K200D to Panasonic GF1 switch advices?

ytterbium · 08-31-2011, 12:40 PM

Since photography has always been more of a fun hobby to me and doesn't look like it's going to evolve into anything more serious, i'm thinking of my system consolidation.
Currently i have too much stuff that i nearly don't use at all and a lot of stuff that is too big/heavy for my style of photography and life (cycling a lot).

I own various manual lenses, film cameras and other "crap" that might* cover the switch. My goal is to start with GF1, 20/1,7 prime and wide zoom. Later i might switch the zoom to 14/2.5 and get something with a better reach for portraits and nature.

Currently i can judge the GF1 by specs and on-line resources. Nowhere nearby to really try it out. How do you think it compares against my current camera? What functions i might miss, that are really relevant to actual use, not just specs. What downsides does it have? If anyone has done such switch, what regrets do you have?

Is such switch possible, knowing the low market value of k200d today and low value of other items i've gathered. I own several lenses in 30..80$ range. Some very basic and vintage film cameras and few a little more useful accessories. It seems that people aren't keen on various bits, besides the camera and main AF lenses.

gtxtom · 08-31-2011, 01:19 PM

I can tell you that the GF2 + 20mm give me some brutally sharp images. I really like that combo. I'm sure the GF1 will suit you well. And you can buy an adapter to use your Pentax lenses on the GF1.

elho_cid · 08-31-2011, 01:22 PM

If you can afford it, buy the new camera first before selling the old one. If you cannot afford it, stick with the present one. Switches don't work easily. You will lose a lot of money and energy and in the end you might see that you miss the original equipment, Only sell stuff that collects dust already.

ytterbium · 08-31-2011, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by elho_cid

If you can afford it, buy the new camera first before selling the old one. If you cannot afford it, stick with the present one. Switches don't work easily. You will lose a lot of money and energy and in the end you might see that you miss the original equipment, Only sell stuff that collects dust already.

Wise words. Thats the philosophy i've been sticking to for quite some while. But now that the winter is approaching, i feel it will be a lot harder to lug around my big gear and i'll get much more shooting with sub-par P&S (which i could sell as well to fund GF1). Also the shaking and bumping on ice and snow makes me worried about all the mirrors and complex mechanics. I always think that ill find some time in the next few days to get out for a walk and some shooting, but then again, how far can i get without my beloved two wheels..and P&S i take.

Selling the things i don't use will not yield significant enough amount of money to invest into something valuable (like better kit lens for example). It will get dissipated by daily expenses.

One of the things that makes me concerned, is that there are no real MICRO 4/3 zooms. This means if i want a longer lens i wont be ending in a much more compact system, just a lot more inconvenient shooting (4/3 adapter, large lens, small camera etc). Even worse is that if i cant afford Oly lenses, most third party products are basically APS-C or FF with 4/3 mount, making them exactly as big as my current gear.

Last edited by ytterbium; 08-31-2011 at 02:05 PM.

gtxtom · 08-31-2011, 03:39 PM

If you look at the offerings and whats just been announced, there are some new f2 zooms as well as the 7-14mm that are very high quality.

elho_cid · 08-31-2011, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by gtxtom

If you look at the offerings and whats just been announced, there are some new f2 zooms as well as the 7-14mm that are very high quality.

Hardly a proposition for someone on budget. Indeed if the OP wants something for longer lenses, building on the system around K200D may be better. Having a GF + 20/1,7 is a nice thing for street shooting but not an option for nature photos/wildlife.

Clicker · 08-31-2011, 04:17 PM

You'll lose a lot when the K200D came out i paid 1300ish CAD for the 18-55 kit package prior to the K5 i had no choice but to switch when i asked around about trading value i just shook my head so as timing would have it someone i deal with, their daughter needed a DSLR for beginners course so i just handed my bag to her

Naturally i kept a couple of film bodies with a few choice lenses.
In short if you can just add the GF1 otherwise do what you must.

nickthetasmaniac · 08-31-2011, 07:21 PM

First up, what lenses do you have at the moment? I've used several Pentax primes (K24, M35, M50) on my GH2 with a Fotodiox adapter (very cheap, it's just a metal tube...) and they perform wonderfully. Here's my flickr set for adapted lenses - mostly shot with the SMC M50/f1.4. 50mm primes make great portrait and general short-tele lenses on Micro Four Thirds, so if you don't mind manual-focus and you already have a couple, this will save money in the short-term.

