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RolloR · 09-21-2010, 04:24 AM

What about this one?

46MP, 4800x3200x3

how does that work?

K-9 · 09-21-2010, 04:30 AM

It has three 15.3MP color sensors. Something like the sensor records 1 each of red, green, and blue, thus making the total 46MP. The camera interested me for all of about 2 seconds, until I found out the price is at least $1000 and it has no video at all.

RolloR · 09-21-2010, 04:35 AM

Originally posted by K-9

It has three 15.3MP color sensors. Something like the sensor records 1 each of red, green, and blue, thus making the total 46MP. The camera interested me for all of about 2 seconds, until I found out the price is at least $1000 and it has no video at all.

ah so the files will be 4800x3200 pixels still

yeah it has no video. which got me super interested with the new GH2 wow

JohnBee · 09-21-2010, 04:42 AM

I saw that!

If the price is right, this could become one heck of a studio solution.
Might even pose a threat to the medium format bodies!

Erik · 09-21-2010, 06:37 AM

Originally posted by K-9

It has three 15.3MP color sensors. Something like the sensor records 1 each of red, green, and blue, thus making the total 46MP. The camera interested me for all of about 2 seconds, until I found out the price is at least $1000 and it has no video at all.

If this delivers the same amount of pixel-level detail as the 4.6 MP Foveon sensors did, but at 15.3 MP, then $1000 is an absolute ridiculous bargain if your #1 priority is image quality. The Pentax K-5, for example, at 16 MP and around the same price, will have NOWHERE NEAR the resolution. Not even in the same ballpark.

Video is impossible with Foveon sensors due to the way they work. That's a bummer I guess, but if video is a priority you wouldn't be looking at a Foveon camera in the first place. Plenty of other options.

dgaies · 09-21-2010, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by K-9

It has three 15.3MP color sensors. Something like the sensor records 1 each of red, green, and blue, thus making the total 46MP. The camera interested me for all of about 2 seconds, until I found out the price is at least $1000 and it has no video at all.

I'd pay $1000 for the sensor alone... even if it does come in a Sigma body

er1kksen · 09-21-2010, 07:37 AM

It'll have greater resolution than your average 15mp camera, probably rivaling a 20-30mp sensor (we'll have to see) but it's really not going to rival MF in its usual applications. The difference in format size has some subtle but important effects, and the foveon sensors have always had some IQ issues (weird colors in particular) holding them back. If this sensor solves that, great. It'll also be interesting to see if it's competitive with the current bayer sensors in low light.

deejjjaaaa · 09-21-2010, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by Erik

Video is impossible with Foveon sensors due to the way they work.

Erik, I have video and liveview on DP2 right now... yes, it is not 1080p - but it is possible...

deejjjaaaa · 09-21-2010, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by er1kksen

I It'll also be interesting to see if it's competitive with the current bayer sensors in low light.

people do not buy Foveon to compete in low light, it is a day light/studio light sensor

deejjjaaaa · 09-21-2010, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by dgaies

I'd pay $1000 for the sensor alone... even if it does come in a Sigma body

Sigma hinted at Canon 7D price level (USD $1500-1800)

deejjjaaaa · 09-21-2010, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by RolloR

ah so the files will be 4800x3200 pixels still

that will be 4800x3200 non demosaiced (and no AA filter) resolution... and as such it will smoke any APS-C sensor in production @ base (+1, may be 2 stops from that) ISO and daylight... and sub 24mp FF sensors as well... but of course not in high ISO and not in artificial/low light situations.

axl · 09-21-2010, 10:20 AM

now this looks mighty impressive!
We'll see about the price and performance... but if it'll have comparable results @ ISO800-1000 to my K10D I may really think about this one!

with 10-20
24/1.8, 30/1.4, 50/1.4 and 85/1.4 it would be a helluva setup!

er1kksen · 09-21-2010, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by deejjjaaaa

people do not buy Foveon to compete in low light, it is a day light/studio light sensor

Back when the DP1 was the only large-sensor compact around, some people did.

But like I said, it'll be interesting to see if they've caught up at all on that front.

deejjjaaaa · 09-21-2010, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by er1kksen

Back when the DP1 was the only large-sensor compact around, some people did.

But like I said, it'll be interesting to see if they've caught up at all on that front.

I doubt that there will be any significant high ISO advances... double TRUE II speaks about ISO3200 max and not really anything better than DP2/SD15 generation Foveon... ok may be a 1 stop more, but those ISOs are nowhere near regular sensors past say ISO400

Class A · 09-21-2010, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by RolloR

46MP

Should be "MD" (megadots), really.

But bayer-matrix sensors are also marketed with "MP", even though they only feature dots as well.

A dot has a single colour whereas a pixel has three (RGB) colour components.

It is not straightforward to compare the true Foveon pixels to the dots of a bayer-matrix sensor since a good demosaicing algorithm can extract much more colour resolution out of a bayer-matrix RAW then a naive dot-binning algorithm which would only yield a pixel/dot ratio of 1/3.

Foveon sensors are completely free of colour moiré issues, so they don't need AA filters for this purpose which helps with image sharpness. They should still benefit from some AA for avoiding luminance moiré.

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09-21-2010, 04:24 AM	#1
RolloR Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 264	Sigma SD1: 46MP? What about this one? 46MP, 4800x3200x3 how does that work?

