[frank]

Told you guys to stop there .... Oh well ...

[pinholecam]

Told you guys to stop there .... Oh well ...

Just pop some popcorn and sit down on the couch

[Digitalis]

As optically superb as the new Olympus 75m f1.8 is, it still focuses by wire, it does not have an aperture ring and it has no built in lens hood - As far as i'm concerned the only thing the Olympus 75mm f/1.8 kills is the rest of their lens line-up.

[Urkeldaedalus]

I guess I don't even understand the comparison, besides the similarities in f/stop and size.

I'll even agree with part of the post title, it's not surprising the 75 f/1.8 is a 77 f/1.8 killer when using M4/3 because:

• It's a lens designed 10 years later by a good team at Olympus
• It's actually designed to take advantage of the smaller sensor size, and designed digital for that matter
• It can autofocus

Along with the 12 f/2 it'd probably be one of the lenses I'd pick up to match with my current gear if I picked up an EM-5, which I'm still considering. I'm glad that Olympus has brought out what looks to be another awesome lens.

But the reason I find this comparison odd is why would anyone care who doesn't use M4/3? You can't shoot the 75 f/1.8 on Pentax APS-C or film or a full frame camera (either converted with an adapter or on an eventual Pentax FF body), so there really is no basis of comparison. You wouldn't throw the 75 f/1.8 on a full frame camera and be like "man this lens vignettes a ton, what a terrible lens!"

The reason the equivalent focal length debate is valid in this case is if I was going to buy the 12 f/2 from Olympus, I wouldn't compare it to all the 12 mm focal lengths out there for other large formats, I'd compare it to a 24 mm full-frame equivalent options out there and decide on the advantages of size and price versus depth of field control and maximum image quality.

So I think this is a valid discussion if you're a prospective owner like me who might want to justify adding a 75 f/1.8 to your lineup despite being able to put the 77 f/1.8 on the camera with an adapter -- in which cased I'd pick up the 75 f/1.8 mainly due to autofocus. So I'll agree with the poster's original title but add "A 77 mm killer...on M4/3"

[rparmar]

OK, I see I have stirred up a hornet's nest among those who aren't aware of a few basic facts.

1. I own an FA77 and consider it one of the best lenses ever made. I have said so many times -- it's no secret.

2. But Pentax has been standing still for too long, while Olympus/Panasonic is/are forging ahead on all cylinders. I am not so fossilised that I wouldn't wish to keep abreast of what other systems offer, especially as I now own three MFT bodies.

3. One can indeed compare these two lenses as equivalents by using them on an MFT body. You did notice this is the non-Pentax camera forum, right? Not so hard to figure out that I might be using a non-Pentax camera.

4. The subject line was meant to have a question mark at the end. I have no idea where this disappeared to. I am sure that "And now the FA77 killer?" would have stirred up less ire.

5. Great though the FA77 is, it is not perfect. AF is fairly crap (but blame the Pentax implementation, perhaps). Purple fringing enormous. So there is still room to look for something better.

I'm still with Otis......the idea that something has come along that has "Killed the 77Ltd", and I assume, buried it 6 ft under...is just plain absurd and ridiculous.

It's a turn of phrase. You might want to learn about these. Not all idioms are meant literally.

....what's the point of such a post?

The point of the post is to start debate. Given your usual inflammatory style, you must have some idea what that means.

[rparmar]

But the reason I find this comparison odd is why would anyone care who doesn't use M4/3? You can't shoot the 75 f/1.8 on Pentax APS-C or film

If you don't care there is no need to read or comment. But those of us who do shoot MFT and do have Pentax lenses for this purpose might care quite a bit.

Comments along the line of "I don't care so no-one else should" are annoyingly fascistic.

[rparmar]

As optically superb as the new Olympus 75m f1.8 is, it still focuses by wire, it does not have an aperture ring and it has no built in lens hood

Good points, really. I find something to agree with in all of them.

But the focus by wire is excellent on some of their other lenses. Important to remember that they all have focus-shift ability.

I think a lens hood should always be included. But if I was rich enough for the lens I guess another 80 bucks makes no nevermind. (Pentax now does the same.)

Though I like them, an aperture ring matters very little to most people. After all, the only bodies you can attach the lens to are completely automated (more accurately and more fully than any Pentax body).

As far as i'm concerned the only thing the Olympus 75mm f/1.8 kills is the rest of their lens line-up.

You'll have to explain that. How does it kill the 12mm, 20mm, 45mm, or other excellent prime lenses?

[Urkeldaedalus]

If you don't care there is no need to read or comment. But those of us who do shoot MFT and do have Pentax lenses for this purpose might care quite a bit.

Comments along the line of "I don't care so no-one else should" are annoyingly fascistic.

I didn't say I didn't care. I think you misread what I wrote. I was arguing that it's an unfair comparison because it's only a valid comparison if you compare them on M4/3 and in that case of course the M4/3 is probably going to come out on top due to the natural system advantages versus a lens that would have to be adapted over. I also said I'd probably buy the 75 f/1.8 as part of an EM-5 system even though I already do own a FA77 like you. Precisely because it is a high quality, quick AF, 150 mm equivalent.

But go ahead and take my words however you want. I am no fascist

[Rupert]

While you all were arguing, I thought I would slip off and buy me a FA77 real cheap, since they are "Dead". I figured a dead lens like the FA 77 would be dirt cheap! Went to every site on the internet I could find......apparently all the sellers have overlooked the Obituaries, because no one is giving them away, for sure. Maybe if they start stinking up their stockrooms, they will be offering to dump them cheap......you think?
Regards!

