New mirrorless Fuji system announced for 2012

kool100vr4 · 11-29-2011, 03:01 PM

OK, I see that i did not state my statement clearly enough here.
I dont hate DSLR , i make money with my DSLRs, but that dont mean that i have to like the extra weigh i have to carry, yes my DSLR gear are very heavy, bulky, cumbersome, and fragile, plus it cost a lot of money, no, im not giving it free to any body, but i may sell it all one day, all im saying is all full size DSLRs is on its way out, yes, i do own many DSLRs, but i did say that they are all too big, heavy and unnecessary to carry extra weigh/lenses. if we can have a mirror less camera body with bigger sensor with a fix lens or perhaps 2 lenses, we are in much better shape and expense, the truth is that no one really want to carry the extra weigh, if they have choices they would much rather carry less weigh, with that said, most all camera companies are making smaller cameras and lenses now, no company i know that is making big full size DSLR any more!?, only the big boys Canon and Nikon are still trying very hard to keep the DSLR style body, simply because they dont want their lenses to be obsoleted, both are stuck with the old fashion VR and OIS lenses, every other companies are already making IS( Image Stabilization) in the camera body, that is a much better technology and cheaper, every body likes cheaper and better stuff.
DSLR is great for fast shooting like sports , flying bird or live concerts....but the rest a nice 1 lens point and shoot can do all. i'm hoping some day 1 fix lens can rules it all.
I sure hope that helps explain my point, if not i'll do it again.
So back to this subject on Fuji, Fuji is coming back to the market strong with 2 new mirror less cameras, the X100 and X10, both are very exciting and both have fix lens, and the new HS20 that i have, have a fix lens too, but the range is from 24mm to 720mm, F2.8 to F5.6, plus a super macro mode at 1cm, plus HD video, plus Panorama mode at 120 to 360 degrees. It can do everything excepts the microwave.
So, i was really hoping that Fuji would come out with even better camera, like the mirror less body with a full frame sensor and 1 fix lens range from 24mm to 800mm.
PS. Fuji is coming out with the new XS1 soon in FEB.2012.
Here
FUJIFILM X-S1 | Fujifilm Global

pingflood · 11-30-2011, 12:47 AM

Thanks for clarifying things a bit since your first post was a little hard to grasp.

Now, as for a mirrorless camera with FF sensor and a 24-800 lens, that just won't happen. You mention that the issue with DSLRs is size and weight; well, a 24-800 (if it was even possible to construct) that covers a full frame sensor would be ENORMOUS. One of the reasons you can get those extreme focal lengths on current compact cameras is that the sensor is so small and requires a much smaller image circle and much less glass. I would imagine that 24-800 would easily weigh in around 20 lbs and cost more than a decent house. So, you are stuck compromising with using either a smaller sensor camera with a long range lens, or a larger sensor camera with multiple, heavier lenses.

eddie1960 · 11-30-2011, 06:46 AM

that does clarify it. I would also point out aside from the extreme bulk that superzoom lenses would add to a FF they are also a compromise. All zooms with big ranges are a compromise. While they can [produce some good images they cannot compete with a good prime or a high en smaller range zoom. I doubt the DSLR will disappear (heck the SLR was deemed the death of the rangefinder and it nearly was but they are still here close to 60 years later). Every camera has it's place. Even a plastic fantastic holga can produce worthwhile images
As for the rumoured mirrorless ILC based on the X100 I think it will be a huge hit even if it is expensive. Even at $2000 with 1 lens it will be a steal compared to a Leica. The only thing i find somewhat unfortunate is the choice to develop their own mount rather than go with the m mount. i understand the choice though, they want to sell you lenses as well as a camera and m mount is not AF so it is limited in it's market appeal. The positive is the Fujinon lenses can be very very good
I really like the X100 but I would love tobe able to change the lens occasionally (i can't always zoom with my feet either in or out. being able to carry 3 lenses - say 21,35 and 55 equivalents in a compact pancake size would cover almost all my needs, if it's in a small form factor with that great hybrid VF I could see getting rid of a lot of my other gear

sameagle · 11-30-2011, 07:34 AM

I get kool100vr4's point. My desire is somewhat similar to his: I'd love to see fuji do a camera in the style of x100 or x10 but with a nice big sensor (aps-c would be adequate) and with a fixed zoom from somewhat wide (24 or 28) to somewhat tele (85) and with a nice fast aperture ... 2.0 on the wide end to 2.8 on the tele end, just like the x10. If they could create a camera like that I might be content to dump my camera gear and just live with that one camera.

