New Mamiya out today...

Cambo · 03-08-2010, 01:08 PM

at $20,000.00 body only. If the Pentax 645D comes in below $10,000.00, I think they'll have a winner on their hands, relatively speaking.

Cheers,
Cameron

knoxploration · 03-08-2010, 02:29 PM

The announcement was actually made a week ago:

MAMIYA: News & Events | Press Releases | Mamiya Introduces New DM40

It's not $20,000 body-only, it's $20,000 for the *camera back* only. The kit version with the M645DF body and an 80mm F2.8 D lens adds another $2,000, for a total kit price of $22,000.

elho_cid · 03-08-2010, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by Cambo

at $20,000.00 body only. If the Pentax 645D comes in below $10,000.00, I think they'll have a winner on their hands, relatively speaking.

Cheers,
Cameron

But I don't see it coming so cheap. If MF camera buyers are willing to pay the price, why wuld they directly put it cheap? Just to please the photographers?

lesmore49 · 03-08-2010, 04:33 PM

Mamiya make good cameras and lenses. I've had a Mamiya medium format system...one body, three lenses since '85.

Nothing like MF...or large format.

I know some say full frame is the new MF, but that just tells me they haven't much experience with a MF system, either film or digital.

But 22 Grand is a lot of money to buy into the system, then there's the additional lenses, etc. Although I think Mamiya may have an intro offer, throwing in a lens with the new body if you buy by....?

I think if Pentax bring their 645 D in around $ 7K to $ 8K and it's as good as their old film 645 they may have something, market wise.

pingflood · 03-08-2010, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by lesmore49

I think if Pentax bring their 645 D in around $ 7K to $ 8K and it's as good as their old film 645 they may have something, market wise.

They'd have "something" indeed -- would love to see it happen but I can't imagine it being doable.

ogl · 03-08-2010, 09:18 PM

MAMIYA, SINAR, ALPA, PHASE ONE use Phase One and DALSA co-developed sensors.

HASSELBLAD and LEICA - KODAK

Vaizard · 03-09-2010, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by lesmore49

I think if Pentax bring their 645 D in around $ 7K to $ 8K and it's as good as their old film 645 they may have something, market wise.

neh, never gonna happen, if they bring it in around $12.000 to $15.000 it's still cheap for a 40MP MF..

Asahiflex · 03-09-2010, 01:01 AM

Let's not forget that Mamiya does not have the immense (!) advantage of using the electronic components from their existing cheaper DSLR's (because they do not have any). The 645D on the other hand will consist of many parts that have been used in the K-7 already, so it's much, much cheaper to produce (economics of scale).

Mamiya also has the big disadvantage that the older lenses only work stopped down (i.e. fully manual) but Pentax always had the "A" lens coupling on the 645 lenses, so the lenses are still usable. From the press release: "Compatible with Mamiya 645 MF lenses without adapter (stop down mode)"

The 645D has the potential to take over the MF digital market by surprise... And kill at least Leica and Mamiya in the process.

EricT · 03-09-2010, 02:36 AM

Originally posted by Asahiflex

The 645D has the potential to take over the MF digital market by surprise... And kill at least Leica and Mamiya in the process.

I thought the 645D was going to be a limited production run, and only for the Japanese market?

ogl · 03-09-2010, 02:42 AM

Originally posted by EricT

I thought the 645D was going to be a limited production run, and only for the Japanese market?

Do you think if there is any sense to spend SO MUCH money for 645D project during 5 last years and sale 645D only in Japan???

ghelary · 03-09-2010, 03:41 AM

Originally posted by EricT

I thought the 645D was going to be a limited production run, and only for the Japanese market?

Originally posted by ogl

Do you think if there is any sense to spend SO MUCH money for 645D project during 5 last years and sale 645D only in Japan???

My understanding is that the 645D will be released in Japan first, then in Europe, then in US. It is understandable since this system will require specific ressources and support.

Anyway, Hoya will talk about its plan only at the release of the camera in a few days.

falconeye · 03-09-2010, 07:02 AM

Originally posted by Asahiflex

And kill at least Leica and Mamiya in the process.