My general suggestion, given that you seem to be on quite a budget and you like to be mobile:

GF1 - 2nd hand
m.ZD 9-18 or Lumix 14/f2.5 (depending on how small/wide/fast/cheap you want to go) - 2nd hand
Lumix 20/f1.7 - 2nd hand
manual legacy 50mm

This will give you decent speed and range, excellent IQ, and will fit in a very small bag and weigh bugger-all

If you need/want a tele, I'd get a 2nd-hand m.ZD 40-150 MkI (they just released a MkII 'R' version) - people often get these as a kit and then sell cheaply to upgrade to the longer zooms. I honestly can't think of any other lens in any system that gives this kind of reach and quality in such a compact package... Here's some images I've taken mine:

P1040154 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

P1030576 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

P1010228 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

P1010229 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Also, the GF1 is a bit of a classic and hasn't really been replaced yet, so they hold their 2nd hand value quite well. You may find a GF2 cheaper. The Olympus EPL1 can also be found very cheap and arguably has better IQ than the early Panasonics (in jpeg anyway...) - it also has in-body image-stabilisation.

Originally posted by ytterbium

One of the things that makes me concerned, is that there are no real MICRO 4/3 zooms.

There's several actually (these are all native mounts, designed specifically for Micro Four Thirds). Remember that you get 2x field of view compared to full-frame (in brackets), whereas your K200D will give 1.5x:

- m.ZD 14-150 (28-300mm)
- m.ZD 40-150 (80-300mm)
- m.ZD 75-300 (150-600mm)
- Lumix 14-140 (28-280mm)
- Lumix 45-200 (90-400mm)
- Lumix 100-300 (200-300mm)

These are all decent quality, and some are excellent. The m.ZD 40-150 is amazingly compact, fairly cheap and fairly sharp. I've used it with great success on my Panasonic GH2.

The Lumix 14-140 has very good performance for a super-zoom, but it's expensive and quite big. The newer Lumix 100-300 has a great reputation and gives a huge amount of reach in what's still a fairly small package (compared to APS/FF) - BHPhoto has them discounted at the moment too...

The issue is that there's no fast Micro Four Thirds zooms...

This means if i want a longer lens i wont be ending in a much more compact system, just a lot more inconvenient shooting (4/3 adapter, large lens, small camera etc). Even worse is that if i cant afford Oly lenses, most third party products are basically APS-C or FF with 4/3 mount, making them exactly as big as my current gear.

I'm not sure what you mean here, there aren't any third-party zooms for Micro Four Thirds. The only native third-party lens at all for MFT is the Voigtlander 25/f0.95.

Clicker · 09-01-2011, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac

Also, the GF1 is a bit of a classic and hasn't really been replaced yet, so they hold their 2nd hand value quite well.

Tell me about it!...been checking the few 20/1.7 kits left at my local store and it's still $800ish CAD plus taxes NIB

but if that X10 is better real world wise...then "forgetaboutit"

nickthetasmaniac · 09-01-2011, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by Clicker

But if that X10 is better real world wise...then "forgetaboutit"

You do mean the X10 and not the X100???

ytterbium · 09-01-2011, 09:48 AM

Well as for used stuff the local market is near non existent here (e.g. absolutely no GF's for sale currently). Maybe some lenses on rare occasions. But i wouldn't be buying used camera equipment anyway. Have burned too many times.

Thanks nickthetasmaniac for shedding some light on the lens choices. Actually i had very little idea, by only looking in local shops.

Sadly the Oly doesn't have built in flash. It's quite a lot cheaper and has sensor shift stabilization.

From the lenses i own, i might keep SMC Tak 55/1.8 and SMC Pentax-M 100/2.8. Alternatively the last one could take noticeable part in covering the switch.

Clicker · 09-01-2011, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac

You do mean the X10 and not the X100???

Yes, X10 vs GF1

johnmflores · 09-01-2011, 02:38 PM

The sweet spot in M43 right now are the second generation models. Owners of first gen models (GF1, E-P1, etc...) seem to be hoarding theirs as they lament the fact that subsequent generations have been "dumbed down". Take the GF2, for example. Panasonic replaced some of the physical controls with a touch screen. As a solution it works quite well and is even fewer moving parts to fail. But many still prefer dials and knobs and thus prize the GF1 more than the GF2. And since the GF3 has arrived, you'll sometimes find a steal as dealers clear GF2 stock for the newer model. For example:

