HD Camcorder - any positive experiences?

RobG · 11-09-2010, 06:27 PM

I recently bought a Sanyo Xacti HD camcorder and I'm extremely disappointed in its performance. Does anyone have a positive experience to report about an HD camcorder - preferably one which records to SD memory?

The reasons for disappointment with the Xacti are:

The camera won't reliably record HD video unless the SD card is very high speed but this is not documented in the manual. I bought a class 10 card but I'd suggest class 6 is a minimum.
The image stabilisation is worse than my 2002 Sony minDV camera. The Xacti's image stabilisation is next to useless IMO. I'd be keen to hear from people who have an HD camcorder that can be practically used hand held. The Xacti needs to be on a tripod which defeats the purpose of its compact design
The LCD screen is pretty much useless on a sunny day making it next to impossible to accurately frame a moving subject. My Sony camcorder had a colour viewfinder which eliminates this issue.
The buttons to start and stop the camera require so much force that it's impossible to avoid camera shake. This is frustrating and especially so with attempting to use the high resolution still image capability of the camera.
Sanyo don't appear to have a website where I can download updates for the camera, so I can't see that it's likely there will be a firmware update to address the stabilisation issue.
While the resolution is theoretically full HD, the IQ is not. The still images may be 14MP but aren't as good as an equivalent compact camera.
The IQ of moving objects is especially poor, which tends to defeat the purpose of having a video camera.
The MP4 data files produced mean any sort of editing will further reduce IQ.
The case design provides no protection for the lens.

Does anyone have a more positive experience to report of an HD camcorder, preferably in a reasonably low price bracket? Obviously, comparisons to cameras over $2000 or even much over $1000 are not a sensible comparison.

jogiba · 11-09-2010, 07:01 PM

to get if you want the ultimate HD video quality.

RobG · 11-09-2010, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

to get if you want the ultimate HD video quality.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check it out - I have heard menion of this unit on the video forum.

Rob

RobG · 11-10-2010, 04:27 AM

Originally posted by jogiba

to get if you want the ultimate HD video quality.

Looks pretty good! I just have to decide whether to spend $1K on another camera.

RobG · 11-18-2010, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

to get if you want the ultimate HD video quality.

Does anyone have first hand experience with the Panasonic TM700? I'm curious about how effective the image stabilisation actually is. It's hard to judge from video clips, and impossible to test since none of the retailers in my city seem to stock the Panasonic 700 series.

RobG · 11-19-2010, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by RobG

Does anyone have first hand experience with the Panasonic TM700? I'm curious about how effective the image stabilisation actually is. It's hard to judge from video clips, and impossible to test since none of the retailers in my city seem to stock the Panasonic 700 series.

Looking at the cameras in a similar price range, does anyone have any opinions on the Sony HDR-CX550V? There's a couple of reasons I'm more tempted by it than the Panasonic - my old MiniDV camcorder is a Sony, and I have a Sony tripod which supports the Sony LANC jack to put the controls on the tripod handle. On the other hand, I've had good experiences in the past with Panasonic products, and the reviews seem to say that the TM700 is a bit better than the CX550.

jogiba · 11-19-2010, 07:26 AM

For info on the Sony look here:
The Official Sony HDR-CX550V Owners thread - AVS Forum

For the Panasonic look here:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/96284-...0-1080p60.html

Panasonic HDC-HS700 & HDC-TM700 1080p60 cams - AVS Forum

Panasonic HDC-TM700 (click for full size image) :

Sony HDR-CX550V:

Last edited by jogiba; 11-19-2010 at 07:35 AM.

RobG · 11-20-2010, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by RobG

Looking at the cameras in a similar price range, does anyone have any opinions on the Sony HDR-CX550V? There's a couple of reasons I'm more tempted by it than the Panasonic - my old MiniDV camcorder is a Sony, and I have a Sony tripod which supports the Sony LANC jack to put the controls on the tripod handle. On the other hand, I've had good experiences in the past with Panasonic products, and the reviews seem to say that the TM700 is a bit better than the CX550.

The CX550 has a remote control interface but it's not the LANC interface. Scratch that reason.

RobG · 11-20-2010, 12:07 AM

Originally posted by jogiba

For info on the Sony look here:
The Official Sony HDR-CX550V Owners thread - AVS Forum

For the Panasonic look here:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/96284-...0-1080p60.html

Panasonic HDC-HS700 & HDC-TM700 1080p60 cams - AVS Forum

Panasonic HDC-TM700 (click for full size image) :
Sony HDR-CX550V:

Thanks for the links! It looks like they're both very capable camcorders. The TM700 seems to have the edge in image quality, but the Sony seems to have better image stabilisation and lacks the fan which seems to be an issue for the Panasonic.

