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03-03-2012, 06:12 PM   #1
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$80 p&s compact thread

Sometime in mid-October/2011 my G10 broke -
all of a sudden it just would not take any pictures -
everything seemed to be working but no pictures.

So I lived without a compact for a few months
using my dSLR (Pentax K-x) for venues where normally I used flash.

I was reluctant to purchase the G12 -
because I felt that a replacement for the G12 was imminent
(turns out to be the recently announced G1 X)

Anyway just before Thanksgiving
whilst looking for temporary replacement for my broken G10 -
models like the A590i, A650 etc.....
I stumbled upon the Canon A1200 -
to me this was a revelation -
since most makers had given up on the optical viewfinder -
except for the real up market models (read expensive)

Here we had in the A1200 one of the cheapest p&s compacts - a real optical viewfinder!

A real optical viewfinder allows me to shoot with camera to face giving 3 points of support allowing slower than normal shutter speeds. It also allows me to see better for momentary changes of expression or pose etc. - LCD screen cannot keep up.

No, it was not love at first sight - I was dubious about its abilities - after all it is a p&s at <$90.

Obviously studied the specs and the few reviews out there - but at <$90 it was just too much to resist.

Yes, I am dropping from versatile automation with semi-auto settings on the G10 to an almost an all automatic p&s - and also the A1200 lacked any real image stabilization - but it did have a 28mm (equiv) wide angle zoom and its highISO seemed to be pretty good and the all critical optical viewfinder - so I bought one over Black Friday for just under $88 shipped.

First thing I noticed it was smaller and lighter than I expected -
Compared to the dSLR I was using -


Compared to the G10 -


Then I realized that it was about as small as the original 2Mp Digital ELPH S100 - vintage 2000


I used to use the 2Mp S100 Digital ELPH for all my digital photos
and managed to capture some worthwhile images
including one that was used on a CD cover:


Back to the A1200 - it is not that responsive, being a bit sluggish compared to most modern digicams -
despite Canon boasting of the Dig!c 4 processor -
but it is faster than the real early digicams !

I use pre-focus, hold, recompose, and wait to shoot -
and although the AF is no where near intolerable,
it is nevertheless a bit sluggish at times.

It took me a while to get used to an Auto-everything camera -
BUT the A1200 is not quite as inflexible as it may first appear -
like all auto-everything Canon p&s -
it has "P"rogram mode - that allows
ISO selection
more flash options (like slow-sync)
exposure compensation

These are not quite ideal - but more than adequate for me to be able to use, once I got used to camera.

Most of the time I set "P"-mode. and shoot slow-sync flash at ISO100, but -1 stop compensation.

For no-flash - on green Auto - (obviously) flash off - as that sets AutoISO and limits the lowest shutter speed to 1/8 sec - again not quite ideal - but that's a kind of safety measure as 1/8 sec is about the limit for most handheld shots - if I had my way I would have preferred 1/5sec - but now I'm quibbling over 2/3 stop.

For the occasional underexposed no-flash shot I switch back over to P mode and turn flash off and set AutoISO....

Some shots from the A1200
P-Mode, slow-sync flash, -1 stop comp



there is camera movement - evidenced by the streaking lights -
although IS may have helped -
I am not too sure as both are 1sec exposures!.......
it's the flash that froze the main subject - and the slow shutter speed that allows the ambient lighting -
so the shot does not look like the typical deer-in-headlights flash shot.

No flash -

P-mode; no flash; AutoISO (ISO800 set); f/2.8; 1/3sec; -1 stop compensation (elbows on table)

03-03-2012, 06:13 PM   #2
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$ bill test - full frame:


100% crop:


100% crop:
03-03-2012, 07:07 PM   #3
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For $88 I'd buy an Olympus Stylus and a Konica Big Mini.
And with the change I'd buy film for both, plus lunch...

Chris
03-03-2012, 07:31 PM   #4
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Coincidence. I am looking for a pair of cheap, 28mm or wider, AA battery powered Canon to use for outdoor timelapse where a lost camera will not break the bank. Just as I decided a couple used A1200s were close to perfect I realized there is no CHDK release for this one. Perplexed because both the newer and older versions all have CHDK ready to go. Bleh! But yes, it looks like a lot of bang for the buck.

For those not into such things, CHDK is the Canon Hack Development Kit for adding your own scripting.

03-03-2012, 11:43 PM   #5
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I mildly regret having passed on an similar A1200 deal, though there's nothing horridly wrong with my SD1000. Well, other than the lack of grip and the buttons being too small for use with gloves. Though I find I prefer to tuck it up my sleeve in the winter and I keep my hands warm putting them together and hiding them in my sleeves. Oh well, there's an A1300 with a viewfinder and a 16MP sensor and it goes 28-140 in 35mm eq field of view. Tells me that the budget p/s viewfinder isn't completely dead for another year or so.
I have another budget pocket cam, an Olympus FE-47 for $59. It has it's pros and cons, being 25% cheaper than an $80 camera is one. For now, I'm getting sick of this
100% crop

but on the other hand, it does wicked macros provided you can live with the way it processes details

and it has some rather bewildering instincts. I somehow got this without making any adjustments

I probably would have exposed similarly. It also has a weird part photo, part Monet aspect to it.

Part of me is tempted to try a GE A1255. Similar zoom range but has some motion panorama thing for when I want wider. Also, can be had for $40. Then again, another part of me says that I don't really need any more pocket cameras than I already have.
03-04-2012, 12:59 AM   #6
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Thanks for the comments so far -
some more shots from the A1200 -






Like any photo timing is important - the A1200 seems to have a longer shutter lag than I am used to (I use pre-focus recompose and wait to shoot)
Also with flash - because of only 2 AA batteries (normally an advantage) - the recycle can be slow - causing a full depress of the shutter button not to take the photo.
So a lot of this type of stuff for me can be a bit hit and miss.
03-04-2012, 01:54 AM   #7
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That wouldn't be the Northside Tavern by any chance would it?

