Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
02-16-2012, 09:42 PM   #1
Pentaxian
jsherman999's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,232
Looks like D800 may have almost a stop on D700

.

Very preliminary, but the usual & excellent dpreview-Nikon-fora engineers have done some analysis on NEFs (raw) they were able to get a hold of, and...


QuoteQuote:
QuoteQuote:
how does the D800 compare to the D700 at Base ISO and ISO 6400 after sizing both image to the same dimensions?

First, we don't have information about D800 performance at base ISO.

Second, IMO, performance at an ISO isn't what matters; what matters is how high an ISO you can use and get the same finished output quality.

Using the PDR numbers I see a .85 EV advantage in favor of the D800 over the D700. That's an ISO factor of about 1.8

So, if you like the D700 at ISO 1600 then you'll get similar results with a D800 at ISO (1600 * 1.8) = ISO 2880


Regards

Bill


--> Link Here.



.

02-16-2012, 11:14 PM   #2
Veteran Member
Jewelltrail's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,180
This is what a lot of the super camera geeks over @ DPreview have been guestimating, for a long while now--interesting. And yet, Nikon's GM of Marketing is quoted as saying the D700 will stay in production, for as long as there is demand--sounds a lot like the D90 deal to me. Nikon makes some incredible stuff--bodies retain high esteem, years after their release. You have to love Nikon.

Here is the article from which I quote:

Nikon D800E: Exclusive CP+ interview news - Amateur Photographer - news, camera reviews, lens reviews, camera equipment guides, photography courses, competitions, photography forums

Last edited by Jewelltrail; 02-17-2012 at 11:21 AM.
02-17-2012, 06:01 AM   #3
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Taylor, Texas
Posts: 1,018
I have a D800 on pre-order but no way I'm selling the D700. The D800 is really expensive, but it's not like they are going to make a better camera 1 year from now. I have admire Nikon for that. It takes a bit of investment to get their best equipment but it maintains it's value and you don't get stuck on the upgrade merry go round. I've learned my lesson the hard and expensive way on that.
02-17-2012, 06:18 AM   #4
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 11,585
I seriously doubt that on a per-pixel basis the D800 will exceed the D700's high-ISO or DR.

DXO will, i think, be rush reviewing the D800, so not long to wait for definitive data.

The D800 will still be a great landscape/studio etc camera, but beating the D700 or D3s on high-ISO wasn't a design goal, I'm sure. That's what the D4 is for.

02-17-2012, 07:11 AM   #5
Veteran Member
Emacs's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,223
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
per-pixel
it's pointless, pixelpeeping is for geeks only
the only valid comparison is too review exactly similar pictures (i.e. ones of D800 must be downscaled)
02-17-2012, 09:20 AM   #6
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Taylor, Texas
Posts: 1,018
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I seriously doubt that on a per-pixel basis the D800 will exceed the D700's high-ISO or DR.

DXO will, i think, be rush reviewing the D800, so not long to wait for definitive data.

The D800 will still be a great landscape/studio etc camera, but beating the D700 or D3s on high-ISO wasn't a design goal, I'm sure. That's what the D4 is for.
I sure wish it had a smaller sensor. Oh well......................

I'm doing a big camera upgrade this year X Pro and D800. I sold off almost everything else. I currently have my MFT stuff about to go up for sale. I think both of those will be good for a long time. I'm not going to sell the D700 though. I love that camera almost as much as the X100.
02-17-2012, 08:08 PM   #7
Pentaxian
jsherman999's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,232
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I seriously doubt that on a per-pixel basis the D800 will exceed the D700's high-ISO or DR.

DXO will, i think, be rush reviewing the D800, so not long to wait for definitive data.

The D800 will still be a great landscape/studio etc camera, but beating the D700 or D3s on high-ISO wasn't a design goal, I'm sure. That's what the D4 is for.
I would have bet a lot of money against that also, but we'll have to wait and see, because some folks are saying that it may match the D3s in SNR and be a stop ahead in DR up past ISO 800. That's simply astounding for a $3000 camera, if true...

QuoteOriginally posted by teodorian2:
QuoteOriginally posted by Horshack ::

QuoteOriginally posted by Marianne Oelund ::
Mine doesn't. The data set I have is very consistent now, and fits within usual experimental error (1-2%) to
Shot noise = 1.108 * sqrt(signal), where noise and signal are in ADU.
This extrapolates to an ISO 100 FWC of about 52k e-, implying a QE of about 54% if we factor against an assumed QE of 57% for D3s.
However, don't quote me on that, because it's just an extrapolation from ISO 400 data. Strange things can happen between ISO 400 and ISO 100.
If these numbers hold up the D800 will have remarkable performance, the best base ISO ISO 35mm ever plus nearly indistinguishable High ISO performance vs a D3s. I've been wanting this theoretical camera for 3 years.
So the D800, D3s och D4 will be almost indentical in SNR but the D800 and D4 1 stop ahead in DR up to ISO 800/1600.

---> link


.
02-17-2012, 08:17 PM   #8
Pentaxian
Pablom's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Jerusalem
Posts: 1,940
I'm sure the D800 is a great camera, but the high sensitivity improvement doesn't sound like much for 3 1/2 years of R&D

02-17-2012, 08:40 PM   #9
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 11,585
QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
because some folks are saying that it may match the D3s in SNR and be a stop ahead in DR up past ISO 800
I remain sceptical. Even if technology has marched on a lot, it's a big challenge cramming all those extra pixels in, even into a FF sensor.

Also why would anyone buy the more expensive [and merely 16MP] D4 if the D800 turns out to rock hard from base ISO all the way up to high-ISO?

