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02-05-2012, 06:50 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Duh_Vinci Quote
Have to agree with you on that indeed... Though not interested in the grip or the battery pack (still want to keep it it as small as I can)


It can certainly help, but to be honest with you, I learned how to love the natural light somehow... My E-P1 has not built it flash, and I don't seem to miss it either.

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D
So, can the panasonic mico 4/3rd lenses be used in olympus cameras?

02-05-2012, 08:05 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
So, can the panasonic mico 4/3rd lenses be used in olympus cameras?
Absolutely. I use a 20mm Panasonic lens on an Olympus Epl1.

You should be aware that the Panasonic 20mm and 25mm have been reported to be noisier on Olympus cams than Olympus lenses as the aperture opens or closes down depending on the amount of light coming into the sensor to control the Live View brightness. There's a lot of clicking as it opens and closes; it happens on my lens, but doesn't bother me.
02-05-2012, 08:20 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by taurus9 Quote
Absolutely. I use a 20mm Panasonic lens on an Olympus Epl1.

You should be aware that the Panasonic 20mm and 25mm have been reported to be noisier on Olympus cams than Olympus lenses as the aperture opens or closes down depending on the amount of light coming into the sensor to control the Live View brightness. There's a lot of clicking as it opens and closes; it happens on my lens, but doesn't bother me.
Wow! so this lens on the OM-D would be quite a compact kit and among the two manufacturers there is a nice selection. With an adapter the Pentax lenses can also be used, but how is the metering and aperture comtrol?

02-05-2012, 08:33 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
So, can the panasonic mico 4/3rd lenses be used in olympus cameras?
I use Olympus m4/3rds lenses on my GH2 and it works the other way also.

02-05-2012, 08:39 PM   #50
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Yes, Panasonic and Olympus m4/3 are completely interchangeable and both will work with either. A lot of people prefer Panasonic for the video capability and 16mp sensor (versus Olympus 12mp), but others prefer Olympus for the IBIS.

I like the new OM-D, but I'll wait for the price to drop. I think IQ is a moot point if you don't feel like carrying a DSLR to shoot. In other words, the camera left at home won't be taking any photos. An example is a recent trip I had to Thailand and Laos. I ended up taking my K-5 and an Olympus XZ-1 point and shoot with me. I often ended up leaving the K-5 behind because I felt the XZ-1 was good enough and I didn't want to heft the K-5 around. I think that's how a lot of people feel, in that they're perfectly fine using something smaller like their phones. My friends and co-workers are always astonished at how good their iPhone photos turn out. Most people just post their photos on Facebook or Flickr today anyhow, so the IQ of a m4/3 should be fine, especially if you don't really print.

Now is the OM-D the camera for the general populace? Nope, the price is too high, but again it's not entry level nor aimed at the typical consumer. If anything, it's for the m4/3 users who have been desiring a weather sealed body, but I can see it drawing curiosity and even stealing customers from Nikon/Canon. The K-01 I view in a similar manner, where it appeals to folks who already have Pentax glass (i.e. existing users), but in contrast to the OM-D, I don't really see it stealing sales from existing Canikon users. If you ever check out the m4/3 forums, you'll see a lot of folks who switched from Canikon because they like the weight savings, whether it be for Panasonic or Olympus camera. Not sure if they same would do so for the K-01 considering the size and the fact it has no VF. Reading through this forum, I see many people who have switched from Canikon for the K-5 for exactly those reasons. Lighter body, weather sealed, great IQ. The rumor site was saying the OM-D was going to be 369 grams, which I believe is just the body. That's about 0.8lbs or so! Throw in either the Lecia/Panasonic 25mm f1.4 or any of the Olympus primes (12mm f2 or 45mm f1.8), you've got a nice light weight package. Although not as good as the K-5, is "good enough" IQ.
02-05-2012, 08:51 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by kswier Quote
What do you mean by IQ? Is it the ability to shoot clean high ISO shots? Is it the ability to obtain smaller depths of field? More megapixels? There is no doubt the K-01 will have a better sensor (it is larger), but the real question is whether the OM-D will be good enough. As long as the new camera can perform as well as my k200D at base ISO and better than at high ISO (not hard to do, since my k200d tops out at ISO1600), I will be happy.