Certainly from the stills which you posted, the colour rendition of the Panasonic looks much more natural. I wish I could find a store where I live that has the TM700 in stock so I could check out its ergonomics.

jogiba · 11-20-2010, 08:07 AM

The Sony does not have better image stabilisation , it just has a wider FOV at the wide end that makes it look better. I use a 10-24mm @10mm on my Pentax K-7 if I don't want camera shake in my videos.
[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3GohLHY5Gs[/YT]
[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JH-K6kqtgA[/YT]

RobG · 11-20-2010, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

The Sony does not have better image stabilisation , it just has a wider FOV at the wide end that makes it look better. I use a 10-24mm @10mm on my Pentax K-7 if I don't want camera shake in my videos.

On the video forums I checked, it was claimed that the image stabilisation of the Sony was actually better than the Panasonic. At a wide angle, image stabilisation will always be much easier than when zoomed. I've used my 16-45 on my K7 and found it was reasonalby easy to take hand held video that way, although focus is difficult close up because of DOF. I also bought a Rode Stereo Videomic. But I can't use the K7 like a camcorder, nor do I expect to, which is why I'm looking at the Sony and Panasonic camcorders.

I must update the firmware in the K7 - being able to focus in the usual way would help!

jogiba · 11-21-2010, 08:13 AM

Show me a video taken with the Sony handheld @630mm .

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrRYbeysIgU[/YT]

RobG · 11-22-2010, 01:54 AM

Originally posted by jogiba

Show me a video taken with the Sony handheld @630mm .

You Tube

Dunno what the zoom is - I think the Sony zoom isn't as long as the Panasonic.

The clips you had look good although I'd love to know if the low frame rates I see are a side effect of embedding HD or what exactly. My computer has a 3GHz quad-core CPU so it shouldn't be short of processor bandwidth.

jogiba · 11-22-2010, 05:34 AM

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxUZvcDXVZM[/YT]

The Sony HDR-CX550 has one of the worst IS systems I have seen IMHO.

RobG · 11-22-2010, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

The Sony HDR-CX550 has one of the worst IS systems I have seen IMHO.

I'm not sure how you could watch that clip and come to that conclusion. The result even with "standard" IS is very acceptable. In fact I couldn't see a significant difference between it and the advanced mode in that clip, but there was a huge difference between none and standard. It's far more effective than the IS in my Sharp camcorder - it seems like the only useful focal length on the Sharp is as wide as possible - or use a tripod.

11-09-2010, 06:27 PM	#1
RobG Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Canberra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,891	HD Camcorder - any positive experiences? I recently bought a Sanyo Xacti HD camcorder and I'm extremely disappointed in its performance. Does anyone have a positive experience to report about an HD camcorder - preferably one which records to SD memory? The reasons for disappointment with the Xacti are: The camera won't reliably record HD video unless the SD card is very high speed but this is not documented in the manual. I bought a class 10 card but I'd suggest class 6 is a minimum. The image stabilisation is worse than my 2002 Sony minDV camera. The Xacti's image stabilisation is next to useless IMO. I'd be keen to hear from people who have an HD camcorder that can be practically used hand held. The Xacti needs to be on a tripod which defeats the purpose of its compact design The LCD screen is pretty much useless on a sunny day making it next to impossible to accurately frame a moving subject. My Sony camcorder had a colour viewfinder which eliminates this issue. The buttons to start and stop the camera require so much force that it's impossible to avoid camera shake. This is frustrating and especially so with attempting to use the high resolution still image capability of the camera. Sanyo don't appear to have a website where I can download updates for the camera, so I can't see that it's likely there will be a firmware update to address the stabilisation issue. While the resolution is theoretically full HD, the IQ is not. The still images may be 14MP but aren't as good as an equivalent compact camera. The IQ of moving objects is especially poor, which tends to defeat the purpose of having a video camera. The MP4 data files produced mean any sort of editing will further reduce IQ. The case design provides no protection for the lens. Does anyone have a more positive experience to report of an HD camcorder, preferably in a reasonably low price bracket? Obviously, comparisons to cameras over $2000 or even much over $1000 are not a sensible comparison.

11-09-2010, 07:01 PM	#2
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Panasonic HDC-TM700 3MOS 1080p60 is the one to get if you want the ultimate HD video quality. Vimeo

11-21-2010, 08:13 AM	#12
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Show me a video taken with the Sony handheld @630mm . Vimeo Vimeo Vimeo [YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrRYbeysIgU[/YT] Last edited by jogiba; 11-21-2010 at 08:22 AM.

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11-09-2010, 09:39 PM	#3
RobG Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Canberra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,891 Original Poster	Originally posted by jogiba to get if you want the ultimate HD video quality. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check it out - I have heard menion of this unit on the video forum. Rob

11-10-2010, 04:27 AM	#4
RobG Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Canberra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,891 Original Poster	Originally posted by jogiba to get if you want the ultimate HD video quality. Looks pretty good! I just have to decide whether to spend $1K on another camera.

