[eddie1960]

it is one big mirror, but you think there would be a way of damping the slap a little to reduce the noise. I'll have to keep my eyes open for a cheapo second body to experiment on.
the leaf shutter on my super 23 is so quiet, and no mirror to slap, damn camera weighs a ton though

[unixrevolution]

The Bessas are great cameras, especially the R3 and R4 cameras. The R4a has caught my eye recently. I do have a Leica M2 on the way, but that's neither here nor there.

For my money, Bessa or OM-1, I would go with the Bessa. It'll give you a much different experience than an SLR, and not only won't you have mirror slap, you won't have blank viewfinder at the time of exposure either.

If the Bessa and the Voigtlander M-mount lenses are too expensive, you can always get an M39 FSU rangefinder camera, like a Fed-3 or a Zorki. Build well, cheap, accept the nearly ubiquitous LTM (Leica Thread Mount) lenses...and if you ever upgrade to an M camera, LTM lenses adapt with no loss of function.

As stated before, fixed-lens RFs are also an option if you don't need interchangeable lenses. Fixed-lens RFs typically have leaf shutters, which are so quiet you barely know they went off at all. When I first started shooting my Electro 35 I was afraid it wasn't firing at all because it was so quiet. I own several leaf-shuttered RFs:

Kodak Retina IIIc
Argus C3
Argus Matchmatic
Balda Super Baldamatic I
Yashica Electro 35 GSN
Kodak Medalist

These cameras handle beautifully, focus accurately, and are just about dead silent. The Electro 35 also has the added benefit of a 1.7 lens, and of having the most eerily accurate AE metering of any camera I've ever used, save only one: The Pentax LX. Even the relatively massive Medalist medium format RF is nearly silent thanks to its leaf shutter.

In my opinion, if you want to get your feet wet in the rangefinder pool for cheap, get an Electro 35. Sure, it's AE only, but it's an amazing experience.

[dugrant153]

I'll definitely keep an eye on those fixed lens RFs, but I guess if I were going to go professional and rely on them solely, I'd go for a newer Voigtlander or Leica. Although, I have to say, the Konica C35 is pretty awesome. And uber quiet as you mentioned, unixrevolution!

Wow that's a totally different camera than what you were looking for in the beginning!
I have an etr and it's OMG so loud. What's ironic is that the lens is a leaf shutter lens - if you take out the lens and try tripping the shutter, you will only hear a light rustle (don't forget to cock the shutter before you mount the lens back). But on the camera, that mirror pretty much makes the etr oh so noisy.

I know... totally different route! I guess my approach won't be super uber stealthy like a ninja photographer (and I have been called that before) but more like deftly approaching a situation and seeming more personal with my face visible if I use the waist level view finder.

Speaking of which, my Bronica didn't come with the WLF. So I made one out of cardboard!! (I call it "Le Petite Chapeau"). LOL. This will probably just have to suffice for now until I can source a decently priced one somewhere. Something odd I found, though, was that the Bronica is quite loud without a cover, but the unmetered prism finder I have actually absorbs a lot of the "clack" and makes it a lot less outrageous.

[séamuis]

I would have suggested a new Voigtlander bessa myself. I have a Leica M3, but I recently got to try a Bessa, and while clearly not as beautifully engineered and arguably of lesser build quality compared to the M3, the bessa was a very pleasant experience, and the cosina voigtlander lenses are actually quite affordable. cameraquest has a new 21mm skopar for less than 400 bucks, and you can get an R4m or A for less than 700. compare that to a modern leica TTL film body! or even a classic meterless Leica! just getting the body would be more expensive, and it will likely need an equally expensive CLA to be useable. I think I will actually get a Bessa myself, I might even get it in place of the fuji x100 vie been dreaming of owning. for anyone wanting the rangefinder experience, I would certainly recommend one of those lovely 70’s fixed lens japanese models to ‘test’ the waters, but if they like it and want something more modern and more robust, I think what cosina is doing with the voigtlander name is nothing short of exceptional.