I'm a little torn with this whole interchangeable lens thing. On the one hand its fun and lets you be creative and really push for some special effects. On the other hand, it can be a big distraction the things that are truly important (being with my family, enjoying the moment rather than recording it).

And I suppose maybe that really is what causes a lot of this divide: are you looking for a professional tool to make a living (or a serious hobbyist), or are you a more casual user who can live with a more compromised but simple camera?

- Sam

(This was a quick post, hopefully it doesn't sound simple-minded! Haha)

pingflood · 11-30-2011, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by eddie1960

The only thing i find somewhat unfortunate is the choice to develop their own mount rather than go with the m mount. i understand the choice though, they want to sell you lenses as well as a camera and m mount is not AF so it is limited in it's market appeal. The positive is the Fujinon lenses can be very very good

Yeah, Fuji rarely screws up the optics on their cameras. The 60/4 on my GA645 is insanely sharp. As for M mount, as long as they leave the door open for an adapter then I think quite a few people would buy it as a "poor man's M9".

eddie1960 · 11-30-2011, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by sameagle

I get kool100vr4's point. My desire is somewhat similar to his: I'd love to see fuji do a camera in the style of x100 or x10 but with a nice big sensor (aps-c would be adequate) and with a fixed zoom from somewhat wide (24 or 28) to somewhat tele (85) and with a nice fast aperture ... 2.0 on the wide end to 2.8 on the tele end, just like the x10. If they could create a camera like that I might be content to dump my camera gear and just live with that one camera.

I'm a little torn with this whole interchangeable lens thing. On the one hand its fun and lets you be creative and really push for some special effects. On the other hand, it can be a big distraction the things that are truly important (being with my family, enjoying the moment rather than recording it).

And I suppose maybe that really is what causes a lot of this divide: are you looking for a professional tool to make a living (or a serious hobbyist), or are you a more casual user who can live with a more compromised but simple camera?

- Sam

(This was a quick post, hopefully it doesn't sound simple-minded! Haha)

Not simple minded at all.like I said every camera type has it's use as a photographic tool. Even if I had an ILC like the rumoured Fuji with 3 lenses i want, 80% of the time i'd be walking around with just one lens, i just like the option for when i need it. as it sits with 19+ lenses for my K7 and a range of other options on film, 80% of the time i walk around with just one (which one depends on my mood but likely 14/21/28 maybe a fast 50. Rarely my 24-70 2.8 zoom it just weighs too much)

kool100vr4 · 11-30-2011, 07:50 AM

To all check this out, our future is here...almost perfect or is it perfect?
FUJIFILM X-S1 | Fujifilm Global

pingflood · 11-30-2011, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by kool100vr4

To all check this out, our future is here...almost perfect or is it perfect?
FUJIFILM X-S1 | Fujifilm Global

I think we already have a thread going about this one and while it looks like a nice superzoom, it is still a small sensor (2/3") camera with an 58 mm2 sensor compared to 864 mm2 for a full frame camera, so the IQ can not reasonably be expected to be nearly as good.

But I would imagine that this could very well be the best performing camera in its category though.

Will it replace say a DSLR with a fast supertele lens? Not a chance.

eddie1960 · 11-30-2011, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by kool100vr4

To all check this out, our future is here...almost perfect or is it perfect?
FUJIFILM X-S1 | Fujifilm Global

your starting to sound like a fuji marketing shill now

kool100vr4 · 11-30-2011, 08:06 AM

I think this new FUJI XS1 is coming out in Feb 2012 and i think( not sure) the cost is about 800$, come on!!....Just close your eyes and imagine with this range 24-640mm plus macro, plus video, plus Panorama for the price, What would it cost on a set up like this on a DSLR?
WOW!...it's amazing....remember this is just the beginning, from now on all Camera Companies will follow, and it will be very exciting...

pingflood · 11-30-2011, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by kool100vr4

I think this new FUJI XS1 is coming out in Feb 2012 and i think( not sure) the cost is about 800$, come on!!....Just close your eyes and imagine with this range 24-640mm plus macro, plus video, plus Panorama for the price, What would it cost on a set up like this on a DSLR?
WOW!...it's amazing....remember this is just the beginning, from now on all Camera Companies will follow, and it will be very exciting...