I don't understand this statement. Is there something I am unaware of (I mean this seriously, don't want to buy into a mount that is going away)? It seems to me that Olympus has been investing heavily in the micro 4/3 format. I a unsure if they would be doing this if it were in danger.

By IQ, I mean image quality in every sense. Wider dynamic range, less noise at any given ISO, more flexibility with DOF control. The lot. I'm sure the Oly will have very good IQ, but by virtue of its sensor size (to say nothing of the advanced Sony sensor design that Pentax seem to tweak extra magic from), it is destined to have poorer IQ than the X-01. I agree with your point though, for many people "very good" IQ is perfectly acceptable.

As regards M4/3 in general... well, technology marches on. 480P plasma TVs were the bomb when they first came out. Then 720P was seen as the entry level to HD TVs. Now it's 1080P. It will not be very long at all until we start getting cameras that record in 4K and TVs that will display 4K natively. YouTube already accepts 4K uploads:

4K resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then there'll be 8K:

Ultra High Definition Television - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, as people's prime viewing medium improves, so will everything else. Including their prime capturing equipment. A few years down the road when you're reading reviews on M4/3 vs a mirrorless FF, the poor little sensor won't stand a chance.
02-06-2012, 03:07 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote

As regards M4/3 in general... well, technology marches on. 480P plasma TVs were the bomb when they first came out. Then 720P was seen as the entry level to HD TVs. Now it's 1080P. It will not be very long at all until we start getting cameras that record in 4K and TVs that will display 4K natively. .
I have to ask a question here. I currently have a 720p TV (42" LG plasma) and to be honest I do not see any real difference between 720p and 1080p at normal viewing distances. What will 4K do for me?

Nothing against technology, but I'd like to see the advantages before sinking money into it.

02-06-2012, 03:28 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Falc...I have some great features myself but am ugly as dirt.......I can tell you, looks can outsell performance! I was damn lucky I grabbed Mrs Rupert while she was delirious with the flu and semi-conscious all those many years ago. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard "how'd you get her?" I'd own a lot more glass than I do!

Regards!
Hahaha - I know just what the lovely Mrs Rupert saw in you ... your great sense of humour (and I've no doubt she loves squirrels too) !
02-06-2012, 03:57 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
I have to ask a question here. I currently have a 720p TV (42" LG plasma) and to be honest I do not see any real difference between 720p and 1080p at normal viewing distances. What will 4K do for me?

Nothing against technology, but I'd like to see the advantages before sinking money into it.
4K is like looking at a moving magazine image. You'll most definitely notice the difference when you experience it.
02-06-2012, 06:03 AM   #55
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if pentax did the same for their mirrorless, as a digital LX, with k5 sensor... that was what i was hoping for... sad that oly beat them to the punch if only ricoh and pentax reads the forums, they would have seen many of us hankering for an LX styled camera... thinking of getting this oly, though being m4/3 is a shame.
02-06-2012, 07:08 AM   #56
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Samsung NX20 is supposed to have the retro look as well (a more rangefinder look) with APS-C sensor with EVF and rumored to be less than US $1k...they also have a few pancake primes. I just might pick one of these up as I do love this retro look and you live only once.
02-06-2012, 07:38 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
I have to ask a question here. I currently have a 720p TV (42" LG plasma) and to be honest I do not see any real difference between 720p and 1080p at normal viewing distances. What will 4K do for me?

Nothing against technology, but I'd like to see the advantages before sinking money into it.
If you have a 720p TV, then the maximum horizontal resolution your TV can resolve is 720 lines (P = progressive). Your TV can't magically display more lines than it's physically capable of. So if you view 1080p content on it, it will be down sampled to 720 lines. In other words, no difference to you.