Leica has never been killed by undercutting their prices. And the S2 isn't even more expensive than Hasselblad or the new Mamiya.

Asahiflex · 03-09-2010, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

Leica has never been killed by undercutting their prices. And the S2 isn't even more expensive than Hasselblad or the new Mamiya.

So let's assume that the 645D will be on par with Hasselblad, Mamiya and Leica with regards to resolution and detail. What would be the USP of those three systems that Pentax doesn't offer?

Or, in other words: if you were a pro, why would you buy the Leica for $20,000 and not the Pentax for US$10,000? What does Leica offer that Pentax doesn't (besides Leica's brand name)?

falconeye · 03-09-2010, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by Asahiflex

What would be the USP of those three systems that Pentax doesn't offer?

I don't know for Hasselblad and Mamiya. I read some comments from Hasselblad users how much better the build quality and ergonomics is from the S2. A $10,000 price difference is nothing to care about for a successful pro. To be welcomed, treated well and be recognized by the camera maker of choice is much more important.

It remains to be seen if the 645D plays in one league quality-wise with Leica, or rather in one league with Hasselblad. I agree that the USPs for Hasselblad may be their support network and spectrum of products rather than their actual product. Pentax certainly cannot afford to deliver de-centered lenses, mis-calibrated cameras, misaligned focus screens, breaking SDM motors etc. into the MF market. They didn't do so in the analog era but started to have some quality issues recently (like other mass market dSLR vendors). Where will Pentax assemble their MF lenses and where does Leica?

AndrewG NY · 03-09-2010, 09:03 AM

That new DM40 isn't Mamiya's entry-level at $20K. They already have a DM22 kit including camera and standard lens for only $10K. The back alone is $8K. There's also a DM28 kit for $15K.

What does it mean for Pentax's 645D? I don't know.

03-08-2010, 01:08 PM	#1
Cambo Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,016	New Mamiya out today... at $20,000.00 body only. If the Pentax 645D comes in below $10,000.00, I think they'll have a winner on their hands, relatively speaking. Cheers, Cameron

03-09-2010, 07:43 AM	#14
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Asahiflex What would be the USP of those three systems that Pentax doesn't offer? I don't know for Hasselblad and Mamiya. I read some comments from Hasselblad users how much better the build quality and ergonomics is from the S2. A $10,000 price difference is nothing to care about for a successful pro. To be welcomed, treated well and be recognized by the camera maker of choice is much more important. It remains to be seen if the 645D plays in one league quality-wise with Leica, or rather in one league with Hasselblad. I agree that the USPs for Hasselblad may be their support network and spectrum of products rather than their actual product. Pentax certainly cannot afford to deliver de-centered lenses, mis-calibrated cameras, misaligned focus screens, breaking SDM motors etc. into the MF market. They didn't do so in the analog era but started to have some quality issues recently (like other mass market dSLR vendors). Where will Pentax assemble their MF lenses and where does Leica? Last edited by falconeye; 03-09-2010 at 07:52 AM.

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03-08-2010, 02:29 PM	#2
knoxploration Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 846	The announcement was actually made a week ago: MAMIYA: News & Events \| Press Releases \| Mamiya Introduces New DM40 It's not $20,000 body-only, it's $20,000 for the camera back only. The kit version with the M645DF body and an 80mm F2.8 D lens adds another $2,000, for a total kit price of $22,000.

03-08-2010, 04:09 PM	#3
elho_cid Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Prague Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by Cambo at $20,000.00 body only. If the Pentax 645D comes in below $10,000.00, I think they'll have a winner on their hands, relatively speaking. Cheers, Cameron But I don't see it coming so cheap. If MF camera buyers are willing to pay the price, why wuld they directly put it cheap? Just to please the photographers?