[Rupert]

The point of the post is to start debate. Given your usual inflammatory style, you must have some idea what that means.

Apparently, you know me!

Best Regards!

[Rondec]

OK, I see I have stirred up a hornet's nest among those who aren't aware of a few basic facts.

1. I own an FA77 and consider it one of the best lenses ever made. I have said so many times -- it's no secret.

2. But Pentax has been standing still for too long, while Olympus/Panasonic is/are forging ahead on all cylinders. I am not so fossilised that I wouldn't wish to keep abreast of what other systems offer, especially as I now own three MFT bodies.

3. One can indeed compare these two lenses as equivalents by using them on an MFT body. You did notice this is the non-Pentax camera forum, right? Not so hard to figure out that I might be using a non-Pentax camera.

4. The subject line was meant to have a question mark at the end. I have no idea where this disappeared to. I am sure that "And now the FA77 killer?" would have stirred up less ire.

5. Great though the FA77 is, it is not perfect. AF is fairly crap (but blame the Pentax implementation, perhaps). Purple fringing enormous. So there is still room to look for something better.



It's a turn of phrase. You might want to learn about these. Not all idioms are meant literally.



The point of the post is to start debate. Given your usual inflammatory style, you must have some idea what that means.

So, are you asking for an updated FA 77, so that you can mount it on your four thirds camera, or do you want Pentax to come out with a 135 mm f2.4 prime that will match the Olympus performance when mounted on an APS-C camera? I'm just not clear, because the comparison doesn't really make a whole lot of sense anyway you cut it...

[Urkeldaedalus]

Returning back to what, I think, was the original premise of this thread -- that 75 f/1.8 does look awesome indeed after looking at all your links Robin. It makes me wonder what Olympus is missing from its M4/3 lineup at this point? Just zooms I guess? It has the feel of a mature system to me, which is what appeals to me versus the NEX or Samsung NX, both of which aren't quite there yet.

[Digitalis]

Good points, really. I find something to agree with in all of them.

But the focus by wire is excellent on some of their other lenses. Important to remember that they all have focus-shift ability.

I loathe wire focusing, I grew up with a Leica M3 with proper helicoid focusing lenses and as far as i'm concerned that is how it should be. I tried an olympus E series camera a few years ago - and I despised how sloppy the mechanism felt. I admit to being somewhat prejudiced towards having tactile feedback and instantaneous response from the focusing mechanism - that is among the many things I will never sacrifice in the name of progress.

" Though I like them, an aperture ring matters very little to most people. After all, the only bodies you can attach the lens to are completely automated (more accurately and more fully than any Pentax body)."

Since neither of us has any hard numbers on whether that statement is accurate or not I maintain that pentax cameras are rather hard to fault - I have had Canon and Nikon cameras and lenses with aperture inaccuracies - so I have no issue whatsoever extending that Olympus cameras and lenses will likewise be as prone to errors. Perhaps the only cameras that are completely immune to this issue would have to be MILC cameras.

[rparmar]

I loathe wire focusing, I grew up with a Leica M3 with proper helicoid focusing lenses and as far as i'm concerned that is how it should be.

Again, I do not disagree. The focus-by-wire on some of the lenses (Pana 20mm, say) is sloppy. The best possible focus feeling comes from a manual Leica, Takumar, or Zeiss.

However, manual focus on many direct focus lenses is also rubbish. Essentially, any auto-focus lens will be a compromise in this regard. Of course with MFT you can get around this issue by using any Leica, Takumar, or Zeiss you want! You have the choice to use a manual focus lens or not. Once this compromise is accepted I don't think it's reasonable to keep bringing it up as a limitation.

Since neither of us has any hard numbers on whether that statement is accurate or not I maintain that pentax cameras are rather hard to fault - I have had Canon and Nikon cameras and lenses with aperture inaccuracies - so I have no issue whatsoever extending that Olympus cameras and lenses will likewise be as prone to errors. Perhaps the only cameras that are completely immune to this issue would have to be MILC cameras.

Well, Pentax has the crippled mount; this is not a matter of subjective opinion. Even with the green button, metering is all over the map with most if not all manual lenses. This has been well tested with empirical data. (Various threads on this very forum.) Whereas any lens on an MFT body meters perfectly. Lenses like my 50/1.2 work so much better on an Olympus body. This has been such a huge win for me that I cannot see buying another Pentax until they fix the problem.

[rparmar]

Returning back to what, I think, was the original premise of this thread -- that 75 f/1.8 does look awesome indeed after looking at all your links Robin. It makes me wonder what Olympus is missing from its M4/3 lineup at this point? Just zooms I guess? It has the feel of a mature system to me, which is what appeals to me versus the NEX or Samsung NX, both of which aren't quite there yet.

The upcoming Olympus M.Zuiko 60/2.8 Macro does true 1:1 and is weather-sealed to boot. The Panasonic 12-35/2.8 will be a workhorse zoom for those who like a constant aperture. If you want a wider range you can find a weather-sealed zoom at the cost of a stop.

With the addition of these, I don't think there are any significant gaps. It's taken them four years but they have put out a very well thought-out range of lenses. Optical quality is as good as anyone could possibly need in this sensor regime.

All that remains is for the white, red, and blue versions.