[twitch]

Well I was waiting to see what Pentax would do at Photokina, but to be honest what was announced was even less than what I thought would be the worst case, I guess I must be an optimist.

I think the D600 is the camera for me then, the one I'd actually been waiting and hoping for Pentax to release. I've come to realise that it is not realistic to expect Pentax to do what I really hoped they would; simultaneously put out a FF camera, get it's AF up to spec wth more and smaller AF points, put out a fast FF sports zoom, and overhaul it's flash system, all without any miss steps. Nikon & Canon have built such a lead in these areas, and seemingly have much deeper pockets to continue pulling ahead.

So last week I created a spread sheet with my Pentax gear, what I paid for it new, and what I can get if I sell it. Let’s just say if I sold my Pentax gear I could buy new a D600, 16-35/4, 50/1.8, 85/1.8 and a 70-200 VRII. Not sure if that’s the kit I’ll go with as I’m not sure about those zooms, but clearly I way over spent on Pentax gear given the quality of this possible Nikon kit that is awaiting me.

[navcom]

How do you like the 24-85mm? I had considered getting it, but already have a couple lenses in that range.

So far it's great. No complaints here. It's every bit as good as my expectations were. I love my K-5 but I have to admit...the full frame seems to create more natural and less "mechanical" looking landscapes (my genre). My only issue I'm having is that I need to re-purchase all my accessories...shutter cable, timer, battery grip, polarizers (mine are too small for the 24mm wide angle), etc. And since it's a new camera, some of the stuff isn't available yet, including Lightroom and Photoshop support.

No problem. I knew this going in. It's why I've waited so long to purchase a non-Pentax. I have patience. I've waited over 3 years for FF thanks to Pentax rumors. I can wait a couple more months for the extras.

[Sol Invictus]

Well I was waiting to see what Pentax would do at Photokina, but to be honest what was announced was even less than what I thought would be the worst case, I guess I must be an optimist.

I think the D600 is the camera for me then, the one I'd actually been waiting and hoping for Pentax to release. I've come to realise that it is not realistic to expect Pentax to do what I really hoped they would; simultaneously put out a FF camera, get it's AF up to spec wth more and smaller AF points, put out a fast FF sports zoom, and overhaul it's flash system, all without any miss steps. Nikon & Canon have built such a lead in these areas, and seemingly have much deeper pockets to continue pulling ahead.

So last week I created a spread sheet with my Pentax gear, what I paid for it new, and what I can get if I sell it. Let’s just say if I sold my Pentax gear I could buy new a D600, 16-35/4, 50/1.8, 85/1.8 and a 70-200 VRII. Not sure if that’s the kit I’ll go with as I’m not sure about those zooms, but clearly I way over spent on Pentax gear given the quality of this possible Nikon kit that is awaiting me.

I think we have the same sentiments regarding Photokina. The announcements were well below the minimum I was expecting.

That's a pretty fantastic Nikon kit. I don't think I could get anywhere near that if I sold my kit but a D600 with a Sigma 50mm would a good start for me. I'm still 50-50 about switching as I really like the small Pentax cameras and the small DA Limiteds. They are perfect for travel and hiking.

I'm thinking I'll go the dual system route for now. A K5//K5IIs/K30 and my Limiteds with a WR zoom. I was hoping the 18-270 would be WR but they couldn't even swing that so I will wait for the ~16-85. And that's it for my Pentax kit. Every other photography dime will go to Nikon.

Another good thing about a Nikon FF kit is that it will retain its value fairly well. If somehow miraculously Pentax comes out with a world-beating FF, you shouldn't lose much money switching back.

[bossa]

So last week I created a spread sheet with my Pentax gear, what I paid for it new, and what I can get if I sell it. Let’s just say if I sold my Pentax gear I could buy new a D600, 16-35/4, 50/1.8, 85/1.8 and a 70-200 VRII. Not sure if that’s the kit I’ll go with as I’m not sure about those zooms, but clearly I way over spent on Pentax gear given the quality of this possible Nikon kit that is awaiting me.

I've had a spreadsheet of everything I want to sell sitting here for a couple of years now. I have so many recording studio bits and pieces to sell as well as my Pentax stuff. I know that if I sold it all I'd be able to finish my FF D800 system and would probably never worry about it all again.

Just tried a few focus comparisons shooting blossoms on a tree with my K-5 and FA77LTD against my D800E & 70-200 VRII. And the Nikon hit 100% whereas the K-5 was 7/20.

[DanWeso]

You might choose to consider, as an alternative to the Nikon 24-85, the Tamron 28-75/2.8, preferably the model without the built in motor. I was happy with the focus speed and IQ of the Tamron when I shot a D700. I have not cheecked in the last 6 months, but before they were going for about $300 or so used on fredmiranda forums. Plus, with the price difference, you would be half way to a 85/1.8G. (An outstanding lens.)