09-21-2010, 04:30 AM	#2
K-9 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: USA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,971	It has three 15.3MP color sensors. Something like the sensor records 1 each of red, green, and blue, thus making the total 46MP. The camera interested me for all of about 2 seconds, until I found out the price is at least $1000 and it has no video at all.

09-21-2010, 04:35 AM	#3
RolloR Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 264 Original Poster	Originally posted by K-9 It has three 15.3MP color sensors. Something like the sensor records 1 each of red, green, and blue, thus making the total 46MP. The camera interested me for all of about 2 seconds, until I found out the price is at least $1000 and it has no video at all. ah so the files will be 4800x3200 pixels still yeah it has no video. which got me super interested with the new GH2 wow

09-21-2010, 04:42 AM	#4
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	I saw that! If the price is right, this could become one heck of a studio solution. Might even pose a threat to the medium format bodies!

09-21-2010, 06:37 AM	#5
Erik Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 755	Originally posted by K-9 It has three 15.3MP color sensors. Something like the sensor records 1 each of red, green, and blue, thus making the total 46MP. The camera interested me for all of about 2 seconds, until I found out the price is at least $1000 and it has no video at all. If this delivers the same amount of pixel-level detail as the 4.6 MP Foveon sensors did, but at 15.3 MP, then $1000 is an absolute ridiculous bargain if your #1 priority is image quality. The Pentax K-5, for example, at 16 MP and around the same price, will have NOWHERE NEAR the resolution. Not even in the same ballpark. Video is impossible with Foveon sensors due to the way they work. That's a bummer I guess, but if video is a priority you wouldn't be looking at a Foveon camera in the first place. Plenty of other options.

09-21-2010, 06:53 AM	#6
dgaies Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Maryland / Washington DC Posts: 3,917	Originally posted by K-9 It has three 15.3MP color sensors. Something like the sensor records 1 each of red, green, and blue, thus making the total 46MP. The camera interested me for all of about 2 seconds, until I found out the price is at least $1000 and it has no video at all. I'd pay $1000 for the sensor alone... even if it does come in a Sigma body

09-21-2010, 07:37 AM	#7
er1kksen Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Forestville, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,801	It'll have greater resolution than your average 15mp camera, probably rivaling a 20-30mp sensor (we'll have to see) but it's really not going to rival MF in its usual applications. The difference in format size has some subtle but important effects, and the foveon sensors have always had some IQ issues (weird colors in particular) holding them back. If this sensor solves that, great. It'll also be interesting to see if it's competitive with the current bayer sensors in low light.

09-21-2010, 08:44 AM	#8
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by Erik Video is impossible with Foveon sensors due to the way they work. Erik, I have video and liveview on DP2 right now... yes, it is not 1080p - but it is possible...

09-21-2010, 08:47 AM	#9
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by er1kksen I It'll also be interesting to see if it's competitive with the current bayer sensors in low light. people do not buy Foveon to compete in low light, it is a day light/studio light sensor

09-21-2010, 08:47 AM	#10
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by dgaies I'd pay $1000 for the sensor alone... even if it does come in a Sigma body Sigma hinted at Canon 7D price level (USD $1500-1800)

09-21-2010, 08:53 AM	#11
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by RolloR ah so the files will be 4800x3200 pixels still that will be 4800x3200 non demosaiced (and no AA filter) resolution... and as such it will smoke any APS-C sensor in production @ base (+1, may be 2 stops from that) ISO and daylight... and sub 24mp FF sensors as well... but of course not in high ISO and not in artificial/low light situations.

09-21-2010, 10:20 AM	#12
axl Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nove Zamky, Slovakia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,183	now this looks mighty impressive! We'll see about the price and performance... but if it'll have comparable results @ ISO800-1000 to my K10D I may really think about this one! with 10-20 24/1.8, 30/1.4, 50/1.4 and 85/1.4 it would be a helluva setup!

09-21-2010, 12:34 PM	#13
er1kksen Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Forestville, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,801	Originally posted by deejjjaaaa people do not buy Foveon to compete in low light, it is a day light/studio light sensor Back when the DP1 was the only large-sensor compact around, some people did. But like I said, it'll be interesting to see if they've caught up at all on that front.

09-21-2010, 01:20 PM	#14
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by er1kksen Back when the DP1 was the only large-sensor compact around, some people did. But like I said, it'll be interesting to see if they've caught up at all on that front. I doubt that there will be any significant high ISO advances... double TRUE II speaks about ISO3200 max and not really anything better than DP2/SD15 generation Foveon... ok may be a 1 stop more, but those ISOs are nowhere near regular sensors past say ISO400

09-21-2010, 07:38 PM	#15
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by RolloR 46MP Should be "MD" (megadots), really. But bayer-matrix sensors are also marketed with "MP", even though they only feature dots as well. A dot has a single colour whereas a pixel has three (RGB) colour components. It is not straightforward to compare the true Foveon pixels to the dots of a bayer-matrix sensor since a good demosaicing algorithm can extract much more colour resolution out of a bayer-matrix RAW then a naive dot-binning algorithm which would only yield a pixel/dot ratio of 1/3. Foveon sensors are completely free of colour moiré issues, so they don't need AA filters for this purpose which helps with image sharpness. They should still benefit from some AA for avoiding luminance moiré.

Sigma SD1: 46MP?

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