[eddie1960]

I would have suggested a new Voigtlander bessa myself. I have a Leica M3, but I recently got to try a Bessa, and while clearly not as beautifully engineered and arguably of lesser build quality compared to the M3, the bessa was a very pleasant experience, and the cosina voigtlander lenses are actually quite affordable. cameraquest has a new 21mm skopar for less than 400 bucks, and you can get an R4m or A for less than 700. compare that to a modern leica TTL film body! or even a classic meterless Leica! just getting the body would be more expensive, and it will likely need an equally expensive CLA to be useable. I think I will actually get a Bessa myself, I might even get it in place of the fuji x100 vie been dreaming of owning. for anyone wanting the rangefinder experience, I would certainly recommend one of those lovely 70’s fixed lens japanese models to ‘test’ the waters, but if they like it and want something more modern and more robust, I think what cosina is doing with the voigtlander name is nothing short of exceptional.

I have to agree though i have a serious case of leica lust before i spent a grand plus on a body in need of an expensive CLA I'd go Bessa with a couple of lenses for the same price
the x100/bessa is a dilemma for me as well. i want both and can afford neither currently

[séamuis]

I have to agree though i have a serious case of leica lust before i spent a grand plus on a body in need of an expensive CLA I'd go Bessa with a couple of lenses for the same price
the x100/bessa is a dilemma for me as well. i want both and can afford neither currently

I could afford one, before my trip in may, and my main lust over the fuji besides ease of digital, is that my fiancée doesn’t like my tendency to put off film development, so she can get at my photos very quick with digital. but I have to admit, that the Bessa is very nice, and since many a digital and film Leica owner are using cosina-voigtlander lenses, they must be damn good! really if you step back and look at what cosina is doing, they are in a league of their own. who else is offering what they are at that price? nobody. a Bessa R4m/a with a 50mm 1.1 is one hell of a package, and at a price well below anything comparable with Leica in price, you cat help but be impressed. its great that Mr. Kobayashi is striving to keep rangefinders and excellently engineered and crafted lenses alive in this modern age.

[eddie1960]

I could afford one, before my trip in may, and my main lust over the fuji besides ease of digital, is that my fiancée doesn’t like my tendency to put off film development, so she can get at my photos very quick with digital. but I have to admit, that the Bessa is very nice, and since many a digital and film Leica owner are using cosina-voigtlander lenses, they must be damn good! really if you step back and look at what cosina is doing, they are in a league of their own. who else is offering what they are at that price? nobody. a Bessa R4m/a with a 50mm 1.1 is one hell of a package, and at a price well below anything comparable with Leica in price, you cat help but be impressed. its great that Mr. Kobayashi is striving to keep rangefinders and excellently engineered and crafted lenses alive in this modern age.

Not just rangefinders, i love the 6x9 folder he partnered with Fuji on it's a beautiful piece of equipment. I am hopeful at some point he will partner with someone better than epson and introduce another digital rangefinder based on the Bessa ( a Fuji partnership would I think be ideal but there may be many restrictive things in place from the Epson deal) I know he hasn't been overly keen on the idea in the past but I think they were too early with the Epson, the leica crowd is notorious for resisting change, but now seem to have come around to digital, though most can't afford it many lust after it, so i do believe it's time for another attempt. An R4 digital apsc for $2-2500 would sell like crazy, a full frame version for $3500-4000 would also do big business (i'm being realistic i'd rather see 1-1500 for the aps and 2-2500 for the ff but that won't happen)

[stevebrot]

I recently paid about $200 for a clean used black Bessa R body, and about the same for a CV 35/2.5 Color-Skopar lens.
FWIW I previously owned a later M-mount Bessa and didn't like it at all, but I love my little Bessa R...

Chris

VERY cool! I would have loved to have found a $200 CV 35/2.5 in LTM. Although I currently have way too many cameras, I still find the thought of a Bessa R3A + Nokton 40/1.4 very alluring. Maybe when all of the FSU stuff breaks?


Steve

[Ratmagiclady]

VERY cool! I would have loved to have found a $200 CV 35/2.5 in LTM. Although I currently have way too many cameras, I still find the thought of a Bessa R3A + Nokton 40/1.4 very alluring. Maybe when all of the FSU stuff breaks?


Steve

Yeah, that'd be very nice. Actually the very combo I like to promise myself if I ever meet with any monetary success here. The big Bessa sales guy was offering one of those with a cool dark grey body and the single-coated version of that lens as a prize in some contest, if I recall correctly: very appealing.