Well, keep in mind that this is just another slightly better superzoom, and superzooms have been around for a decade now without changing the world. You can pick up an SX40, HS20, FZ150 etc for a few hundred bucks or so and get all the things you listed above TODAY. Heck, the Sony HX100V has a 27-810mm equiv. lens, autostiching "sweep" panoramas, 1080p video, macro focusing yada yada and you can just go pick one up at Best Buy if that is the feature set you are excited about. For about half the price of the XS1.

It would cost an absolute FORTUNE to get all of this on a DSLR, not to mention the size and weight. But with the DSLR you get better image quality and better overall performance. All cameras are compromise designs.

eddie1960 · 11-30-2011, 08:23 AM

Once again It's a superzoom. yep the bigger sensor will likely make it best in category but it is still a small sensor point and shoot camera. @$800 it bloody well better be best in category as well since the competition is well under that. As for the extended reach personally I'd rather have it go wider. many times i've needed to use my DA 14 to get a shot, I have rarely even used my 300 never mind needed to crop it to 600 (and on an apsc sensor even cropped to that extent the image quality would still be better)
So maybe this excites you, or maybe you are a Fuji shill, but it's not a groundbreaking camera that will kill the DSLR market
DSLR costs more money yep, it also performs better.
I hope Fuji sells a tonne nonetheless since i like to see them have the funds for developing there more esoteric projects that appeal to me (like the x100 and the upcoming ILC and the 6x9 co-developed with Bessa Voigtlander )

pingflood · 11-30-2011, 08:28 AM

Yeah, the X-S1 sensor might be nearly twice as big as most other superzooms, but it is still around 1/15th the size of a full frame one.

kool100vr4 · 11-30-2011, 08:30 AM

Very funny and interesting video here, watch and see...you make the choice...

You Tube

eddie1960 · 11-30-2011, 08:34 AM

honestly this is a thread about the upcoming ILC . this camera has nothing to do with that. If you are so excited about it post a thread on it (isn't there already one.)
Right now you just come off as a Fuji Marketing Troll trying to keep the focus on the newest available as opposed to whats coming
added to ignore list

11-29-2011, 03:01 PM	#31
kool100vr4 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 38	DSLR vs MIRRORLESS RANGE FINDER OK, I see that i did not state my statement clearly enough here. I dont hate DSLR , i make money with my DSLRs, but that dont mean that i have to like the extra weigh i have to carry, yes my DSLR gear are very heavy, bulky, cumbersome, and fragile, plus it cost a lot of money, no, im not giving it free to any body, but i may sell it all one day, all im saying is all full size DSLRs is on its way out, yes, i do own many DSLRs, but i did say that they are all too big, heavy and unnecessary to carry extra weigh/lenses. if we can have a mirror less camera body with bigger sensor with a fix lens or perhaps 2 lenses, we are in much better shape and expense, the truth is that no one really want to carry the extra weigh, if they have choices they would much rather carry less weigh, with that said, most all camera companies are making smaller cameras and lenses now, no company i know that is making big full size DSLR any more!?, only the big boys Canon and Nikon are still trying very hard to keep the DSLR style body, simply because they dont want their lenses to be obsoleted, both are stuck with the old fashion VR and OIS lenses, every other companies are already making IS( Image Stabilization) in the camera body, that is a much better technology and cheaper, every body likes cheaper and better stuff. DSLR is great for fast shooting like sports , flying bird or live concerts....but the rest a nice 1 lens point and shoot can do all. i'm hoping some day 1 fix lens can rules it all. I sure hope that helps explain my point, if not i'll do it again. So back to this subject on Fuji, Fuji is coming back to the market strong with 2 new mirror less cameras, the X100 and X10, both are very exciting and both have fix lens, and the new HS20 that i have, have a fix lens too, but the range is from 24mm to 720mm, F2.8 to F5.6, plus a super macro mode at 1cm, plus HD video, plus Panorama mode at 120 to 360 degrees. It can do everything excepts the microwave. So, i was really hoping that Fuji would come out with even better camera, like the mirror less body with a full frame sensor and 1 fix lens range from 24mm to 800mm. PS. Fuji is coming out with the new XS1 soon in FEB.2012. Here FUJIFILM X-S1 \| Fujifilm Global