That being said, there's minimal difference between 720 and 1080 anyway on a 42"... You will see more of a difference if you get a 55" or larger screen, still it isn't anything mind blowing. I heard the 4k thing is pretty mind blowing - like the equivalent of going from SD to HD. Haven't seen any sample myself though.
02-06-2012, 09:44 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
Samsung NX20 is supposed to...
If it isn't just vapourware. It was expected (by fairly reliable rumors) to be released last summer. Then CES/PMA. Then these days at CP+. We shall see.
02-06-2012, 12:21 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yassarian Quote
If you have a 720p TV, then the maximum horizontal resolution your TV can resolve is 720 lines (P = progressive). Your TV can't magically display more lines than it's physically capable of. So if you view 1080p content on it, it will be down sampled to 720 lines. In other words, no difference to you.
Sorry, I may have mislead you with what I wrote. I don't mean that I am playing downscaled 1080p content on my TV and expecting something different; I was basing it on having compared other 42" sets. And I really don't see much of a difference. Well, any at all, to be honest.

QuoteQuote:
That being said, there's minimal difference between 720 and 1080 anyway on a 42"... You will see more of a difference if you get a 55" or larger screen, still it isn't anything mind blowing. I heard the 4k thing is pretty mind blowing - like the equivalent of going from SD to HD. Haven't seen any sample myself though.
It'll be interesting to see for sure. I work (in IT, admittedly) for a large consumer electronics retailer so get to take a look at some stuff fairly early.
02-06-2012, 12:37 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
By IQ, I mean image quality in every sense. Wider dynamic range, less noise at any given ISO, more flexibility with DOF control. The lot. I'm sure the Oly will have very good IQ, but by virtue of its sensor size (to say nothing of the advanced Sony sensor design that Pentax seem to tweak extra magic from), it is destined to have poorer IQ than the X-01. I agree with your point though, for many people "very good" IQ is perfectly acceptable.

As regards M4/3 in general... well, technology marches on. 480P plasma TVs were the bomb when they first came out. Then 720P was seen as the entry level to HD TVs. Now it's 1080P. It will not be very long at all until we start getting cameras that record in 4K and TVs that will display 4K natively. YouTube already accepts 4K uploads:

4K resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then there'll be 8K:

Ultra High Definition Television - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, as people's prime viewing medium improves, so will everything else. Including their prime capturing equipment. A few years down the road when you're reading reviews on M4/3 vs a mirrorless FF, the poor little sensor won't stand a chance.
Wait, so viewing mediums will improve from HD to 4k to 8k, and FF and APS-C will continue to improve to match these new viewing mediums, but 4/3 sensors are going to somehow stand still?

The size difference between APS-C and 4/3 (40% by area, a comparison biased by aspect ratio in favor of APS-C) has been exaggerated and harped on from day one, but the real reason for the difference in IQ between 4/3 and APS-C we're seeing is a result of Panasonic's mediocre chip design. If you cut one of sony's recent sensors down to 4/3 size, in equal-output-size comparisons (the only kind that really mean anything) there would be less than 1/2 stop of difference in DR and high ISO performance between the 4/3 sensor and the original. Probably less than 1/3.

Will APS-C always have a slight IQ advantage? Yes. But 4/3 not standing a chance? Come on, now. Oly is no longer tied to Panasonic for sensors (contract ended 2012) and Sony and Fuji have both immediately shown interest in collaboration with Olympus. Crop-sensor cameras are not going to lose their position as the bulk of the advanced camera market anytime soon, and if Olympus finally gets some competent sensor tech in their cameras there will be little sense in choosing APS-C over m4/3 from an IQ standpoint, unless that 1/3 stop of DR is a REALLY big deal to you. What will matter is ergonomics, optics, and the strength of the system, some areas in which Olympus is continually checking the boxes. On those criteria, honestly, I'd put it at the top of the mirrorless market. The current sensor tech (not size) is where it falls behind.

Personally I've come to love the low-ISO DR afforded by the sony sensor in my K-x, but considering the E-M5's 9fps and best IS on the market, I'd be happy to rely on bracketed bursts and a little extra PP for high-DR scenes. The other pluses of the camera (and system it's part of) more than make up for it, to me.
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