[dugrant153]

Hi all,

Hopefully this is the right place for this topic!
I'm thinking of getting myself a good quality but not too expensive rangefinder. Considered Zeiss Ikon and Leica, but too expensive. This has led me to a Voigtlander Bessa R3M (I like something that's manual and doesn't need batteries except the meter).

I like the idea of the rangefinder for easier low-light focusing, quietness and unobtrusive look. I shoot a very discrete (or try to be) documentary style.

However, I recently played with an Olympus OM-1 and the shutter is pretty QUIET. Wow. And the view finder is HUGE. WOW. The Olympus OM-1 is also pretty small too, and the lenses are tiny.

So I'm just curious if people have had experiences with both and can vouch for either the R3M or OM-1? I know this is a bit of an oddball comparison but I was curious

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Last edited by dugrant153; 02-26-2011 at 10:37 AM.

[Douglas_of_Sweden]

I would take an OM-2 over an OM-1.

Edit: If you want a silent camera with gigantic viewfinder, try a Pentax LX.

[Ratmagiclady]

All good, those, just different. I'd like one of those Bessas, myself.

Like Douglas, I'd probably prefer an OM-2, for general use, though I don't quite recall why. (I seriously-considered jumping from Canon FD to Olympus when I was young, though. I also liked one of the more-modern ones, that wasn't the OM-4, but had spot metering and possibly a program mode I couldn't have cared less about: I don't recall if those qualities were on the same model and I also don't know how time has treated them. Possibly one of the OM-2 updates. Ask some Olympians, there. )

Anyway, all good choices. Lens availability for the Olympus may be at issue: make sure you can get what you need. They made an excellent 40, which always endears a brand to me, but I don't know how many are out there.

[nickthetasmaniac]

I would take an OM-2 over an OM-1.

Edit: If you want a silent camera with gigantic viewfinder, try a Pentax LX.

I'd hardly call the LX shutter quiet! Not criticising the camera, I'm lucky enough to have one and love it, but quite it ain't when you fire off a shot...

I don't have much experience with the OM series but I guess in the end it's going to come down to preferences. How do you like composing and focussing with a rangefinder? Do you like to see what you get? Do you want a new camera and the benefits that come with that, or are you ok with something that's 30yrs old?

One thing that I have noticed with the OM series though is that firstly, the optics are first-grade, and secondly, the optics are hard to find and not cheap, especially when compared to Pentax K and M lenses...

[er1kksen]

I had and loved both an OM-1 and and OM-2. The only real significant advantage to the OM-2 was the autoexposure, which was a similar real-time metering system to what pentax later put in the LX and allowed some interesting night shots. It was the camera I used most, though. If you don't need that, the OM-1 is cheaper, just as nice, and can shoot without a battery (no meter in that case, though). My favorite detail with both was always the shutter-speed ring around the lensmount. A 50 f1.8 or a fastish 35 shouldn't set you back too much. My favorite lens was my 100mm f2.8, which I still have (I dropped it and bent the filter ring pretty severely, doubt I could sell it for much though it still took beautiful photos).

[Nesster]

RML - you're thinking of the OM2s aka OM2Sp... the camera I did buy in '85, for the program mode (so wife and kids would use it more easily). Back then I turned my nose up at Pentax, and was unmoved by the camera store's attempt at selling me one of the automatic Minoltas.

Anyway, in retrospect I wish I'd bought the OM2n instead - the s has a split beam to feed the spot meter, which makes the vf dim (I even bought a fancy after market focus screen for it)... and the electronics in the 25 years since have turned a bit senile.

But the 1 and 2 are excellent cameras, perhaps someone can clear up if there's a battery issue with the 1.

Zuikos are very nice lenses, sharp and contrasty... However, I've noted that of all the major brans, I've had trouble with Zuiko aperture mechanisms... they tend to get lazy. I do love my 85/2 Zuiko.

[eddie1960]

if quiet is your pursuit the bessa will be quieter no matter what, i used to fool around with a friends om 1 and 2 and they were very nice (as is the mx from pentax) but they are still SLRs they still have most of the noise coming from the mirror. Rangefinders are the preferred street shooting camera for a reason they are small, fast to focus and quiet. they don't look like they are fancy cameras to people so they ignore them. The R3m is really an excellent value camera and with the addition of an ltm to m adapter can take pretty much a ton of lenses (like pentax here) for the FSU ltm lens they may need to be shimmed or adjusted a bit but for all the others no issues (canon,nikon leica etc m39 and of course any m mount lens) Compared to a Leica the bessa has been described as noisy, but for what an r3m costs you'd be getting a 50-60 year old leica at best
but if you are looking this way consider the R4a or r4m if you shoot more wideangle as they have most of the wide angle framelines built in. R3m only has 40/50/75/90
r4a/m have 21/25/28/35/50 more useful for street imho
$50 difference in price body only from cameraquest

not too mention the 1.1 50mm lens they have for a tenth of the price of the leica. street-shooter's dream

[Nesster]

btw, if lens interchangeability isn't a high prioirity, then one of the fixed lens 70's Japanese range finders are an excellent way to try this style of shooting - Yashica Electro GSN, Konica Auto S2, various Canons and Minoltas and Olympi, all are excellent, with great optics. These tend to come in Large and Small sizes, where the Large is larger than a typical Pentax SLR... and the Small are smaller but more limited. The usual lens tends to be ~45mm and f/1.7, 1.8 are common. These have leaf shutters and are very quiet.

