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05-14-2012, 06:39 PM   #106
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True, but the "individually process RAW files" is a weird myth. Sounds like a belief that every single RAW file (keepers and junk) need to be converted one by one into a JPEG or TIFF before being worked on? Maybe that's how the RAW software worked pre-Aperture/LR?

If I have a "keeper" that needs work though I spend a little time in PP, but if it's RAW I can process it more quickly because I don't get the JPEG artifacts that then have to be deailt with as well. I also get auto-exposure correction for RAW not for JPEGs which can be a quick starting point.

05-14-2012, 11:28 PM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
If you spend any time on the NEX Forums, you'll see there are quite a few converts who have ditched their DSLRs (including FF) exclusively for the NEX. Most people are more than satisfied with the output of the NEX as it gives up very little, if anything at all compared to most DSLRs. As stated in the review by dpreview...
Yes, actually i have spent quite a bit of time on Nex forums, reading way too many comments about the Nex5. I agree with your comment to the extent that i shouldn't have limited it to folks that wanted to "complement" their dslrs. I'm finally convinced however that the Nex5 doesn't meet my needs compared to a conventional dslr. Looks like a fun camera to carry around however.

Last edited by philbaum; 05-15-2012 at 12:16 AM.
05-15-2012, 08:07 AM   #108
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I bought the NEX (first the 5 and then the 5N) thinking it would be my street camera, however the more I used it the less I used my DSLRs. After a while it just takes over, and so I've sold one DSLR and most of its corresponding glass... I have one remaining DSLR (K-x) and a few lenses gathering dust. I supplemented the NEX with a Nikon V1 because of its ability focus at the speed of light and a few other reasons. These two cameras cover all my bases.
05-15-2012, 11:04 AM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
I bought the NEX (first the 5 and then the 5N) thinking it would be my street camera, however the more I used it the less I used my DSLRs. After a while it just takes over, and so I've sold one DSLR and most of its corresponding glass... I have one remaining DSLR (K-x) and a few lenses gathering dust. I supplemented the NEX with a Nikon V1 because of its ability focus at the speed of light and a few other reasons. These two cameras cover all my bases.
My main point that i was trying to make, is that we all are individuals with our own styles and interests. I love to see artists follow their passions and develop their skills. I go to galleries a lot now and look at not only the photographs, but also paintings and sculptures. I also volunteer my photography skills to a local performance art theatre.

Its pointless for artists to argue with each other as to which are the best tools to accomplish their art. "To each their own". Because the 5N may not be the perfect tool for me, doesn't mean that it isn't exactly what suits your purpose and interests. I'm not a good street shooter, but i do like to look at others street photography, the old masters and the current stuff. Thank God, (he or she) there are enough diverse cameras out there that we can all choose something to fit our interests.

So is street photography how you employ your 5n and the V1. Do you ever use your 5n on a tripod? not much or often? I use a tripod for any of my serious shots. Thats what i'm obviously getting at in discussing "different horses for different courses" I know the 5N has a tripod mount - but it looks pretty wimpy for my uses. Again its not a bad camera because it doesn't meet all my needs - quite the contrary.


Last edited by philbaum; 05-15-2012 at 11:12 AM.
05-15-2012, 11:50 AM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Do you ever use your 5n on a tripod?
Is it joke? If it is, then it's stupid one. What can prevent from using tripod? Being "look wimpy"?
In fact, it suffers from inability to change bracketing step, but this has nothing common with your claim.









Last edited by Emacs; 05-15-2012 at 11:55 AM.
05-15-2012, 12:03 PM   #111
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Captured using a NEX-5N (without a tripod):
05-15-2012, 02:49 PM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
Is it joke? If it is, then it's stupid one. What can prevent from using tripod? Being "look wimpy"?
In fact, it suffers from inability to change bracketing step, but this has nothing common with your claim.
What claim? i made no claim. I asked JHD if he had ever used his 5N on a tripod - i was looking for feedback - not a rude reply from you. I know some people in my camera club that never use a tripod. it was a fair question. I don't presume to tell other folks how to take pictures unless they ask.

The "wimpy" tripod connection comment came from a dpreview review which noted that the mfr had whittled material from around the threaded connection so that the camera looked smaller. As a result, it appears like the connection has a very small support area and "looks wimpy" to me. I hope that it feels much more secure than that. I know with my K5, i can leave it mounted on my tripod and carry the whole combination to a new location if i spot a better position. I'm a little leery of tripod connections, after my K10 developed cracks in the base from around the threaded connection.



Christine,
I have to laugh about the that point and shoot cam. on the tripod - whats the story behind it???


Last edited by philbaum; 05-15-2012 at 02:59 PM.
05-15-2012, 04:14 PM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
What claim? i made no claim. I asked JHD if he had ever used his 5N on a tripod - i was looking for feedback - not a rude reply from you. I know some people in my camera club that never use a tripod. it was a fair question. I don't presume to tell other folks how to take pictures unless they ask.
Hm, I was looking for the proper english word, I'm not a native speaker. So it looks like I failed
I meant your assumption about "looking wispy".
05-15-2012, 05:55 PM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
So is street photography how you employ your 5n and the V1. Do you ever use your 5n on a tripod? not much or often? I use a tripod for any of my serious shots. Thats what i'm obviously getting at in discussing "different horses for different courses" I know the 5N has a tripod mount - but it looks pretty wimpy for my uses.
I use my 5N for just about everything, but when there's action that requires super quick focus, tracking, or an utra high speed frame rate with fat buffer, it's the V1.

