[Biro]

I'm kind of torn here. On one hand, the RX100 looks like a great little camera for its class - pocketable, fixed-lens, point-and-shoot with PASM options for when one needs it. One the other hand, it's $650. For another $100 I could have a K-30 body. Plus, no viewfinder of any kind - yes, I know all about the form factor - so I will have to really see how the rear screen fares in bright daylight.

And finally, while it's not that much of an issue for me, I think pocket cameras must be all about connectivity in today's world in order to get most people interested. Otherwise, as others have pointed out, the smart phone is "good enough." I wish Sony well with this camera. But, given the price, I may wait to see if that sensor ends up elsewhere.

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Last edited by Biro; 06-12-2012 at 09:45 AM.

[Unsinkable II]

In 8 months it will be $350-400. Sony need sales.

[eddie1960]

In 8 months it will be $350-400. Sony need sales.

correction they need profitable sales. at most I see it at 549 down the road. if you compare it to the other competing products (x10, Canon G1x, et al) it is actually a good value. it's only when you drop m 4/3 or say a nex3/5 into the equation it doesn't look to be quite as good a value. then again thos are larger cameras.
and as much as you love it i don't think the nokia is direct competition. it's certainly an achievement on nokia's part but it is still a phone first, and that is how the general public will view it. Add in that any zoom is optical and it rapidly loses it's advantage (anything more than 2x zoom and it's resolution falls off in comparison to the Sony, add in the much larger sensor on the sony, and in general the high performance of the sony sensors it will be better on noise and high iso

[JHD]

...no viewfinder of any kind - yes, I know all about the form factor - so I will have to really see how the rear screen fares in bright daylight.

The LCD kicks ass!

You Tube

You Tube

...But, given the price, I may wait to see if that sensor ends up elsewhere.

It's only $50 more than the Fuji X-10 and it has a sensor is twice the size!
All this in a package half the size of the X-10 - without infamous X-10 orbs...

[Unsinkable II]

correction they need profitable sales. at most I see it at 549 down the road.

No, it will be $400 tops in 8 months. Please feel free to remind me then.

if you compare it to the other competing products (x10, Canon G1x, et al) it is actually a good value. it's only when you drop m 4/3 or say a nex3/5 into the equation it doesn't look to be quite as good a value. then again thos are larger cameras.

Hmmm, really? What about this Oly E-Pl1 at $269 including lens, with a far larger sensor?

Amazon.com: Olympus PEN E-PL1 12.3MP Live MOS Micro Four Thirds Interchangeable Lens Digital Camera with 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 Zuiko Digital Zoom Lens (Black): Camera & Photo

and as much as you love it i don't think the nokia is direct competition. it's certainly an achievement on nokia's part but it is still a phone first, and that is how the general public will view it.

It seems you prefer to be ambivalent about the 808. As someone interested in photography, and knowing the 808's potential virtues, I will encourage people to look at it as a camera first.

Add in that any zoom is optical and it rapidly loses it's advantage (anything more than 2x zoom and it's resolution falls off in comparison to the Sony

Did you read this thread in order to be informed? The constant F2.4 of the Nokia compensates.

add in the much larger sensor on the sony

Much larger?? Now you're demonstrating that you are misinformed. Please take a look at the sensor sizes.

and in general the high performance of the sony sensors it will be better on noise and high iso

Love them Sony sensors. All good. But, let's not forget that Toshiba, Zeiss and Nokia have been working closely on a 5 year project.

[Biro]

The LCD kicks ass! What is White Magic? - YouTube




It's only $50 more than the Fuji X-10 and it has a sensor is twice the size!
All this in a package half the size of the X-10 - without infamous X-10 orbs...

Well, that's certainly a reason to be optimistic about the RX100's rear LCD. I'm trying to keep an open mind. You have an excellent point about the Fuji X10. But why doesn't the Sony appeal to me as much? Poor Fuji... they may, in fact, have the orb problem fixed with the new sensors. But it may be just in time for no one to care.

[eddie1960]

No, it will be $400 tops in 8 months. Please feel free to remind me then.



Hmmm, really? What about this Oly E-Pl1 at $269 including lens, with a far larger sensor?

Amazon.com: Olympus PEN E-PL1 12.3MP Live MOS Micro Four Thirds Interchangeable Lens Digital Camera with 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 Zuiko Digital Zoom Lens (Black): Camera & Photo




It seems you prefer to be ambivalent about the 808. As someone interested in photography, and knowing the 808's potential virtues, I will encourage people to look at it as a camera first.




Did you read this thread in order to be informed? The constant F2.4 of the Nokia compensates.



Much larger?? Now you're just a twit.



Love them Sony sensors. All good. But, let's not forget that Toshiba, Zeiss and Nokia have been working closely on a 5 year project.