11-18-2010, 07:07 PM	#5
RobG Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Canberra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,891 Original Poster	Originally posted by jogiba to get if you want the ultimate HD video quality. Does anyone have first hand experience with the Panasonic TM700? I'm curious about how effective the image stabilisation actually is. It's hard to judge from video clips, and impossible to test since none of the retailers in my city seem to stock the Panasonic 700 series.

11-19-2010, 02:17 AM	#6
RobG Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Canberra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,891 Original Poster	Originally posted by RobG Does anyone have first hand experience with the Panasonic TM700? I'm curious about how effective the image stabilisation actually is. It's hard to judge from video clips, and impossible to test since none of the retailers in my city seem to stock the Panasonic 700 series. Looking at the cameras in a similar price range, does anyone have any opinions on the Sony HDR-CX550V? There's a couple of reasons I'm more tempted by it than the Panasonic - my old MiniDV camcorder is a Sony, and I have a Sony tripod which supports the Sony LANC jack to put the controls on the tripod handle. On the other hand, I've had good experiences in the past with Panasonic products, and the reviews seem to say that the TM700 is a bit better than the CX550.

11-19-2010, 07:26 AM	#7
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	For info on the Sony look here: The Official Sony HDR-CX550V Owners thread - AVS Forum For the Panasonic look here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/96284-...0-1080p60.html Panasonic HDC-HS700 & HDC-TM700 1080p60 cams - AVS Forum Panasonic HDC-TM700 (click for full size image) : Sony HDR-CX550V: Last edited by jogiba; 11-19-2010 at 07:35 AM.

11-20-2010, 12:04 AM	#8
RobG Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Canberra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,891 Original Poster	Originally posted by RobG Looking at the cameras in a similar price range, does anyone have any opinions on the Sony HDR-CX550V? There's a couple of reasons I'm more tempted by it than the Panasonic - my old MiniDV camcorder is a Sony, and I have a Sony tripod which supports the Sony LANC jack to put the controls on the tripod handle. On the other hand, I've had good experiences in the past with Panasonic products, and the reviews seem to say that the TM700 is a bit better than the CX550. The CX550 has a remote control interface but it's not the LANC interface. Scratch that reason.

11-20-2010, 12:07 AM	#9
RobG Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Canberra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,891 Original Poster	Originally posted by jogiba For info on the Sony look here: The Official Sony HDR-CX550V Owners thread - AVS Forum For the Panasonic look here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/96284-...0-1080p60.html Panasonic HDC-HS700 & HDC-TM700 1080p60 cams - AVS Forum Panasonic HDC-TM700 (click for full size image) : Sony HDR-CX550V: Thanks for the links! It looks like they're both very capable camcorders. The TM700 seems to have the edge in image quality, but the Sony seems to have better image stabilisation and lacks the fan which seems to be an issue for the Panasonic. Certainly from the stills which you posted, the colour rendition of the Panasonic looks much more natural. I wish I could find a store where I live that has the TM700 in stock so I could check out its ergonomics.

11-20-2010, 08:07 AM	#10
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	The Sony does not have better image stabilisation , it just has a wider FOV at the wide end that makes it look better. I use a 10-24mm @10mm on my Pentax K-7 if I don't want camera shake in my videos. [YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3GohLHY5Gs[/YT] [YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JH-K6kqtgA[/YT]

11-20-2010, 05:00 PM	#11
RobG Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Canberra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,891 Original Poster	Originally posted by jogiba The Sony does not have better image stabilisation , it just has a wider FOV at the wide end that makes it look better. I use a 10-24mm @10mm on my Pentax K-7 if I don't want camera shake in my videos. On the video forums I checked, it was claimed that the image stabilisation of the Sony was actually better than the Panasonic. At a wide angle, image stabilisation will always be much easier than when zoomed. I've used my 16-45 on my K7 and found it was reasonalby easy to take hand held video that way, although focus is difficult close up because of DOF. I also bought a Rode Stereo Videomic. But I can't use the K7 like a camcorder, nor do I expect to, which is why I'm looking at the Sony and Panasonic camcorders. I must update the firmware in the K7 - being able to focus in the usual way would help!

11-22-2010, 05:34 AM	#14
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxUZvcDXVZM[/YT] The Sony HDR-CX550 has one of the worst IS systems I have seen IMHO.

11-22-2010, 02:32 PM	#15
RobG Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Canberra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,891 Original Poster	Originally posted by jogiba The Sony HDR-CX550 has one of the worst IS systems I have seen IMHO. I'm not sure how you could watch that clip and come to that conclusion. The result even with "standard" IS is very acceptable. In fact I couldn't see a significant difference between it and the advanced mode in that clip, but there was a huge difference between none and standard. It's far more effective than the IS in my Sharp camcorder - it seems like the only useful focal length on the Sharp is as wide as possible - or use a tripod.