03-08-2010, 04:33 PM	#4
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,349	Mamiya make good cameras and lenses. I've had a Mamiya medium format system...one body, three lenses since '85. Nothing like MF...or large format. I know some say full frame is the new MF, but that just tells me they haven't much experience with a MF system, either film or digital. But 22 Grand is a lot of money to buy into the system, then there's the additional lenses, etc. Although I think Mamiya may have an intro offer, throwing in a lens with the new body if you buy by....? I think if Pentax bring their 645 D in around $ 7K to $ 8K and it's as good as their old film 645 they may have something, market wise.

03-08-2010, 06:28 PM	#5
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by lesmore49 I think if Pentax bring their 645 D in around $ 7K to $ 8K and it's as good as their old film 645 they may have something, market wise. They'd have "something" indeed -- would love to see it happen but I can't imagine it being doable.

03-08-2010, 09:18 PM	#6
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	MAMIYA, SINAR, ALPA, PHASE ONE use Phase One and DALSA co-developed sensors. HASSELBLAD and LEICA - KODAK

03-09-2010, 12:34 AM	#7
Vaizard New Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Netherlands Posts: 14	Originally posted by lesmore49 I think if Pentax bring their 645 D in around $ 7K to $ 8K and it's as good as their old film 645 they may have something, market wise. neh, never gonna happen, if they bring it in around $12.000 to $15.000 it's still cheap for a 40MP MF..

03-09-2010, 01:01 AM	#8
Asahiflex Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,795	Let's not forget that Mamiya does not have the immense (!) advantage of using the electronic components from their existing cheaper DSLR's (because they do not have any). The 645D on the other hand will consist of many parts that have been used in the K-7 already, so it's much, much cheaper to produce (economics of scale). Mamiya also has the big disadvantage that the older lenses only work stopped down (i.e. fully manual) but Pentax always had the "A" lens coupling on the 645 lenses, so the lenses are still usable. From the press release: "Compatible with Mamiya 645 MF lenses without adapter (stop down mode)" The 645D has the potential to take over the MF digital market by surprise... And kill at least Leica and Mamiya in the process.

03-09-2010, 02:36 AM	#9
EricT Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 484	Originally posted by Asahiflex The 645D has the potential to take over the MF digital market by surprise... And kill at least Leica and Mamiya in the process. I thought the 645D was going to be a limited production run, and only for the Japanese market?

03-09-2010, 02:42 AM	#10
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by EricT I thought the 645D was going to be a limited production run, and only for the Japanese market? Do you think if there is any sense to spend SO MUCH money for 645D project during 5 last years and sale 645D only in Japan???

03-09-2010, 03:41 AM	#11
ghelary Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 613	Originally posted by EricT I thought the 645D was going to be a limited production run, and only for the Japanese market? Originally posted by ogl Do you think if there is any sense to spend SO MUCH money for 645D project during 5 last years and sale 645D only in Japan??? My understanding is that the 645D will be released in Japan first, then in Europe, then in US. It is understandable since this system will require specific ressources and support. Anyway, Hoya will talk about its plan only at the release of the camera in a few days.

03-09-2010, 07:02 AM	#12
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Asahiflex And kill at least Leica and Mamiya in the process. Leica has never been killed by undercutting their prices. And the S2 isn't even more expensive than Hasselblad or the new Mamiya.

03-09-2010, 07:16 AM	#13
Asahiflex Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,795	Originally posted by falconeye Leica has never been killed by undercutting their prices. And the S2 isn't even more expensive than Hasselblad or the new Mamiya. So let's assume that the 645D will be on par with Hasselblad, Mamiya and Leica with regards to resolution and detail. What would be the USP of those three systems that Pentax doesn't offer? Or, in other words: if you were a pro, why would you buy the Leica for $20,000 and not the Pentax for US$10,000? What does Leica offer that Pentax doesn't (besides Leica's brand name)?

03-09-2010, 09:03 AM	#15
AndrewG NY Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chappaqua, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 688	That new DM40 isn't Mamiya's entry-level at $20K. They already have a DM22 kit including camera and standard lens for only $10K. The back alone is $8K. There's also a DM28 kit for $15K. What does it mean for Pentax's 645D? I don't know.