New mirrorless Leica system announced for 2012

**rparmar** · 06-22-2011, 10:10 AM

No sensor chosen, no details yet, but info forthcoming at Photokina 2012. British Journal of Photography has the story.

lithos · 06-22-2011, 11:18 AM - **1 Like**

Ah, Leica: Lomography for yuppies.

Christine Tham · 06-22-2011, 12:04 PM

Mirrorless accepting current Leica lenses with a full frame sensor?

This could get really interesting.

Bart · 06-23-2011, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by Christine Tham

Mirrorless accepting current Leica lenses with a full frame sensor?

This could get really interesting.

Isn't that called M9?

Christine Tham · 06-23-2011, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by Bart

Isn't that called M9?

No. I've used an M9, and you can't use the LCD when taking photos - it's only for reviewing afterwards.

LCD with the ability to zoom in to the part of the image to focus on, will be really useful. I have rather bad astigmatism on my right eye, so I find the range finder focusing system painful and difficult to use.

I hope they upgrade the sensor though - I liked the sensor on the M9, but quality above ISO 1000 is mediocre ...

**Digitalis** · 06-27-2011, 04:48 AM

I think it will be a interchangeable lens version of the X1 - with an APS-C sensor most likely a Panasonic 4/3ds sensor considering Leica joined the 4/3rds consortium in 2006.

Originally posted by Christine Tham

I liked the sensor on the M9, but quality above ISO 1000 is mediocre

It's not that bad for a CCD sensor, sure its nowhere near D3s quality but it still beats the pentax K10D at ISO 1600. Besides Leica has many Ultra fast( e.g noctilux 50mm f/0.95) lenses that provide a degree of compensation for the lacklustre High ISO

Originally posted by lithos

Leica: Lomography for yuppies.

sorry, you must have confused Leica with Diana.

**TomB_tx** · 06-27-2011, 05:41 AM

I use both the M9 and the K-5, and overall prefer to use the M9. I started photography using Kodachrome ASA 25, and usually used ASA 64 B&W, with TriX at 400 (or 1200 in Acufine) for what we thought was really dim light. That's why there were so many F1.4 and F1.2 lenses back then!
I primarily use lenses from 1941 to 1970 on the M9, and seldom need more than ISO 400. Even without "image stabilization" I can still get useful images at 1/15th with normal lenses, and some percentage at 1/8th. The camera (and proper hold) is stable in itself without needing high ISO and IS.
I wish the new Leica would be FF and use the R system lenses, but don't expect that. I would try the Leitax mounts on the K-5, but the viewfinder is so marginal for manual focus.

unixrevolution · 10-05-2011, 07:10 AM

Originally posted by Christine Tham

No. I've used an M9, and you can't use the LCD when taking photos - it's only for reviewing afterwards.

LCD with the ability to zoom in to the part of the image to focus on, will be really useful. I have rather bad astigmatism on my right eye, so I find the range finder focusing system painful and difficult to use.

I hope they upgrade the sensor though - I liked the sensor on the M9, but quality above ISO 1000 is mediocre ...

I'm sorry to hear about your eye condition that makes the OVF and rangefinder hard to use.

My eyes don't bother me when using cameras, and I can't imagine that I'd ever want to compose and shoot on the LCD of a camera with a real, mechanical, M-style rangefinder. It'd be like watching a movie on a phone in the same room as a big screen TV.

I can totally understand your reasons, but for those of us who are fortunately not afflicted, I wanted to get the idea across to anybody who's never used an M before...I have an M2, and were it digital with a really nice LCD, I'd still always shoot with the VF.

Have you tried a correcting diopter on an RF?

séamuis · 10-05-2011, 10:02 AM

this could be a huge success for Leica if its priced right. I will be looking very closely at this, and if its great it will be a no-brainer purchase for myself and my leica M lenses. a great companion for my M3 that won’t cost a fortune like an M8 or M9. there have been rumors of this for a while, but everyone is suggesting a price point that will be too high to be a real player in the market (not that Leica is probably looking to be) but I will still be looking much closer at this than anyone else’s offerings.

