Maybe K-01 was not crazy?

ChopperCharles · 07-24-2012, 10:35 PM

You know, the more I look at the new K-01, the more I like it. It looks like a little rangefinder almost. However... really the only way they can get me to buy one is to build in an EVF. I don't mind losing the reflex mirror, but I do very much mind losing the viewfinder. Give me a EVF and I'll seriously consider a K-02(?) or whatever they call it, over the K-30.

Charles.

wjjstu · 07-25-2012, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim

Keep in mind that the K-01 is a full 35% smaller in body volume than the current Pentax DSLRs (and the disparity compared to my old K20D and Canon 20D is even greater).

That is highly misleading because it is not true at all. The only difference is the viewfinder hump and that does not account for 35% of the body volume. The K-01 is almost identical to the K-x and K-r were they to hack off the viewfinder. Even compared to the K-30 (K-5 in disguise) it's largely the same minus the viewfinder and slightly protruding hand grip.

ScooterMaxi Jim · 07-25-2012, 02:55 PM

Well, the hump is part of the volume, as is the grip. When it comes to stealth, humps attract attention while straight lines and width of a body do not (people complain a lot about the width of the K-01).
Humps also take up disproportionate space in a small, divided carry along bag - a waste of empty space.

Truth: K-30 - 895,310 mm3; K-01 - 559,004 mm3. That's a lot more than just the hump and grip inflating the dimensional difference. That said, I would love to have the better grip and WR on the K-30.
I would hate have 30%+ less battery capacity. Dumbing down video/audio on the K-30 is one thing, but lowering battery capacity substantially on a larger body is not at all smart.

Wasn't the topic viewfinders? The K-30 has a nice viewfinder.

wjjstu · 07-25-2012, 05:26 PM

You're using box dimensions? Don't make us laugh. There's a reason they all look bulky and alike in side-by-side photos. Don't mislead people.

ScooterMaxi Jim · 07-25-2012, 08:00 PM

Yes, we are talking about dimensions. That is how volume is measured. We live life in a real, physical world.

Yes, Stevie Wonder could tell the difference. And, on this forum the rest of us can see the difference.

Some of us even shoot the K-01 quite a bit, and are aware of how it compares in real life size, feel and appearance compared to the dSLRs we also shoot.

So, obviously with your strong understanding you have shot with it. Except you haven't looked at the differences. Don't squint. You might miss it.

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wjjstu · 07-25-2012, 10:54 PM

You're talking box volume. I'm talking real volume. As in actual space time occupied by atoms in the real physical world. The eyecup overhang and handgrip does not add 35% more volume.

By the way. Do the comparison with a body that doesn't have seals like the K-r.

RyanW · 07-26-2012, 12:32 AM

For the life of me, I've never understood why reviews started talking about volume. I guess because it can be another spec and what not. I don't think it's meaningful.

But if these review sites are going to do it, they should get the values from the manufacturers, or determine them themselves via water displacement, not drawing a frigging box around the dimensions and calling that volume.

I'm hoping next year we start measuring the volume of air a zoom lens will hold. That would be highly useful when buying a lens. Or how about the melting point of the body, the boiling point, flashpoint, conductivity. All would be just great to see on snapsort.

sjwaldron · 07-26-2012, 12:58 AM - **1 Like**

I use the K-5 and K-01 a lot, frequently together. The K-5 needs more space in the camera bag than the K-01. The K-5 usually is connected to a shoulder strap and I have the K-01 with a standard neck strap. For anyone who uses these camera they will see a functional and useful difference in size. I often have been taking the K-01 out by itself for the fun simple photo excursions because it is smaller and has better video control. I use the K-01 differently than the K-5 and they complement each other yet being completely interchangeable in lenses and batteries. My only gripe is the thing needs some firmware improvements as I've gone over before in past threads. I don't like the Marc-e-Marc design, but it's decent enough in practice that I can get the job done.

ScooterMaxi Jim · 07-26-2012, 08:26 AM

Particularly well said, sjwaldron. I would have just posted a +1, but my perspective is coming from the K20D (different battery, somewhat larger body). The physical differences are considerably greater (pretty sure that won't draw ire).

The K-01 may very well benefit mightily from the K-30 doing well, as the architecture for firmware updates will be nearly the same. Without the K-30, I'm not sure Pentax would even bother with firmware updates to the K-01.

junyo · 07-26-2012, 11:41 AM

It's awesome that you guys like it. That's it's cool to have a tool you enjoy.