Jason

03-04-2012, 09:22 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
That wouldn't be the Northside Tavern by any chance would it?
That most certainly would be.....
more from there -

HOWEVER before that:
My copy of the A1200 corrupts images - I see and even review them on the card - then all of a sudden they either disappear altogether or show as unrecognized images/files.

This has happened 4 times now on 3 different SD cards - including one that had seen service for over 4 years in Canon S80 then G10 without any problems - they have all passed multiple passes on 3 different SD card write/read tests.

It would seem pretty unlikely that all 3 cards are faulty.......

this problem may be hard to isolate -
since it seems to only occur intermittently with days/months
and hundreds (or perhaps even thousands) of shots in between

The 4 occurrences:
Dec/23/2011 ~ IMG_1695.jpg (37 images)
Feb/19/2012 ~ IMG_4058.jpg (9 images)
Feb/23/2012 ~ IMG_4297.JPG (1 image)
Feb/29/2012 ~ IMG_4658.JPG (37 images)

I have managed to recover most of the images using:
MjM Photo Recovery
PhotoRec
(surprisingly Recuva could not recover the files)

This makes my copy of the A1200 UNtrustworthy

I have contacted Canon and they have asked me to return it for examination.

Anyway in the meantime (even though there was a chance my A1200 might corrupt images)

this one has EXIF still attached.




a more extreme example of slow-sync flash and dragging the shutter.
03-04-2012, 09:32 AM   #9
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The best camera....like they say...is the one you have with you. Here in Texas that won't hold water on a bright sunny day unless it has an OVF. I can't understand how they think we don't need to see what we shoot? If all you have is the LCD you are SOL here, I guarantee.
So I do understand your message, and it makes perfect sense to me!
Regards!

BTW- Love that CD cover shot!
03-04-2012, 11:31 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
That most certainly would be.....

I thought so. Played on that stage several times once upon a life ago.

Jason
03-04-2012, 01:07 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
For $88 I'd buy an Olympus Stylus and a Konica Big Mini.
And with the change I'd buy film for both, plus lunch...
Funny that - for film cameras I was a real compact enthusiast using them often over my SLRs -
also preferring Olympus (I also loved the original fixed focal length Stylus, although I moved on to the more versatile Stylus Zoom and eventually to the Wide with 28mm)


and Konica I actively used in my last film days the Z-Up 135 and the fabulous Lexio 70 (also with 28mm)


those were the days when I had more cameras than arms and legs......

Anyway before the advent of zoom compacts
and even AF(!)
I had a Ricoh 500G rangefinder camera:

this was actually a winner at a small local camera club -
a friend entered a cast-off print (second best version) unbeknownst to me(!)

1995 - my favorite shot of the late great Huber Sumlin -
after he played my cheapo Squier Strat at the House of Blues Cambridge, MA
this had to be the Olympus Infinity Zoom (70)


1999 - pretty notorious shot in its day (used a lot for gig promos) -
prob Konica Z-Up 135 Super:




However getting change from $88 -
this might be true because of the low to giveaway cost of film cameras -
unfortunately film and processing still costs money -
and any savings would soon be eaten up (like lunch) in no time.

Anyway nostalgia aside back to the $88 p&s with optical viewfinder:
from Friday (still taking a chance that my A1200 may corrupt images on the SD card)




I have not managed to do shots like these on my dSLR the Pentax K-x

Last edited by UnknownVT; 03-05-2012 at 12:29 AM.
03-04-2012, 02:17 PM   #12
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You have brought some hope. I've been wishing for a P&S with a decent optical view finder - anyone for projected frame - a normal to WA lens, no zoom needed, reasonably fast, perhaps f2.8, fast response, and affordable. Bwahahahah! Sort of a budget Fuji FinePix X100. Right...

Last edited by grhazelton; 03-04-2012 at 02:17 PM. Reason: typo
03-04-2012, 02:33 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by grhazelton Quote
You have brought some hope. I've been wishing for a P&S with a decent optical view finder
I'm not "deal-spotting" but the A1200 can be had for as low as about $60 shipped brand new -
if one looks on fleaBay and willing to bid......(someone actually won one at $42)
otherwise the low shipped price now is about $78 from Amazon.

The newly announced Canon A1300 also has an optical viewfinder - due toward end of April -
but it is 16Mp on a tiny chip.....
03-04-2012, 05:36 PM   #14
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Texas, the only place on the planet you can't take photos unless you have an OVF !

QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
The best camera....like they say...is the one you have with you. Here in Texas that won't hold water on a bright sunny day unless it has an OVF. I can't understand how they think we don't need to see what we shoot? If all you have is the LCD you are SOL here, I guarantee.
So I do understand your message, and it makes perfect sense to me!
Regards!

BTW- Love that CD cover shot!
That is too funny. Only in Texas.

I guess all of the camera companies will now be required to place warning stickers on the billion cameras without OVF that say " Not for use in the state of Texas on sunny days".
03-04-2012, 11:32 PM   #15
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A1200 has 12Mp squeezed onto a tiny (1/2.3") sensor chip
so its HighISO performance is nothing to write home about.

However on Saturday I had to use it a lot without flash
which meant all at ISO800 (the AutoISO max).
I deliberately used "full" AUTO setting as that limits the minimum shutter speed to 1/8sec
and was very pleasantly surprised by my results (all have EXIF attached)





Last edited by UnknownVT; 03-05-2012 at 10:11 AM.
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