[eddie1960]

btw, if lens interchangeability isn't a high prioirity, then one of the fixed lens 70's Japanese range finders are an excellent way to try this style of shooting - Yashica Electro GSN, Konica Auto S2, various Canons and Minoltas and Olympi, all are excellent, with great optics. These tend to come in Large and Small sizes, where the Large is larger than a typical Pentax SLR... and the Small are smaller but more limited. The usual lens tends to be ~45mm and f/1.7, 1.8 are common. These have leaf shutters and are very quiet.

+1 to this and you can probably find a nice one for less than $100 without difficulty

[Ratmagiclady]

Very nice, those Konicas.

If the market's gotten over the inflated 'cult status' yet, the Canonet G-III is also very nice. Used to be you couldn't give em away, now I a) Wish I'd kept a nice one for myself, and b) Wish I'd kept three more: I'd have made a fortune on Ebay a few years ago.

They were like the chocolate-brown Corolla of the 80's. You never thought one would be hard to find if you needed one.


But they are actually pretty good lenses.

[Wheatfield]

I'd hardly call the LX shutter quiet! Not criticising the camera, I'm lucky enough to have one and love it, but quite it ain't when you fire off a shot...

I don't have much experience with the OM series but I guess in the end it's going to come down to preferences. How do you like composing and focussing with a rangefinder? Do you like to see what you get? Do you want a new camera and the benefits that come with that, or are you ok with something that's 30yrs old?

One thing that I have noticed with the OM series though is that firstly, the optics are first-grade, and secondly, the optics are hard to find and not cheap, especially when compared to Pentax K and M lenses...

The OM-1 is a jewel of a camera, and the OM lenses are superb.
An anecdote about the LX shutter:
I was shooting a wedding at the local Catholic cathedral. I had an LX set up in the choir loft with an 80-200/2.8 attached for some available light shots of the ceremony.
I pressed the button at exactly the same time that the minister chose a moment of silence.
The LX has the most wonderful tinging noise when it fires. The Cathedral's acoustics resonated and amplified said noise.
It was a beautiful thing.
The minister paused and the sound of angels singing rang out.

[dugrant153]

+1 to this and you can probably find a nice one for less than $100 without difficulty

I do have a Konica C35 to play with at the moment. It's a great little camera and the images totally surprised me for such a small thing.... they came out great! I was looking for something a bit more... but ... more on that later.

I played with the OM-1 again and it definitely does have that 'mirror slap' sound while the voigtlander is more of a shunty "click"... a slight bit softer.

In the end though... I decided to go the exact opposite route: Bronica ETRS 645 medium format camera. Loud mirror slap and a beast compared to either OM-1 or rangefinder, but has the advantage of a waist level finder... which I think I can see myself using for more discrete street shots. Although, people will know I've taken the shot once they hear the echo of the mirror slap in the valley, flocks of birds fly away, and people stare around wondering what just happened...

just kidding.

The minister paused and the sound of angels singing rang out.

Nice.

[stevebrot]

R3m only has 40/50/75/90
r4a/m have 21/25/28/35/50 more useful for street imho

Unfortunately the R4A/M viewfinder comes at a price...the rangefinder effective baseline is only 19.24 mm as compared to 37mm for the R3A/M. Translation...forget shooting with anything longer than 50mm. The rangefinder simply lacks adequate precision for a longer lens, such as 85mm portrait glass. For reference, my Zorki 4K has an EBL of 38mm, the FED-2 41mm, and my Canon P is 41mm. The big winner is my Kiev 4A with about 68mm!


Steve

[eddie1960]

I do have a Konica C35 to play with at the moment. It's a great little camera and the images totally surprised me for such a small thing.... they came out great! I was looking for something a bit more... but ... more on that later.

I played with the OM-1 again and it definitely does have that 'mirror slap' sound while the voigtlander is more of a shunty "click"... a slight bit softer.

In the end though... I decided to go the exact opposite route: Bronica ETRS 645 medium format camera. Loud mirror slap and a beast compared to either OM-1 or rangefinder, but has the advantage of a waist level finder... which I think I can see myself using for more discrete street shots. Although, people will know I've taken the shot once they hear the echo of the mirror slap in the valley, flocks of birds fly away, and people stare around wondering what just happened...

just kidding.




Nice.

Ha, I have the etrsi and can totally identify, it's pretty loud.

[pbo]

In the end though... I decided to go the exact opposite route: Bronica ETRS 645 medium format camera. Loud mirror slap and a beast compared to either OM-1 or rangefinder, but has the advantage of a waist level finder... which I think I can see myself using for more discrete street shots. Although, people will know I've taken the shot once they hear the echo of the mirror slap in the valley, flocks of birds fly away, and people stare around wondering what just happened...

Wow that's a totally different camera than what you were looking for in the beginning!
I have an etr and it's OMG so loud. What's ironic is that the lens is a leaf shutter lens - if you take out the lens and try tripping the shutter, you will only hear a light rustle (don't forget to cock the shutter before you mount the lens back). But on the camera, that mirror pretty much makes the etr oh so noisy.
What's also ironic is that on ETRSi, there is mirror lockup option - but it only raises the mirror about 3/4 way up so it's sort of hanging just below the focusing screen. You trip the shutter - and clack! - same noisy sound as without mirror up.

By the way, etr-series cameras need batteries in the camera body for the shutter speeds to work, otherwise they default to 1/500.