No matter how much you defend it as a camera It is still first and foremost a Nokia smartphjone with an operating system they are in the process of abandoning. I agree it's a bloody impressive camera for what it is and better than any other camera phone

as for how much bigger well it looks to be 20% bigger on the Sony. In most cases i would say 20% is a substantial difference, I may be a twiot in your eyes but I'm a twit that understands basic math. Sony is also optical for the zoom which means no loss of IQ through cropping. tell me how an f 2.4 lens compensates for a 4 x crop which leaves you with 10 mp effective on a smaller sensor versus 20 mp on the bigger sensor with no cropping involved? the physics please of how this works.



The fact that they worked on a project for 5 years BTW is neither here nor there. I never said it wasn't an impressive accomplishment, i just said they are not the same category. And whether you are interested in photography has no impact on the way the greater public will view it. In stores it will be sold in the mobile communications department not at the camera department. it won't be presented side by side with cameras but with iPhones and Androids. It's one winning point there is the camera. that will be what restrains it's sales.
the Sony OTOH will be sold side by side with it's camera competition where it will fair very well

As for the epl1 I said m4/3 had an advantage but size is not one. Also m4/3 sensor performance is not that spectacular in the scheme of things
compare the nikon with this sensor to the epl1. the nikon outperforms the Oly in DR and ties it in colour depth performance, the downfal being in high iso, but still beats it overall. Unfortunately dxo hasn't tested the nokia
the EPL price is more to do with it being a 2 year old camera that is at life end. look to the newer versions for a more accurate price comparison

As for the price in 8 months unless the camera tanks completely it will not drop by a third of it's price. it's just not how it works. Trust me. I spent 25 years selling this stuff and there is not the margin for that to happen. it may at life end blow out on black friday at that kind of price depending on how many Sony has to sell off

[Unsinkable II]

tell me how an f 2.4 lens compensates for a 4 x crop which leaves you with 10 mp effective on a smaller sensor versus 20 mp on the bigger sensor with no cropping involved? the physics please of how this works.

I've said it earlier on this thread, and have also suggested to you earlier that reading this thread might be of assistance... but anyways...

Here is how a F2.4 compensates for a 4X crop at the long end... The Sony is F4.9 at the long end. That allows 4 times LESS light to the sensor than the Nokia. So, with one going via swing and the other via roundabout, they end up pretty much at the same place (except that the Nokia is smaller, has a better OS, and is internet connected).

And the Sony will settle at $400 by Q2 2013. It's currently overpriced at retail vs its BOM cost. You've done 25 years at electronics retail, I've done 25 years at electronics manufacturing. I see the whole chain, you just see the final bit.

You're right that the Nokia will be sold as a phone and not a camera. But those who are aware of its abilities will buy it for camera use (and perhaps phone too, but I'll be using my Galaxy Note for that). As for Symbian, Nokia have stated that they'll support it until 2017. Seeing how fast people upgrade through their Canon S90 / S95 / S100 models, I don't foresee too many people in 2017 bemoaning lack of ongoing support for their 5 year old camera. By then, people will be looking back and recognising that the 808 was the pioneer of compact, connected, extremely competent a/v recorders.

[mysticcowboy]

I'm kind of torn here. On one hand, the RX100 looks like a great little camera for its class - pocketable, fixed-lens, point-and-shoot with PASM options for when one needs it. One the other hand, it's $650. For another $100 I could have a K-30 body. Plus, no viewfinder of any kind - yes, I know all about the form factor - so I will have to really see how the rear screen fares in bright daylight.

But can you put a K-30 in your pocket? I agree, that if I could only have one camera, I'd want the more capable one, and would go for the K-30 first. Comparing the RX-100 to the K-30 misses the point. It's awful nice to have a capable camera that's easy to carry for those many occasions when a DSLR is inappropriate.

[nosnoop]

I'd prefer the Sony for video, too, simply because of the IS. But we're not really comparing camcorders here...

For me and for many users, video capability is as important as still photography for any cameras I am going to buy.
"Camcorder" has already been deleted from my packing list for traveling, and maybe forever.

[Unsinkable II]

The 808 does seem to provide some electronic IS in video mode. I guess we'll find out how useful that is in the reviews. There'll be plenty of reviews coming out in the next week or two.

I can see myself getting a 808 or an RX100 based on comparisons. Certainly the S100 is no longer of much interest to me.

[JHD]

If and when the 808 comes to America/Canada, I heard it is expected to retail for a thousand dollars.

[eddie1960]

If and when the 808 comes to America/Canada, I heard it is expected to retail for a thousand dollars.

In Canada it will likely be a grey market product available in the Chinese malls (like Pacific Mall in Markham) within the month - at least in Toronto and Vancouver where there is an enormous Asian presence
And for a grand sorry i have a really long list of cameras I'd buy before that (some big some smaller - heck by September i could likely pick up a used k5 and a used x10 for not far off that)

[memo90061]

I use small point and shoot cameras for concerts, and have been wanting something small to sneak into concerts. This looks like the camera for me, but it's expensive. :/

[Jasvox]

Does it have a telephone function?

Jason