- I purchased the GF2 + 14/F2.5 for $379. This combo was $700 just a couple of months ago
- Amazon had/has a Kindle Special Offer for the GF2 + 14/F2.5 for around $350
- Unique Photo currently has the Olympus E-PL2 with the 14-42 kit zoom for $399

FWIW, I went from a Pentax K20d to a GH2 and found the GH2 to be the IQ equal of the older Pentax model. My GF2 is not as good in low light as my GH2, but it is still very good:

ytterbium · 09-01-2011, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by johnmflores

- I purchased the GF2 + 14/F2.5 for $379. This combo was $700 just a couple of months ago
- Amazon had/has a Kindle Special Offer for the GF2 + 14/F2.5 for around $350
- Unique Photo currently has the Olympus E-PL2 with the 14-42 kit zoom for $399

Nice deals. Unfortunately this is true only for US. Its either high taxes or unreasonable shipping prices, so what i'm approximately getting is:
GF1 body - 520$
20/1.7 - 460$
GF2+14-42 - 620$ (no body only)
etc...

Btw, very pretty pictures you have there!

And with low light, even if the iso is better k200d's AF is useless with non-static subject. In this aspect i'm more concerned about the loss of stabilization.

nickthetasmaniac · 09-01-2011, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by ytterbium

Well as for used stuff the local market is near non existent here (e.g. absolutely no GF's for sale currently). Maybe some lenses on rare occasions. But i wouldn't be buying used camera equipment anyway. Have burned too many times.

There's several large m43 forums that have well-moderated For Sale sections with reliable feedback systems.

Sadly the Oly doesn't have built in flash. It's quite a lot cheaper and has sensor shift stabilization.

Both the EPL1 and EPL2 do have in-built flash - the EP1 and EP2 don't, and neither does the new EPL3.

From the lenses i own, i might keep SMC Tak 55/1.8 and SMC Pentax-M 100/2.8. Alternatively the last one could take noticeable part in covering the switch.

Both of these would be great on m43. Bare in mind that you would need different adapters (unless you already have an m42-PK adapter for the Tak.)

In terms of ISO (someone mentioned that), all of the m43 bodies will be an improvement over the K200D, smaller sensor or not

08-31-2011, 12:40 PM	#1
ytterbium Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,076	K200D to Panasonic GF1 switch advices? Since photography has always been more of a fun hobby to me and doesn't look like it's going to evolve into anything more serious, i'm thinking of my system consolidation. Currently i have too much stuff that i nearly don't use at all and a lot of stuff that is too big/heavy for my style of photography and life (cycling a lot). I own various manual lenses, film cameras and other "crap" that might* cover the switch. My goal is to start with GF1, 20/1,7 prime and wide zoom. Later i might switch the zoom to 14/2.5 and get something with a better reach for portraits and nature. Currently i can judge the GF1 by specs and on-line resources. Nowhere nearby to really try it out. How do you think it compares against my current camera? What functions i might miss, that are really relevant to actual use, not just specs. What downsides does it have? If anyone has done such switch, what regrets do you have? Is such switch possible, knowing the low market value of k200d today and low value of other items i've gathered. I own several lenses in 30..80$ range. Some very basic and vintage film cameras and few a little more useful accessories. It seems that people aren't keen on various bits, besides the camera and main AF lenses.

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08-31-2011, 01:19 PM	#2
gtxtom Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Philly Posts: 395	I can tell you that the GF2 + 20mm give me some brutally sharp images. I really like that combo. I'm sure the GF1 will suit you well. And you can buy an adapter to use your Pentax lenses on the GF1.

08-31-2011, 01:22 PM	#3
elho_cid Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Prague Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	If you can afford it, buy the new camera first before selling the old one. If you cannot afford it, stick with the present one. Switches don't work easily. You will lose a lot of money and energy and in the end you might see that you miss the original equipment, Only sell stuff that collects dust already.

08-31-2011, 01:52 PM	#4
ytterbium Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,076 Original Poster	Originally posted by elho_cid If you can afford it, buy the new camera first before selling the old one. If you cannot afford it, stick with the present one. Switches don't work easily. You will lose a lot of money and energy and in the end you might see that you miss the original equipment, Only sell stuff that collects dust already. Wise words. Thats the philosophy i've been sticking to for quite some while. But now that the winter is approaching, i feel it will be a lot harder to lug around my big gear and i'll get much more shooting with sub-par P&S (which i could sell as well to fund GF1). Also the shaking and bumping on ice and snow makes me worried about all the mirrors and complex mechanics. I always think that ill find some time in the next few days to get out for a walk and some shooting, but then again, how far can i get without my beloved two wheels..and P&S i take. Selling the things i don't use will not yield significant enough amount of money to invest into something valuable (like better kit lens for example). It will get dissipated by daily expenses. One of the things that makes me concerned, is that there are no real MICRO 4/3 zooms. This means if i want a longer lens i wont be ending in a much more compact system, just a lot more inconvenient shooting (4/3 adapter, large lens, small camera etc). Even worse is that if i cant afford Oly lenses, most third party products are basically APS-C or FF with 4/3 mount, making them exactly as big as my current gear. Last edited by ytterbium; 08-31-2011 at 02:05 PM.