11-30-2011, 07:50 AM	#37
kool100vr4 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 38	New fujifilm camera for 2012 To all check this out, our future is here...almost perfect or is it perfect? FUJIFILM X-S1 \| Fujifilm Global

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11-30-2011, 12:47 AM	#32
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Thanks for clarifying things a bit since your first post was a little hard to grasp. Now, as for a mirrorless camera with FF sensor and a 24-800 lens, that just won't happen. You mention that the issue with DSLRs is size and weight; well, a 24-800 (if it was even possible to construct) that covers a full frame sensor would be ENORMOUS. One of the reasons you can get those extreme focal lengths on current compact cameras is that the sensor is so small and requires a much smaller image circle and much less glass. I would imagine that 24-800 would easily weigh in around 20 lbs and cost more than a decent house. So, you are stuck compromising with using either a smaller sensor camera with a long range lens, or a larger sensor camera with multiple, heavier lenses.

11-30-2011, 06:46 AM	#33
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	that does clarify it. I would also point out aside from the extreme bulk that superzoom lenses would add to a FF they are also a compromise. All zooms with big ranges are a compromise. While they can [produce some good images they cannot compete with a good prime or a high en smaller range zoom. I doubt the DSLR will disappear (heck the SLR was deemed the death of the rangefinder and it nearly was but they are still here close to 60 years later). Every camera has it's place. Even a plastic fantastic holga can produce worthwhile images As for the rumoured mirrorless ILC based on the X100 I think it will be a huge hit even if it is expensive. Even at $2000 with 1 lens it will be a steal compared to a Leica. The only thing i find somewhat unfortunate is the choice to develop their own mount rather than go with the m mount. i understand the choice though, they want to sell you lenses as well as a camera and m mount is not AF so it is limited in it's market appeal. The positive is the Fujinon lenses can be very very good I really like the X100 but I would love tobe able to change the lens occasionally (i can't always zoom with my feet either in or out. being able to carry 3 lenses - say 21,35 and 55 equivalents in a compact pancake size would cover almost all my needs, if it's in a small form factor with that great hybrid VF I could see getting rid of a lot of my other gear

11-30-2011, 07:34 AM	#34
sameagle Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 323	I get kool100vr4's point. My desire is somewhat similar to his: I'd love to see fuji do a camera in the style of x100 or x10 but with a nice big sensor (aps-c would be adequate) and with a fixed zoom from somewhat wide (24 or 28) to somewhat tele (85) and with a nice fast aperture ... 2.0 on the wide end to 2.8 on the tele end, just like the x10. If they could create a camera like that I might be content to dump my camera gear and just live with that one camera. I'm a little torn with this whole interchangeable lens thing. On the one hand its fun and lets you be creative and really push for some special effects. On the other hand, it can be a big distraction the things that are truly important (being with my family, enjoying the moment rather than recording it). And I suppose maybe that really is what causes a lot of this divide: are you looking for a professional tool to make a living (or a serious hobbyist), or are you a more casual user who can live with a more compromised but simple camera? - Sam (This was a quick post, hopefully it doesn't sound simple-minded! Haha)

11-30-2011, 07:39 AM	#35
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by eddie1960 The only thing i find somewhat unfortunate is the choice to develop their own mount rather than go with the m mount. i understand the choice though, they want to sell you lenses as well as a camera and m mount is not AF so it is limited in it's market appeal. The positive is the Fujinon lenses can be very very good Yeah, Fuji rarely screws up the optics on their cameras. The 60/4 on my GA645 is insanely sharp. As for M mount, as long as they leave the door open for an adapter then I think quite a few people would buy it as a "poor man's M9".