I'd prefer that life-size viewfinder over the wider one, any day, clear choice for me, cause of that and my penchant for a little tighter FOV... and I might prefer an add-on VF for wides anyway.

[dugrant153]

Sorry to bump this thread, but I thought I'd share what's happened since I last posted.

Well, I tried going the two medium format camera route and it's pretty good. However, carrying the two of them is HEAVY. And second, my style is curbing into a very photojournalistic-type of style - an observer and story teller of events, scenes, etc.

The image quality of medium format 645 is absolutely amazing. However, I'm finding it didn't really fit my photojournalistic style. I'll use it for detail shots and portraits (where the details makes a big difference).

This brings me back to reconsidering the Olympus OM-1. I actually bought a cheap Konica Auto S2 to see how it would do, and I actually found the yellow patch a bit difficult to work with. Maybe my RF is mis-aligned, but also maybe I'm just so used to seeing the focus change in the viewfinder... and maybe that's how I work best?

Anyways, my question is: does it just take time to get used to the RF split-image viewfinder, or is it something you just "get" and it clicks with you? At the moment, I'm finding it's not really clicking with me (although I love RF cameras. they're beautiful).

[Wheatfield]

My first SLR was an OM-1. It was quite a lovely little camera. My father bought it from me, and then added an OM-2 to his collection.
Of the two, the OM-2 was the nicer camera.
The beauty of the OM series is the viewfinders and the OM lenses, which are superb.

[unixrevolution]

When i got my first RF, i would day after getting used to it, i took to it very naturally. But i tend to adapt to new or different cameras easily, and im relatively new to photography so i dont have decades of SLR shooting to unlearn.

[Nesster]

I actually bought a cheap Konica Auto S2 to see how it would do, and I actually found the yellow patch a bit difficult to work with. Maybe my RF is mis-aligned, but also maybe I'm just so used to seeing the focus change in the viewfinder... and maybe that's how I work best?

First, congrats on the fine camera, I love the S2 myself.

I find in general the RF cameras put me on the 'outside' of the process more so than shooting with an SLR, where I'm 'inside' the camera view finder much more. That in itself is a change that I find relaxing and stimulating, but I can see how that would not be the case.

And yes, using the RF patch exclusively takes a bit of learning, and when I'm going back to shoot RF after a long SLR period I do have to educate myself again. However, for the type of shooting you are talking about, pre-focus and DOF are your friends in any case. There is a bit more thought involved when the entire vf isn't used for focusing, there's no getting around that.

The Olympus OM series is a good solution, but as this is a Pentax forum I'm honour bound to point out the MX, ME Super, Super Program, Program Plus are competetive with the Oly, reliable, unobtrusive etc. They are all smaller than the Konica Auto S2.

[Kim C]

The RF patch does take a while to get used to. The one in the S2 is not bad but they are much better in the Bessa's. I much prefer it to the Zeiss!

Has the S2 been serviced? If not, it is quite easy to lift the top and cleam the beam splitter. It can make a big difference

Once you get used to the RF finder especially a life size one, it is a joy to work with leaving both eyes open. The camera then becomes much more of an "extension" to your sight in a way an SLR never can

Kim

This brings me back to reconsidering the Olympus OM-1. I actually bought a cheap Konica Auto S2 to see how it would do, and I actually found the yellow patch a bit difficult to work with. Maybe my RF is mis-aligned, but also maybe I'm just so used to seeing the focus change in the viewfinder... and maybe that's how I work best?

Anyways, my question is: does it just take time to get used to the RF split-image viewfinder, or is it something you just "get" and it clicks with you? At the moment, I'm finding it's not really clicking with me (although I love RF cameras. they're beautiful).

[unixrevolution]

The Olympus OM series is a good solution, but as this is a Pentax forum I'm honour bound to point out the MX, ME Super, Super Program, Program Plus are competetive with the Oly, reliable, unobtrusive etc. They are all smaller than the Konica Auto S2.

I own two MX's, an ME Super and a Super Program. All superb manual focus SLRs, and all very small. The MX is dwarfish, and even the Super Program isnt much larger.