08-31-2011, 03:39 PM	#5
gtxtom Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Philly Posts: 395	If you look at the offerings and whats just been announced, there are some new f2 zooms as well as the 7-14mm that are very high quality.

08-31-2011, 03:56 PM	#6
elho_cid Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Prague Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by gtxtom If you look at the offerings and whats just been announced, there are some new f2 zooms as well as the 7-14mm that are very high quality. Hardly a proposition for someone on budget. Indeed if the OP wants something for longer lenses, building on the system around K200D may be better. Having a GF + 20/1,7 is a nice thing for street shooting but not an option for nature photos/wildlife.

08-31-2011, 04:17 PM	#7
Clicker Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,241	You'll lose a lot when the K200D came out i paid 1300ish CAD for the 18-55 kit package prior to the K5 i had no choice but to switch when i asked around about trading value i just shook my head so as timing would have it someone i deal with, their daughter needed a DSLR for beginners course so i just handed my bag to her Naturally i kept a couple of film bodies with a few choice lenses. In short if you can just add the GF1 otherwise do what you must.

08-31-2011, 07:21 PM	#8
nickthetasmaniac Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,361	First up, what lenses do you have at the moment? I've used several Pentax primes (K24, M35, M50) on my GH2 with a Fotodiox adapter (very cheap, it's just a metal tube...) and they perform wonderfully. Here's my flickr set for adapted lenses - mostly shot with the SMC M50/f1.4. 50mm primes make great portrait and general short-tele lenses on Micro Four Thirds, so if you don't mind manual-focus and you already have a couple, this will save money in the short-term. My general suggestion, given that you seem to be on quite a budget and you like to be mobile: GF1 - 2nd hand m.ZD 9-18 or Lumix 14/f2.5 (depending on how small/wide/fast/cheap you want to go) - 2nd hand Lumix 20/f1.7 - 2nd hand manual legacy 50mm This will give you decent speed and range, excellent IQ, and will fit in a very small bag and weigh bugger-all If you need/want a tele, I'd get a 2nd-hand m.ZD 40-150 MkI (they just released a MkII 'R' version) - people often get these as a kit and then sell cheaply to upgrade to the longer zooms. I honestly can't think of any other lens in any system that gives this kind of reach and quality in such a compact package... Here's some images I've taken mine: P1040154 \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! P1030576 \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! P1010228 \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! P1010229 \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! Also, the GF1 is a bit of a classic and hasn't really been replaced yet, so they hold their 2nd hand value quite well. You may find a GF2 cheaper. The Olympus EPL1 can also be found very cheap and arguably has better IQ than the early Panasonics (in jpeg anyway...) - it also has in-body image-stabilisation. Originally posted by ytterbium One of the things that makes me concerned, is that there are no real MICRO 4/3 zooms. There's several actually (these are all native mounts, designed specifically for Micro Four Thirds). Remember that you get 2x field of view compared to full-frame (in brackets), whereas your K200D will give 1.5x: - m.ZD 14-150 (28-300mm) - m.ZD 40-150 (80-300mm) - m.ZD 75-300 (150-600mm) - Lumix 14-140 (28-280mm) - Lumix 45-200 (90-400mm) - Lumix 100-300 (200-300mm) These are all decent quality, and some are excellent. The m.ZD 40-150 is amazingly compact, fairly cheap and fairly sharp. I've used it with great success on my Panasonic GH2. The Lumix 14-140 has very good performance for a super-zoom, but it's expensive and quite big. The newer Lumix 100-300 has a great reputation and gives a huge amount of reach in what's still a fairly small package (compared to APS/FF) - BHPhoto has them discounted at the moment too... The issue is that there's no fast Micro Four Thirds zooms... This means if i want a longer lens i wont be ending in a much more compact system, just a lot more inconvenient shooting (4/3 adapter, large lens, small camera etc). Even worse is that if i cant afford Oly lenses, most third party products are basically APS-C or FF with 4/3 mount, making them exactly as big as my current gear. I'm not sure what you mean here, there aren't any third-party zooms for Micro Four Thirds. The only native third-party lens at all for MFT is the Voigtlander 25/f0.95.

