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02-22-2012, 08:56 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Fuji Xpro1 is still the most interesting.
Pretty tall claims that its better than FF.
But ISO6400 seems impressive indeed.
Fujifilm X-Pro1 : Singapore Launch

Furthermore, they seem to have the fast small primes to pull off a successful system.


FF Sony will be SLT, I doubt FF NEX will be out this year since it has no good lenses and NEX7 hasn't even got a ROI due to the flood damage in Thailand.


I'd certainly be interested in the next PP DSLR, MILC and Q








Oddly very few of the so called mirrorless proponents (eg. Kirk Tuck, Steve Huff) seems to have taken much interest in G3 when it 1st came out. Perhaps over shadowed by the EP3 series of cameras and the utilitarian DSLR styling of the G3.
At least its getting some deserved time on VSL now.
Completely agree on the G3. If any camera seems overpriced it's the Olympus. Whatever sensor they have in the new camera I will guarantee Panasonic will release something later this year that will be 1-2 years ahead of them again. I almost went for an E-P3 until I realized it had the same sensor they had been using for several years. The G3 is a much better deal for that sensor size than the Olympus which I doubt will have better IQ. That said Olympus does have a great JPEG processor.

I'm going with the Fuji. I certainly wouldn't recommend it because it's going to be one those love or hate cameras much like the X100. It's not going to auto focus as fast as MFT but will have far better IQ. It's not going to focus as fast a DSLR but will be much lighter and for some people more fun to use. It's a different kind of camera and I'm glad they make it. I'm staying out of the better or worse than FF argument because in the end everyone is going to have their opinion on that one and to me it's kind of a silly argument anyway. If it's better or worse than FF it's still not going to make me a better or worse photographer. I have a FF camera. They are great but it's not what some people on this forum make it out to be. If I were betting, I'd bet that the Fuji will be outstanding in terms of IQ. I've read three people's reports on the web that have actually used the camera, Flysurfer, the guy from The Camera Store, and the Australian Photographer. They have been unanimous on the praising the cameras image quality as outstanding. The rest is people just repeating what somebody wrote because they looked at a JPEG and probably weren't going to buy the camera anyway. That kind of stuff just gets repeated over and over in the hall of mirrors that is the internet. I find it kind of amusing that people who haven't even used the camera have such intimate knowledge of it's positive/negatives based on a couple of JPEG images they looked at on the internet (I wonder what kind of monitor they had?). I guess everyone (myself included of course) is an expert these days. The Camera Store guy has been replying to people on DPR regarding the camera since he actually used it...go figure..... These quotes probably sum it up better than most:

"Neither of those says it is AS GOOD as the GX1/EP3. I would say AF is snappier than the NEX cameras, but slower than the best Micro 4/3."

"That's a tough question. The NEX-7 was my Camera Of The Year
https://www.thecamerastore.com/...g/2011/12/31/camera-store-tv-best-2011-list
because it was the first mirrorless camera with great handling and a cutting edge sensor. It also has great video, with full manual control, a mic jack, and variable frame rates. I think it is the most well rounded mirrorless camera right now.
However, the Fuji X-Pro1 is the most fun I've had shooting stills in a long time. I love shooting rangefinders, and the X-Pro1 feels like the natural evolution of the classic rangefinder. While it's not as good for manual focusing as an M9, the image quality is much better, and the hybrid viewfinder makes macro shooting practical. I'd also take the still image quality of the X-Pro1 over the NEX-7 any day, even with the pre-release Pro1.
If I only had one camera, I'd probably take the NEX-7. But since I have a great video camera (the Panasonic AF100), I'd prefer the X-Pro1 as my still camera of choice."

The G3 by the way is really fast. Almost and in many cases as fast as my D700. It's a far better camera in terms of IQ than the E-P3. Way better. On Fuji they backed up the IQ claims with the X100. Nobody argues that that camera doesn't produce outstanding images. Olympus on the other hand (I've owned used Olympus MFT cameras) has always come up short. The Olympus cameras look better but the Panasonics are better cameras. Maybe the OM-D changes that?

02-23-2012, 05:07 AM   #17
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stanleyk, that was a vey good post.

I am sitting here debating a bit lately whether to retain the preorder on the E-M5. It looks like it pushes all the right buttons, and the weathersealing is a huge bonus. But, I am not a big fan of slow zooms and at this point it appears to be the only weathersealed option (with no primes announced that I know of), which to a large extent negates the whole weathersealing advantage. Then I read Kirk Tuck's G3 article, which did not help matters much. The G3 here can be had for around 4890SEK while the E-M5 will run 11990 SEK, so the price difference is rather massive. A G3 + the 25/1.4 and 45/1.8 would be a fantastic combo for my needs and cost about as much as the E-M5 with kit zoom.