D4 will go to ISO 204,000, D800 'only' up to 25,600 (the same as the D700). Even if people won't really ever use those maximum ISO's, that suggests a lot.
02-17-2012, 08:53 PM   #10
Pentaxian
jsherman999's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,232
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Pablom Quote
I'm sure the D800 is a great camera, but the high sensitivity improvement doesn't sound like much for 3 1/2 years of R&D
It's 36MP! The D800 is designed to be a 5D(x) competitor in several ways, almost more than it's supposed to be a 'true' D700 replacement.

It's functionally almost able to replace both a $7500 and a $5000 camera (D3X & D3s) with one smaller, $3000 camera, with faster low-light AF (!) than the already-magical-in-low-light D700, and pro-level video capability thrown in to boot.

I'd say that's enough for this iteration.

Last edited by jsherman999; 02-17-2012 at 09:10 PM.
02-17-2012, 09:06 PM   #11
Veteran Member
dgaies's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maryland / Washington DC
Posts: 3,917
QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
I'd say that's enough for this iteration.
You're so easy to please
02-19-2012, 06:42 AM - 1 Like   #12
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 11,585
Looks like Nikon are preparing prospective D800 users to be careful about using high-resolution DSLR's:

QuoteQuote:
While its high pixel count of 36 megapixels gives the D800/D800E resolution unrivalled by previous digital SLR cameras, a side effect is that bokeh and blur are made that much more obvious. Realizing the full potential of a camera with over 30 million pixels involves a thorough appreciation of bokeh and blur, careful selection of settings and of tools
QuoteQuote:
At the high resolutions offered by the D800/D800E, even the slightest camera motion can result in blur. The technique revealed in this section minimizes blur through a combination of live view photography and a tripod.
QuoteQuote:
Use a tripod to reduce blur when photographing static subjects.
QuoteQuote:
At the high resolutions offered by the D800/D800E, even the slap of the mirror can sometimes be enough to blur photographs.
QuoteQuote:
The superior resolution of the D800/D800E makes small amounts of focus blur more obvious. Select a shutter speed slightly faster than you would choose when photographing the same subject with other cameras.
QuoteQuote:
With the D800/D800E, you will notice that photos seem to have less depth of field than pictures shot with other cameras under the same conditions, and that focus consequently requires more attention.
etc:

A lot of the advice seems like Nikon trying to get one step ahead of the flood of disgruntled users on the web once they get ahold of the new higher-resolution camera, with complaints about 'D800 not as sharp as D700', 'my lens is soft', 'D800 AF is crap' etc.

Sounds uncannily similar to some of the issues you read about in these forums when people upgrade to the K-5 from the K10D, K200D, K-x etc.

Nikon Technical Guide to the D800/800E
02-19-2012, 07:07 AM   #13
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Taylor, Texas
Posts: 1,018
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Looks like Nikon are preparing prospective D800 users to be careful about using high-resolution DSLR's:













etc:

A lot of the advice seems like Nikon trying to get one step ahead of the flood of disgruntled users on the web once they get ahold of the new higher-resolution camera, with complaints about 'D800 not as sharp as D700', 'my lens is soft', 'D800 AF is crap' etc.

Sounds uncannily similar to some of the issues you read about in these forums when people upgrade to the K-5 from the K10D, K200D, K-x etc.

Nikon Technical Guide to the D800/800E
I have this camera on pre-order but I will say I think 36 megapixels is just overkill for a lot of photographers (especially me). But.........I'm not sure this if I'm really the person this camera is designed for. I'm very easy to please and not very picky. I'm happy with everything from an X10 to a D700. Should be interesting.

However, I think people who make their living with a camera will be happy with it.
02-19-2012, 07:21 AM   #14
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 11,585
I'm not knocking the D800. It seems like it will be a great tool, but a demanding instrument.

It may take many users some time to adapt to it, by the sound of Nikon's Technical Guide, through no fault of the hardware.
02-19-2012, 08:09 AM   #15
Pentaxian
jsherman999's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,232
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Looks like Nikon are preparing prospective D800 users to be careful about using high-resolution DSLR's:


etc:

A lot of the advice seems like Nikon trying to get one step ahead of the flood of disgruntled users on the web once they get ahold of the new higher-resolution camera, with complaints about 'D800 not as sharp as D700', 'my lens is soft', 'D800 AF is crap' etc.

Sounds uncannily similar to some of the issues you read about in these forums when people upgrade to the K-5 from the K10D, K200D, K-x etc.

Nikon Technical Guide to the D800/800E

Yes, basically it comes down to: At regular display sizes, even very large sizes, it will never produce worse output than the D700 can bring, and in almost all circumstances it will produce better output. At 200% pixel-peeping of sessions shot at iffy shutter speeds, you will be able to see hand motion blur or slight focus errors that you couldn't see with the D700, because the D700 simply couldn't resolve that much. But again, display both those images at regular sizes, and they will look the same. And again, at adequate shutter speeds, even the pixel-peeping sessions will look better on the D800.

The guide Nikon published is indeed intended to get in front of newbies buying the camera, shooting handheld telephoto at 1/50s, pixel-peeping the results and thinking there's something wrong with the camera

.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
base, d700, d800, iso, matters, performance
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
D800 IQ is far from MF ogl Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 54 02-21-2012 01:44 AM
Pentax K? and Nikon D800 Don Boyd Pentax DSLR Discussion 35 01-23-2012 12:44 PM
Nikon D800 FF due soon? joe.penn Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 8 12-26-2011 11:53 AM
Ladies and Gentlemen, say hello to the D800! JohnBee Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 22 11-22-2011 06:05 PM
Nikon D800 Netsoft Photographic Industry and Professionals 7 11-20-2011 03:26 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:40 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top