!). The 20mm pancake looks to be a very well made lens. I would also consider the 7-14mm but even thought it is wider than the 12-24, the lack of filter threads is kind of a turn off with this lens. The only thing I would have a problem with is if the distortion at the wide end were similar to the 10-20mm on APS-C (I don't like the edge distortion, it is just too much with that lens, and probably similar with the 7-14). I do think a combination of those 3 lenses is a killer small kit combination (7-14, 20 and 45-200). I will probably be saying goodbye to my K20d shortly (haven't decided what I will fund the GF1 just yet), sadly I haven't used it at all since getting the K-x. I am going to hold onto the grip with the faint hope they will actually release a KxxD replacement (though it is quite clear the K7 is it).

01-14-2010, 07:43 AM	#5
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	I have a few friends who are using Panasonic 4/3 cameras as second string cameras. According to them, the image quality is OK up to about ISO800 (much like Pentax in that regard). Neither one is using them for their "serious" shooting due to poor imaging compared to their Nikon or Canon SLRS (D300, D700 and D7 respectively), but they do use them when they want a smaller package to shoot with and are willing to compromise image quality for convenience.

01-14-2010, 07:53 AM	#7
juu Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 680 Original Poster	pxpaulx, please let me know how usable you will find the GF1 with the 45-200mm lens. When I tried it in store even with the kit 14-45 it seemed like the grip is not big enough and too slippery - but perhaps it's just getting used to that is required.

01-14-2010, 07:54 AM	#8
mhoy Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Boston Posts: 62	juu, I just sold my K10d + lenses for a GF1 w/ pancake. I've only used it for a day now, but I'm super, super impressed, and although I'll miss the Pentax, I know I'll actually use this thing. I don't have the EVF (and I've heard mixed things about it) and using the screen at first is odd, but I can see much more detail with it than the K10's viewfinder, at least so long as I'm not in direct sunlight. For me, it's like an SLR that's a reasonable size for taking it most everywhere. I think in my case, it's an excellent 1st system -- but I'm not using it to make huge prints or anything. I'm also quite happy with the 20mm.

01-14-2010, 07:57 AM	#9
juu Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 680 Original Poster	Samsungian, those are impressive shots. Originally posted by mhoy I can see much more detail with it than the K10's viewfinder, at least so long as I'm not in direct sunlight. My eyesight is quite bad even with glasses, and using glasses with the optical viewfinder isn't great. Basically I find it nearly impossible to MF on my K100D. Which is why I think maybe for me using the LCD might be an improvement, especially as it zooms in upon MF. Quote: I'm also quite happy with the 20mm. Everybody seems to love that lens. Do you miss the proper grip from your K10D much? Does your GF1 feel like a clumsy compact camera (that still takes great pictures) or is it better than that?

01-14-2010, 08:26 AM	#11
pxpaulx Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 2,867	Juu - I actually tried the 45-200 in-store as well - it is of course alot larger than the pancake! But, I though it felt pretty well suited to the camera (then again I think the 50-135 works well on the K-x, so what do I know!). It sat in my palm and the zoom ring was pretty easy to use. I didn't get to try the 14-45 so can't compare to that lens. Mhoy - I also tried out the viewfinder and found it lacking (had intended on ordering it but decided against). It is bright, but low resolution and quite small - somewhat tunnel-like. I was also blown away with the LCD on the GF1, it is so much better than the K-x (or other Pentax cameras), and the screen refresh rate makes movement appear very smooth and natural to my eye (of course you already know that part!).

01-14-2010, 08:35 AM	#12
mhoy Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Boston Posts: 62	Originally posted by pxpaulx I was also blown away with the LCD on the GF1, it is so much better than the K-x (or other Pentax cameras), and the screen refresh rate makes movement appear very smooth and natural to my eye (of course you already know that part!). Yes -- good point, the refresh rate is huge, and I'm thinking now that slower refresh rates are the reason why I've never quite liked other LCDs I've used. It's hard to describe, you really have to use one in person.

01-14-2010, 10:00 AM	#13
pxpaulx Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 2,867	Originally posted by mhoy Yes -- good point, the refresh rate is huge, and I'm thinking now that slower refresh rates are the reason why I've never quite liked other LCDs I've used. It's hard to describe, you really have to use one in person. Absolutely - this was the first thing I noticed handling the GF1, how great the screen is. I've read it isn't great outdoors, I may end up getting one of those delkin screen covers to use with it. I called about my GF1 last night (to see order status, as it just changed on the panny site from backordered to in-stock). I also asked about shipping upgrade (which I would pay for) and they said the warehouse would call when the order prints there. Just got a call from their warehouse that the order printed and will ship in 1-3 days! I'm hoping maybe today - it is coming from Illinois (to Minnesota, opted not to upgrade shipping), and if it ships today (even maybe tomorrow) I could potentially get it Monday, which I have off for the holiday! I wasn't expecting to get it this fast, and am getting excited (can you tell?).

01-15-2010, 07:49 AM	#14
Clicker Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,241	my M43 is Pentax

01-17-2010, 06:33 AM	#15
juu Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 680 Original Poster	BTW I made a quick comparison between GF1 and K-x for some system options: My needs are likely different than yours, and there are a couple of caveats in the Notes section, but perhaps you might find this interesting. If I'd have compared the K-x w/ the Sigma 10-20 instead of the Pentax 12-24 then the situation would be a lot different with K-x presenting an even more significant price advantage, even $1628 vs $2939 in the US full kit case. However, I felt the Pentax 12-24 was a more appropriate alternative for the Panasonic 7-14. I think it is easier to shoot with the K-x as well, with a better grip and ergonomics. Still, for the non-tele kit in the UK the GF1 price premium is only 8% with a fairly significant weight reduction in the 30% range in most configurations.