However, in the broader prospective, as someone who wouldn't own one (I think it would've been a brilliant idea a couple of years ago, when I said it) the window for this camera with the broader public passed a while ago. And the broader public is what I need to be interested in Pentax. That's what Pentax mirrorless can do for me. Pentax shouldn't be making cameras exclusively for Pentaxians right now, they should be aggressively poaching users from other systems. I need more people demanding lenses and 3rd party accessories and retail channels. The K-01 doesn't do any of that, and that's my core issue.

allknowingeye · 07-26-2012, 12:23 PM - **1 Like**

Well I never expected such a flurry of replies on this thread I started. I have pretty much decided to buy the K-01. I already have a K-X and a large collection of Pentax lenses going back to 1980. I will be outfitting it with a Zacuto 3X Zfinder, a Rode Stereo Videomic Pro, and a good 8 Stop ND fader. Primary usage is video, with the option for stills when needed. Obviously the addons cost more than the K-01 but they will be reused when the next K-whatever comes out that warrants purchase. I would be of course be buying the K-30 had it a mic input, very annoying it doesn't - that is a poor design decision that will cost sales.

Some video I just released I did on the K-X that conviced me DSLR is the route to go:

You Tube

Laurentiu Cristofor · 07-26-2012, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by junyo

It's awesome that you guys like it. That's it's cool to have a tool you enjoy.

However, in the broader prospective, as someone who wouldn't own one (I think it would've been a brilliant idea a couple of years ago, when I said it) the window for this camera with the broader public passed a while ago.

The problem with the K-01 is not that it cannot take pictures or that it is too large, but that it is a legacy camera, not a modern design.

allknowingeye · 07-26-2012, 03:55 PM

Perhaps define what you mean by "but that it is a legacy camera".

selar · 07-26-2012, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by allknowingeye

Perhaps define what you mean by "but that it is a legacy camera".

It means its a device that satisfies a need that doesn't exist (anymore).

allknowingeye · 07-26-2012, 05:53 PM

I'm confused what is the need that doesn't exist anymore? What I need is a camera that mount all my Pentax lens, takes high quality video with manual control and external audio input. That's doesn't seem like a legacyt need to me.

07-25-2012, 02:55 PM	#63
ScooterMaxi Jim Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,520	If it was untrue it certainly would be misleading Well, the hump is part of the volume, as is the grip. When it comes to stealth, humps attract attention while straight lines and width of a body do not (people complain a lot about the width of the K-01). Humps also take up disproportionate space in a small, divided carry along bag - a waste of empty space. Truth: K-30 - 895,310 mm3; K-01 - 559,004 mm3. That's a lot more than just the hump and grip inflating the dimensional difference. That said, I would love to have the better grip and WR on the K-30. I would hate have 30%+ less battery capacity. Dumbing down video/audio on the K-30 is one thing, but lowering battery capacity substantially on a larger body is not at all smart. Wasn't the topic viewfinders? The K-30 has a nice viewfinder.

07-25-2012, 08:00 PM	#65
ScooterMaxi Jim Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,520	Yes, exactly the same Yes, we are talking about dimensions. That is how volume is measured. We live life in a real, physical world. Yes, Stevie Wonder could tell the difference. And, on this forum the rest of us can see the difference. Some of us even shoot the K-01 quite a bit, and are aware of how it compares in real life size, feel and appearance compared to the dSLRs we also shoot. So, obviously with your strong understanding you have shot with it. Except you haven't looked at the differences. Don't squint. You might miss it. [attach]135853/attach] Attached Images Last edited by ScooterMaxi Jim; 07-25-2012 at 08:49 PM. Reason: transposition of two words

07-25-2012, 10:54 PM	#66
wjjstu Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 181	You're talking box volume. I'm talking real volume. As in actual space time occupied by atoms in the real physical world. The eyecup overhang and handgrip does not add 35% more volume. By the way. Do the comparison with a body that doesn't have seals like the K-r. Last edited by wjjstu; 07-25-2012 at 11:02 PM.