Blue · 10-06-2011, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by séamuis

this could be a huge success for Leica if its priced right. I will be looking very closely at this, and if its great it will be a no-brainer purchase for myself and my leica M lenses. a great companion for my M3 that won’t cost a fortune like an M8 or M9. there have been rumors of this for a while, but everyone is suggesting a price point that will be too high to be a real player in the market (not that Leica is probably looking to be) but I will still be looking much closer at this than anyone else’s offerings.

Will we need a car loan to buy it.

nickthetasmaniac · 10-07-2011, 04:15 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

I think it will be a interchangeable lens version of the X1 - with an APS-C sensor most likely a Panasonic 4/3ds sensor considering Leica joined the 4/3rds consortium in 2006.

Um sorry? APS-C and 4/3rds are entirely different...

**Aristophanes** · 10-07-2011, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by Blue

Will we need a car loan to buy it.

A Leica car. Nice.

**Digitalis** · 10-07-2011, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac

Um sorry? APS-C and 4/3rds are entirely different...

indeed they are. My bad.

Laurentiu Cristofor · 10-09-2011, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by Christine Tham

No. I've used an M9, and you can't use the LCD when taking photos - it's only for reviewing afterwards.

Mirrorless doesn't mean that you can use the LCD for composing. Anything that is not an SLR is technically a mirrorless camera.

**rparmar** · 10-10-2011, 04:41 AM

Mirrorless means it doesn't have a mirror to reflect the light up to the viewfinder prism. The advantage of such cameras is that this entire bulky assembly can be done away with.

Terms like EVIL are misleading. In my article How (Not) To Name Your Camera System, I propose ILM (Interchangeable-Lens Mirrorless) as an acronym both correct and useful.

06-22-2011, 10:10 AM	#1
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	New mirrorless Leica system announced for 2012 No sensor chosen, no details yet, but info forthcoming at Photokina 2012. British Journal of Photography has the story.

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06-22-2011, 11:18 AM - 1 Like	#2
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	Ah, Leica: Lomography for yuppies.

06-22-2011, 12:04 PM	#3
Christine Tham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,269	Mirrorless accepting current Leica lenses with a full frame sensor? This could get really interesting.

06-23-2011, 10:02 AM	#4
Bart Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: WW community of Pentax users Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,646	Originally posted by Christine Tham Mirrorless accepting current Leica lenses with a full frame sensor? This could get really interesting. Isn't that called M9?

06-23-2011, 12:58 PM	#5
Christine Tham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,269	Originally posted by Bart Isn't that called M9? No. I've used an M9, and you can't use the LCD when taking photos - it's only for reviewing afterwards. LCD with the ability to zoom in to the part of the image to focus on, will be really useful. I have rather bad astigmatism on my right eye, so I find the range finder focusing system painful and difficult to use. I hope they upgrade the sensor though - I liked the sensor on the M9, but quality above ISO 1000 is mediocre ...

06-27-2011, 04:48 AM	#6
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	I think it will be a interchangeable lens version of the X1 - with an APS-C sensor most likely a Panasonic 4/3ds sensor considering Leica joined the 4/3rds consortium in 2006. Originally posted by Christine Tham I liked the sensor on the M9, but quality above ISO 1000 is mediocre It's not that bad for a CCD sensor, sure its nowhere near D3s quality but it still beats the pentax K10D at ISO 1600. Besides Leica has many Ultra fast( e.g noctilux 50mm f/0.95) lenses that provide a degree of compensation for the lacklustre High ISO Originally posted by lithos Leica: Lomography for yuppies. sorry, you must have confused Leica with Diana.