11-30-2011, 07:48 AM	#36
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by sameagle I get kool100vr4's point. My desire is somewhat similar to his: I'd love to see fuji do a camera in the style of x100 or x10 but with a nice big sensor (aps-c would be adequate) and with a fixed zoom from somewhat wide (24 or 28) to somewhat tele (85) and with a nice fast aperture ... 2.0 on the wide end to 2.8 on the tele end, just like the x10. If they could create a camera like that I might be content to dump my camera gear and just live with that one camera. I'm a little torn with this whole interchangeable lens thing. On the one hand its fun and lets you be creative and really push for some special effects. On the other hand, it can be a big distraction the things that are truly important (being with my family, enjoying the moment rather than recording it). And I suppose maybe that really is what causes a lot of this divide: are you looking for a professional tool to make a living (or a serious hobbyist), or are you a more casual user who can live with a more compromised but simple camera? - Sam (This was a quick post, hopefully it doesn't sound simple-minded! Haha) Not simple minded at all.like I said every camera type has it's use as a photographic tool. Even if I had an ILC like the rumoured Fuji with 3 lenses i want, 80% of the time i'd be walking around with just one lens, i just like the option for when i need it. as it sits with 19+ lenses for my K7 and a range of other options on film, 80% of the time i walk around with just one (which one depends on my mood but likely 14/21/28 maybe a fast 50. Rarely my 24-70 2.8 zoom it just weighs too much)

11-30-2011, 07:55 AM	#38
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by kool100vr4 To all check this out, our future is here...almost perfect or is it perfect? FUJIFILM X-S1 \| Fujifilm Global I think we already have a thread going about this one and while it looks like a nice superzoom, it is still a small sensor (2/3") camera with an 58 mm2 sensor compared to 864 mm2 for a full frame camera, so the IQ can not reasonably be expected to be nearly as good. But I would imagine that this could very well be the best performing camera in its category though. Will it replace say a DSLR with a fast supertele lens? Not a chance.

11-30-2011, 07:58 AM	#39
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by kool100vr4 To all check this out, our future is here...almost perfect or is it perfect? FUJIFILM X-S1 \| Fujifilm Global your starting to sound like a fuji marketing shill now

11-30-2011, 08:06 AM	#40
kool100vr4 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 38	I think this new FUJI XS1 is coming out in Feb 2012 and i think( not sure) the cost is about 800$, come on!!....Just close your eyes and imagine with this range 24-640mm plus macro, plus video, plus Panorama for the price, What would it cost on a set up like this on a DSLR? WOW!...it's amazing....remember this is just the beginning, from now on all Camera Companies will follow, and it will be very exciting...

11-30-2011, 08:19 AM	#41
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by kool100vr4 I think this new FUJI XS1 is coming out in Feb 2012 and i think( not sure) the cost is about 800$, come on!!....Just close your eyes and imagine with this range 24-640mm plus macro, plus video, plus Panorama for the price, What would it cost on a set up like this on a DSLR? WOW!...it's amazing....remember this is just the beginning, from now on all Camera Companies will follow, and it will be very exciting... Well, keep in mind that this is just another slightly better superzoom, and superzooms have been around for a decade now without changing the world. You can pick up an SX40, HS20, FZ150 etc for a few hundred bucks or so and get all the things you listed above TODAY. Heck, the Sony HX100V has a 27-810mm equiv. lens, autostiching "sweep" panoramas, 1080p video, macro focusing yada yada and you can just go pick one up at Best Buy if that is the feature set you are excited about. For about half the price of the XS1. It would cost an absolute FORTUNE to get all of this on a DSLR, not to mention the size and weight. But with the DSLR you get better image quality and better overall performance. All cameras are compromise designs.

11-30-2011, 08:23 AM	#42
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Once again It's a superzoom. yep the bigger sensor will likely make it best in category but it is still a small sensor point and shoot camera. @$800 it bloody well better be best in category as well since the competition is well under that. As for the extended reach personally I'd rather have it go wider. many times i've needed to use my DA 14 to get a shot, I have rarely even used my 300 never mind needed to crop it to 600 (and on an apsc sensor even cropped to that extent the image quality would still be better) So maybe this excites you, or maybe you are a Fuji shill, but it's not a groundbreaking camera that will kill the DSLR market DSLR costs more money yep, it also performs better. I hope Fuji sells a tonne nonetheless since i like to see them have the funds for developing there more esoteric projects that appeal to me (like the x100 and the upcoming ILC and the 6x9 co-developed with Bessa Voigtlander )

11-30-2011, 08:28 AM	#43
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Yeah, the X-S1 sensor might be nearly twice as big as most other superzooms, but it is still around 1/15th the size of a full frame one.

11-30-2011, 08:34 AM	#45
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	honestly this is a thread about the upcoming ILC . this camera has nothing to do with that. If you are so excited about it post a thread on it (isn't there already one.) Right now you just come off as a Fuji Marketing Troll trying to keep the focus on the newest available as opposed to whats coming added to ignore list