09-01-2011, 05:39 AM	#9
Clicker Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,241	Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac Also, the GF1 is a bit of a classic and hasn't really been replaced yet, so they hold their 2nd hand value quite well. Tell me about it!...been checking the few 20/1.7 kits left at my local store and it's still $800ish CAD plus taxes NIB but if that X10 is better real world wise...then "forgetaboutit"

09-01-2011, 05:46 AM	#10
nickthetasmaniac Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,361	Originally posted by Clicker But if that X10 is better real world wise...then "forgetaboutit" You do mean the X10 and not the X100???

09-01-2011, 09:48 AM	#11
ytterbium Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,076 Original Poster	Well as for used stuff the local market is near non existent here (e.g. absolutely no GF's for sale currently). Maybe some lenses on rare occasions. But i wouldn't be buying used camera equipment anyway. Have burned too many times. Thanks nickthetasmaniac for shedding some light on the lens choices. Actually i had very little idea, by only looking in local shops. Sadly the Oly doesn't have built in flash. It's quite a lot cheaper and has sensor shift stabilization. From the lenses i own, i might keep SMC Tak 55/1.8 and SMC Pentax-M 100/2.8. Alternatively the last one could take noticeable part in covering the switch.

09-01-2011, 01:59 PM	#12
Clicker Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,241	Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac You do mean the X10 and not the X100??? Yes, X10 vs GF1

09-01-2011, 02:38 PM	#13
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	The sweet spot in M43 right now are the second generation models. Owners of first gen models (GF1, E-P1, etc...) seem to be hoarding theirs as they lament the fact that subsequent generations have been "dumbed down". Take the GF2, for example. Panasonic replaced some of the physical controls with a touch screen. As a solution it works quite well and is even fewer moving parts to fail. But many still prefer dials and knobs and thus prize the GF1 more than the GF2. And since the GF3 has arrived, you'll sometimes find a steal as dealers clear GF2 stock for the newer model. For example: - I purchased the GF2 + 14/F2.5 for $379. This combo was $700 just a couple of months ago - Amazon had/has a Kindle Special Offer for the GF2 + 14/F2.5 for around $350 - Unique Photo currently has the Olympus E-PL2 with the 14-42 kit zoom for $399 FWIW, I went from a Pentax K20d to a GH2 and found the GH2 to be the IQ equal of the older Pentax model. My GF2 is not as good in low light as my GH2, but it is still very good:

09-01-2011, 03:06 PM	#14
ytterbium Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,076 Original Poster	Originally posted by johnmflores - I purchased the GF2 + 14/F2.5 for $379. This combo was $700 just a couple of months ago - Amazon had/has a Kindle Special Offer for the GF2 + 14/F2.5 for around $350 - Unique Photo currently has the Olympus E-PL2 with the 14-42 kit zoom for $399 Nice deals. Unfortunately this is true only for US. Its either high taxes or unreasonable shipping prices, so what i'm approximately getting is: GF1 body - 520$ 20/1.7 - 460$ GF2+14-42 - 620$ (no body only) etc... Btw, very pretty pictures you have there! And with low light, even if the iso is better k200d's AF is useless with non-static subject. In this aspect i'm more concerned about the loss of stabilization.

09-01-2011, 06:16 PM	#15
nickthetasmaniac Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,361	Originally posted by ytterbium Well as for used stuff the local market is near non existent here (e.g. absolutely no GF's for sale currently). Maybe some lenses on rare occasions. But i wouldn't be buying used camera equipment anyway. Have burned too many times. There's several large m43 forums that have well-moderated For Sale sections with reliable feedback systems. Sadly the Oly doesn't have built in flash. It's quite a lot cheaper and has sensor shift stabilization. Both the EPL1 and EPL2 do have in-built flash - the EP1 and EP2 don't, and neither does the new EPL3. From the lenses i own, i might keep SMC Tak 55/1.8 and SMC Pentax-M 100/2.8. Alternatively the last one could take noticeable part in covering the switch. Both of these would be great on m43. Bare in mind that you would need different adapters (unless you already have an m42-PK adapter for the Tak.) In terms of ISO (someone mentioned that), all of the m43 bodies will be an improvement over the K200D, smaller sensor or not