07-26-2012, 12:58 AM - 1 Like	#68
sjwaldron Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,235	I use the K-5 and K-01 a lot, frequently together. The K-5 needs more space in the camera bag than the K-01. The K-5 usually is connected to a shoulder strap and I have the K-01 with a standard neck strap. For anyone who uses these camera they will see a functional and useful difference in size. I often have been taking the K-01 out by itself for the fun simple photo excursions because it is smaller and has better video control. I use the K-01 differently than the K-5 and they complement each other yet being completely interchangeable in lenses and batteries. My only gripe is the thing needs some firmware improvements as I've gone over before in past threads. I don't like the Marc-e-Marc design, but it's decent enough in practice that I can get the job done. Last edited by sjwaldron; 07-26-2012 at 08:00 AM.

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07-24-2012, 10:35 PM	#61
ChopperCharles Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Durham, nc Photos: Albums Posts: 953	You know, the more I look at the new K-01, the more I like it. It looks like a little rangefinder almost. However... really the only way they can get me to buy one is to build in an EVF. I don't mind losing the reflex mirror, but I do very much mind losing the viewfinder. Give me a EVF and I'll seriously consider a K-02(?) or whatever they call it, over the K-30. Charles.

07-25-2012, 12:50 PM	#62
wjjstu Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 181	Originally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim Keep in mind that the K-01 is a full 35% smaller in body volume than the current Pentax DSLRs (and the disparity compared to my old K20D and Canon 20D is even greater). That is highly misleading because it is not true at all. The only difference is the viewfinder hump and that does not account for 35% of the body volume. The K-01 is almost identical to the K-x and K-r were they to hack off the viewfinder. Even compared to the K-30 (K-5 in disguise) it's largely the same minus the viewfinder and slightly protruding hand grip.

07-25-2012, 05:26 PM	#64
wjjstu Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 181	You're using box dimensions? Don't make us laugh. There's a reason they all look bulky and alike in side-by-side photos. Don't mislead people.

07-26-2012, 12:32 AM	#67
RyanW Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 583	For the life of me, I've never understood why reviews started talking about volume. I guess because it can be another spec and what not. I don't think it's meaningful. But if these review sites are going to do it, they should get the values from the manufacturers, or determine them themselves via water displacement, not drawing a frigging box around the dimensions and calling that volume. I'm hoping next year we start measuring the volume of air a zoom lens will hold. That would be highly useful when buying a lens. Or how about the melting point of the body, the boiling point, flashpoint, conductivity. All would be just great to see on snapsort.

07-26-2012, 08:26 AM	#69
ScooterMaxi Jim Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,520	Particularly well said, sjwaldron. I would have just posted a +1, but my perspective is coming from the K20D (different battery, somewhat larger body). The physical differences are considerably greater (pretty sure that won't draw ire). The K-01 may very well benefit mightily from the K-30 doing well, as the architecture for firmware updates will be nearly the same. Without the K-30, I'm not sure Pentax would even bother with firmware updates to the K-01.

07-26-2012, 11:41 AM	#70
junyo Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 418	It's awesome that you guys like it. That's it's cool to have a tool you enjoy. However, in the broader prospective, as someone who wouldn't own one (I think it would've been a brilliant idea a couple of years ago, when I said it) the window for this camera with the broader public passed a while ago. And the broader public is what I need to be interested in Pentax. That's what Pentax mirrorless can do for me. Pentax shouldn't be making cameras exclusively for Pentaxians right now, they should be aggressively poaching users from other systems. I need more people demanding lenses and 3rd party accessories and retail channels. The K-01 doesn't do any of that, and that's my core issue.

07-26-2012, 03:45 PM	#72
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by junyo It's awesome that you guys like it. That's it's cool to have a tool you enjoy. However, in the broader prospective, as someone who wouldn't own one (I think it would've been a brilliant idea a couple of years ago, when I said it) the window for this camera with the broader public passed a while ago. The problem with the K-01 is not that it cannot take pictures or that it is too large, but that it is a legacy camera, not a modern design.

07-26-2012, 03:55 PM	#73
allknowingeye Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 36 Original Poster	Perhaps define what you mean by "but that it is a legacy camera".

07-26-2012, 05:42 PM	#74
selar Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,042	Originally posted by allknowingeye Perhaps define what you mean by "but that it is a legacy camera". It means its a device that satisfies a need that doesn't exist (anymore).

07-26-2012, 05:53 PM	#75
allknowingeye Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 36 Original Poster	I'm confused what is the need that doesn't exist anymore? What I need is a camera that mount all my Pentax lens, takes high quality video with manual control and external audio input. That's doesn't seem like a legacyt need to me.

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