06-27-2011, 05:41 AM	#7
TomB_tx Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,446	I use both the M9 and the K-5, and overall prefer to use the M9. I started photography using Kodachrome ASA 25, and usually used ASA 64 B&W, with TriX at 400 (or 1200 in Acufine) for what we thought was really dim light. That's why there were so many F1.4 and F1.2 lenses back then! I primarily use lenses from 1941 to 1970 on the M9, and seldom need more than ISO 400. Even without "image stabilization" I can still get useful images at 1/15th with normal lenses, and some percentage at 1/8th. The camera (and proper hold) is stable in itself without needing high ISO and IS. I wish the new Leica would be FF and use the R system lenses, but don't expect that. I would try the Leitax mounts on the K-5, but the viewfinder is so marginal for manual focus.

10-05-2011, 07:10 AM	#8
unixrevolution Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Waldorf, MD Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,861	Originally posted by Christine Tham No. I've used an M9, and you can't use the LCD when taking photos - it's only for reviewing afterwards. LCD with the ability to zoom in to the part of the image to focus on, will be really useful. I have rather bad astigmatism on my right eye, so I find the range finder focusing system painful and difficult to use. I hope they upgrade the sensor though - I liked the sensor on the M9, but quality above ISO 1000 is mediocre ... I'm sorry to hear about your eye condition that makes the OVF and rangefinder hard to use. My eyes don't bother me when using cameras, and I can't imagine that I'd ever want to compose and shoot on the LCD of a camera with a real, mechanical, M-style rangefinder. It'd be like watching a movie on a phone in the same room as a big screen TV. I can totally understand your reasons, but for those of us who are fortunately not afflicted, I wanted to get the idea across to anybody who's never used an M before...I have an M2, and were it digital with a really nice LCD, I'd still always shoot with the VF. Have you tried a correcting diopter on an RF?

10-05-2011, 10:02 AM	#9
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	this could be a huge success for Leica if its priced right. I will be looking very closely at this, and if its great it will be a no-brainer purchase for myself and my leica M lenses. a great companion for my M3 that won’t cost a fortune like an M8 or M9. there have been rumors of this for a while, but everyone is suggesting a price point that will be too high to be a real player in the market (not that Leica is probably looking to be) but I will still be looking much closer at this than anyone else’s offerings.

10-06-2011, 06:23 PM	#10
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by séamuis this could be a huge success for Leica if its priced right. I will be looking very closely at this, and if its great it will be a no-brainer purchase for myself and my leica M lenses. a great companion for my M3 that won’t cost a fortune like an M8 or M9. there have been rumors of this for a while, but everyone is suggesting a price point that will be too high to be a real player in the market (not that Leica is probably looking to be) but I will still be looking much closer at this than anyone else’s offerings. Will we need a car loan to buy it.

10-07-2011, 04:15 AM	#11
nickthetasmaniac Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,361	Originally posted by Digitalis I think it will be a interchangeable lens version of the X1 - with an APS-C sensor most likely a Panasonic 4/3ds sensor considering Leica joined the 4/3rds consortium in 2006. Um sorry? APS-C and 4/3rds are entirely different...

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10-07-2011, 05:06 AM	#12
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by Blue Will we need a car loan to buy it. A Leica car. Nice.

10-07-2011, 07:44 AM	#13
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac Um sorry? APS-C and 4/3rds are entirely different... indeed they are. My bad.

10-09-2011, 10:37 PM	#14
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by Christine Tham No. I've used an M9, and you can't use the LCD when taking photos - it's only for reviewing afterwards. Mirrorless doesn't mean that you can use the LCD for composing. Anything that is not an SLR is technically a mirrorless camera.

10-10-2011, 04:41 AM	#15
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819 Original Poster	Mirrorless means it doesn't have a mirror to reflect the light up to the viewfinder prism. The advantage of such cameras is that this entire bulky assembly can be done away with. Terms like EVIL are misleading. In my article How (Not) To Name Your Camera System, I propose ILM (Interchangeable-Lens Mirrorless) as an acronym both correct and useful.