But, while I have not tried the G3 yet, I have handled the G2 and it feels a little plasticky and unpleasant in my hands, so that also affects things. I really have to like the "feel" of a camera to enjoy using it, and I am concerned I would never quite like the G3.

Looks like I still have a couple of months until the E-M5 starts shipping here though, so plenty of time to ponder it.

There's also the NEX-7 of course, and I am in a position to buy one at a decent discount should I want one. But I don't see any lenses I like, and the roadmap for new lenses is still too uncertain.
02-23-2012, 05:50 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
stanleyk, that was a vey good post.

I am sitting here debating a bit lately whether to retain the preorder on the E-M5. It looks like it pushes all the right buttons, and the weathersealing is a huge bonus. But, I am not a big fan of slow zooms and at this point it appears to be the only weathersealed option (with no primes announced that I know of), which to a large extent negates the whole weathersealing advantage. Then I read Kirk Tuck's G3 article, which did not help matters much. The G3 here can be had for around 4890SEK while the E-M5 will run 11990 SEK, so the price difference is rather massive. A G3 + the 25/1.4 and 45/1.8 would be a fantastic combo for my needs and cost about as much as the E-M5 with kit zoom.

But, while I have not tried the G3 yet, I have handled the G2 and it feels a little plasticky and unpleasant in my hands, so that also affects things. I really have to like the "feel" of a camera to enjoy using it, and I am concerned I would never quite like the G3.

Looks like I still have a couple of months until the E-M5 starts shipping here though, so plenty of time to ponder it.

There's also the NEX-7 of course, and I am in a position to buy one at a decent discount should I want one. But I don't see any lenses I like, and the roadmap for new lenses is still too uncertain.
I convinced a friend to get the G3 and the 45/1.8. It's a really nice setup. Takes great photos. But you are right about the feel - it's less a camera and more a piece of consumer electronics. My brother's E-P3 and my K-5, on the other hand, feel great in the hand. Still, the G3 is very hard to beat for the price. If "feel" is really important to you, consider the GX1 - same sensor, metal body.

Me, I'm looking forward to seeing what the Panasonic GH3 brings...
02-23-2012, 06:18 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I convinced a friend to get the G3 and the 45/1.8. It's a really nice setup. Takes great photos. But you are right about the feel - it's less a camera and more a piece of consumer electronics. My brother's E-P3 and my K-5, on the other hand, feel great in the hand. Still, the G3 is very hard to beat for the price. If "feel" is really important to you, consider the GX1 - same sensor, metal body.

Me, I'm looking forward to seeing what the Panasonic GH3 brings...
I don't do video but the GH 2 is just about as good as it gets. I really like the E-P styling. I have an E-P2 and was set to upgrade to a 3 but they didn't change the sensor. After that I got the X100 and sort of got out of MFT. I got a G3 last summer second had really cheap. In everything but styling and JPEG it's a much better camera than the E-P.

If I was dedicated to MFT (and it's really a great format with the new lenses), I'd hold off on the OM-D. Panasonic is going to come out with higher spec'ed cameras with better build quality probably later this year. They always seem to be a good bit ahead of Olympus on sensors. If I really wanted the OM-D I'd get the G3. I think the IQ is going to be about the same.

I like the art filters on the Olympus cameras so I'm going to wait until the OM-D is release and pick up a used E-P3. People will be dumping them on Ebay so they can buy the OM-D. I like the use the Panasonic 20 and the VF-1 on the E-P's. Funny thing about that VF-1 is it works better for the 20mm than the Olympus 17mm.

02-23-2012, 07:02 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I convinced a friend to get the G3 and the 45/1.8. It's a really nice setup. Takes great photos. But you are right about the feel - it's less a camera and more a piece of consumer electronics. My brother's E-P3 and my K-5, on the other hand, feel great in the hand. Still, the G3 is very hard to beat for the price. If "feel" is really important to you, consider the GX1 - same sensor, metal body.

Me, I'm looking forward to seeing what the Panasonic GH3 brings...
The GX1 is nice but I am unwilling to give up a viewfinder of some sort, so once I add on an EVF to it the price gets up in OM-D ranges...

edit: Well, closer to. GX1 + VF-2 = 7600 SEK or so without lens, vs 9990 SEK for the OM-D sans lens. Versus today's price of 4790 SEK for G3 + 14-42...