I've had no issues using a tripod with my NEX, but it's only been on a few occasions, mostly for macros.
05-15-2012, 06:31 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
Shooting RAW means less effort in post production than JPEG, not more, if you use Lightroom or Aperture.

Where does this "individually process RAW files" myth come from?
There is no less effort than just resizing usable jpgs straight from the camera.
Any RAW processing is at the very least going to involve a conversion to tiff/jpg, which will take significantly more time than a resize pass.

Perhaps I have different needs and thus a different workflow than most.

I shoot many pictures for "story blogs", so I may shoot 1000+ pictures at an event and use 75 of them as part of a narrative. These are all going to be web only, unless someone wants a print, in which case I will have shot RAW+JPG originally (I know by now when to shoot RAW as well), otherwise working from the JPG is OK 97% of the time. Actually 100% of the time because no one is ever as picky as me.

When I process RAW files I do them individually, because each one generally requires some specific color and tonal correction.

If I just batch processed them using a converter I'd end up with the same thing as the in-camera jpgs, actually many times not as good because Adobe/Apple don't necessarily have the same resources as the manufacturer and thus "best guesses" as to what the colors/tone should be. So to get what I get from the camera I'd have to use the manufacturer's supplied software, but what's the point? I end up with the same thing, perhaps with some more inherent headroom, but at a great cost of time that I don't have.

And with Sony's in-camera DRO and HDR even the headroom advantages of RAW are not as important as they used to be.

Perhaps you should evaluate why you are still wasting time shooting RAW when a proper in-camera JPG will give you 99+% of what the RAW file might deliver after hours of work.
05-16-2012, 03:24 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote

Christine,
I have to laugh about the that point and shoot cam. on the tripod - whats the story behind it???
That's a photo of Gretchen Chapelle setting up her iPhone for the Google+ Sydney photowalk. If you want to listen to her talk about it, watch Trey Ratcliff's variety hour #30.
05-17-2012, 06:31 PM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
What claim? i made no claim. I asked JHD if he had ever used his 5N on a tripod - i was looking for feedback - not a rude reply from you. I know some people in my camera club that never use a tripod. it was a fair question. I don't presume to tell other folks how to take pictures unless they ask.

The "wimpy" tripod connection comment came from a dpreview review which noted that the mfr had whittled material from around the threaded connection so that the camera looked smaller. As a result, it appears like the connection has a very small support area and "looks wimpy" to me. I hope that it feels much more secure than that. I know with my K5, i can leave it mounted on my tripod and carry the whole combination to a new location if i spot a better position. I'm a little leery of tripod connections, after my K10 developed cracks in the base from around the threaded connection.

Christine,
I have to laugh about the that point and shoot cam. on the tripod - whats the story behind it???
I can confirm while the base plate of the 5n is pretty slim, it does do the job, and the camera is easily the best tripod cam I have ever used. I have a benro c-058 and matched head (total weight 1kg), and with the NEX and kit (350g or so total), it works well. Picture attached for reference.
The only caveat in the manual is to avoid long length mounting screws.

That is using the kit lens, or an adapted wide to mid tele lens.

The beauty of taking the kit, and the 15/40/70 with me is that it all weighs very little, and I can use the same filter set (all 49mm diameter).
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Last edited by Clarkey; 05-17-2012 at 06:32 PM. Reason: easily the easiest, come on.
05-17-2012, 06:48 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by EVO Quote
Any RAW processing is at the very least going to involve a conversion to tiff/jpg, which will take significantly more time than a resize pass
Sorry but if you think that then you don't understand RAW processing. 95%+ of my RAW's never end up as JPEGs or TIFFs. RAW processing takes me less time than JPEG processing.

Oh well, whatever workflow works I guess, for my workflow processing JPEGs is slower than RAWs.
05-18-2012, 12:36 AM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
Sorry but if you think that then you don't understand RAW processing.
That was my guess as well. I even wanted to write this, but lazyness won
05-18-2012, 02:48 AM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
Sorry but if you think that then you don't understand RAW processing.
Rereading EVO's post, I think EVO was advocating batch converting Raw files to JPEG of TIFF using the manufacturer supplied raw converter (the Pentax branded Silkypix for example), and then further processng using Lightroom, Aperture, whatever. The hypothesis is that the manufacturer supplied converter is more accurate than Adobe Camera Raw/Lightroom for example.

It's an interesting hypothesis, except tests done a few years ago showed that Adobe Camera Raw is one of the best converters out there, and likely to be as good as if not better than manufacturer supplied ones (especially with camera and lens profiles applied). I seem to recall Silkypix in particular applies rather aggressive high frequency filtering, leading to softer images by default.

For me, I prefer to use Lightroom to process the Raw images directly, and it appears so do you and Emacs. Doesn't mean EVO is wrong, just operating under different assumptions.
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