Last edited by pingflood; 02-23-2012 at 07:09 AM.
02-23-2012, 07:13 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
The GX1 is nice but I am unwilling to give up a viewfinder of some sort, so once I add on an EVF to it the price gets up in OM-D ranges...

edit: Well, closer to. GX1 + VF-2 = 7600 SEK or so without lens, vs 9990 SEK for the OM-D sans lens. Versus today's price of 4790 SEK for G3 + 14-42...
Yup, I'd get the G3 before the GX1 because I'm cheap

But M43 cameras are being released at such a furious pace that you can get real deals for older generations. I got a GH1 for $299 and the GF2 for $379, and that included a $300 lens!
02-23-2012, 07:27 AM   #22
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Yeah, the GF1 + 14-42 is around 2990 SEK now, which I admit is very tempting at times, just to dip a foot into the 4/3 system and seeing if I like it. Could always sell it for 2000 or so later on.

02-23-2012, 07:45 AM   #23
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Sigma SD1-M. I probably won't get one, but I think Foveon output is fantastic. The SD1-M is the same as the SD1 with a much more reasonable price point.

If only they could improve the ISO performance a couple more stops...
02-23-2012, 09:03 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffshaddix Quote
Sigma SD1-M. I probably won't get one, but I think Foveon output is fantastic. The SD1-M is the same as the SD1 with a much more reasonable price point.

If only they could improve the ISO performance a couple more stops...
It's a much saner price point now, if they had released at this price originally i think it woul have done very well, now it will do ok but the competition is fiercer

I like the Idea of the DP2M same sensor in a DP2s body (which will be a steal price wise @ 699 or so - even if it's 899 still a fantastic street camera
02-23-2012, 06:08 PM   #25
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I'm still holding out hope the DP's are priced reasonably. Just have to wait and see. On MFT, I would definitely wait and see what Panasonic is coming up with before I pulled the trigger on the OM-D. See:

The Online Photographer: Panasonic Plans 'Very High Quality' Micro 4/3 Camera

More detail here especially on the lenses:

Panasonic plans high-end CSC to fend off Canon threat news - Amateur Photographer - news, camera reviews, lens reviews, camera equipment guides, photography courses, competitions, photography forums
02-23-2012, 06:18 PM   #26
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Don't have one...but I'd buy multiple copies of a basic, bare bones, affordable, reliable dslr or rangefinder style high mp FF that runs on AA battereis and takes Pentax lenses. For the rangefinder style, would be willing to buy a new lens system Pentax or not. And does not need to be true rangefinder, 'just in the style of' with a opt VF and dig screen combo....But bottom line...no AA batts...no deal....no way....NEVER!!!
02-24-2012, 05:26 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
now it will do ok but the competition is fiercer
Not sure if they will do okay...the initial pricing was such a HUGEEEE mistake..i has cooled down even the most enthusiast foveon fans..and now that huge price reduction can be inerpreted as cutting their losses wich places a question mark in future developments, and that makes anyone who doesn't bathes in money to doubt about buying a dslr system.
They have a huge PR work ahead building again the confidence eroded by the incident.
I really hope they make a nice margin of profits though...i'm curious at what the foveon sensor can do.
02-24-2012, 06:31 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Coeurdechene Quote
Not sure if they will do okay...the initial pricing was such a HUGEEEE mistake..i has cooled down even the most enthusiast foveon fans..and now that huge price reduction can be inerpreted as cutting their losses wich places a question mark in future developments, and that makes anyone who doesn't bathes in money to doubt about buying a dslr system.
They have a huge PR work ahead building again the confidence eroded by the incident.
I really hope they make a nice margin of profits though...i'm curious at what the foveon sensor can do.
That initial pricing was as stupid a move as i've ever seen. maybe if it was a FF foveon with even higher base MP (and way better build qulity) they could have pulled it off. but essentially they tried to sell a decent enthusiast camera as a top pro model. DUMB

For me though I'm interested in this sensor applied to the DP P&S line which has been announced but without pricing yet. a DP2 with this sensor would be a very appealing item. I could almost make that a daily shooter i think (but if it costs what an x100 does then it's a tough choice)
02-24-2012, 07:31 AM   #29
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Olympus OM-D/EM-5 or the Lumix GX1...
02-26-2012, 10:03 PM   #30
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X-Pro1

For me, it's the X-Pro1 as well. I love rangefinders, and Fuji is really trying to do good things with the rangefinder design.
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