I picked up a Nikno 28-70 f/2.8 at a garage sale recently. I looked up on ebay and they go for $500-$800 (used AUD, I'm guessing it would be the same at most other countries) and the photozone review of it gave it some excellent scores.

Thanks. Those look to be two great alternatives. Might not be easily obtainable, but after spending the weekend reviewing lenses, I’ll wait on getting a zoom for now. The Tamron 24-70 2.8 VR also has gotten my interests, but has a big price tag. I probably should sell off some equipment first.

I did pull the trigger today and ordered the D600 with a 50mm 1.8 and should have it by end of the week. That should keep me busy for awhile.

[jsherman999]

So last week I created a spread sheet with my Pentax gear, what I paid for it new, and what I can get if I sell it. Let’s just say if I sold my Pentax gear I could buy new a D600, 16-35/4, 50/1.8, 85/1.8 and a 70-200 VRII. Not sure if that’s the kit I’ll go with as I’m not sure about those zooms, but clearly I way over spent on Pentax gear given the quality of this possible Nikon kit that is awaiting me.

Wow, that's quite a kit! That 70-200 2.8 VR II is a $2300 (USD) lens, and $2300 might buy a lot of other glass.. but it's hard to find a nicer telephoto zoom than that, anywhere, I guess.

Another thing to consider would be a used Sigma 100-300 f4 HSM for around $750 - $1000 (USD)


.

[einstrigger]

Well I was waiting to see what Pentax would do at Photokina, but to be honest what was announced was even less than what I thought would be the worst case, I guess I must be an optimist.

I think the D600 is the camera for me then, the one I'd actually been waiting and hoping for Pentax to release. I've come to realise that it is not realistic to expect Pentax to do what I really hoped they would; simultaneously put out a FF camera, get it's AF up to spec wth more and smaller AF points, put out a fast FF sports zoom, and overhaul it's flash system, all without any miss steps. Nikon & Canon have built such a lead in these areas, and seemingly have much deeper pockets to continue pulling ahead.

So last week I created a spread sheet with my Pentax gear, what I paid for it new, and what I can get if I sell it. Let’s just say if I sold my Pentax gear I could buy new a D600, 16-35/4, 50/1.8, 85/1.8 and a 70-200 VRII. Not sure if that’s the kit I’ll go with as I’m not sure about those zooms, but clearly I way over spent on Pentax gear given the quality of this possible Nikon kit that is awaiting me.

I think most Pentaxians are optimistic if not endlessly hopeful. Similar to you, I started and grew with Pentax, but there's so much out there being offered now that I want to explore where Pentax simply won't tread. Many on the forums here have been around much longer and continue to be hopeful. The digital full frame MZ-D was shown to the public back in September 2000 only to be canceled while Pentax's management kept "studying the market". That's 12 years now since Pentaxians have been dangled the full frame carrot year after year, relying on nothing but rumors to keep the "hope" alive. While I'm sure good things will come from the new management under Ricoh, I personally did not want to wait anymore.

In regards to spread sheets, I think we've all done that at one time or another, if not to at least keep track of current inventory. I wanted to give the D600 at least a 25 day trial before I sold my Pentax kit, just to be sure it works for me. So far, it's a resounding yes and my collection of Pentax lenses will probably be for sale sooner rather than later.

Additionally, I think the monetary pain of switching is exaggerated, especially when you factor in the used marketplace for Nikon gear. Since the user base is huge, there's a ton of low mileage stuff out there. I paid $325 for a Nikon 35mm 1.8G AND a 50mm 1.4D, here on the Pentaxforums of all places too. I don't mind those older "D" lenses with their noisy AF and aperture ring. If anything they'll still be useful when I end up with a mirrorless setup Anyhow, there's a ton of stuff out there in other forums and the local craigslist. If you're interested in new lenses, just wait until they do their rebates. The 14-24, 24-70, and 70-200 are usually offered with anywhere between $300 to $400 off when purchased with a new body, plus you get 5 years of warranty coverage.

[pz1fan]

Additionally, I think the monetary pain of switching is exaggerated, especially when you factor in the used marketplace for Nikon gear. Since the user base is huge, there's a ton of low mileage stuff out there. I paid $325 for a Nikon 35mm 1.8G AND a 50mm 1.4D, here on the Pentaxforums of all places too. I don't mind those older "D" lenses with their noisy AF and aperture ring. If anything they'll still be useful when I end up with a mirrorless setup Anyhow, there's a ton of stuff out there in other forums and the local craigslist. If you're interested in new lenses, just wait until they do their rebates. The 14-24, 24-70, and 70-200 are usually offered with anywhere between $300 to $400 off when purchased with a new body, plus you get 5 years of warranty coverage.

It's also the hassle of selling everything that stops people from switching. And genuinely liking the Pentax system.

I said it in another thread, but the Nikon 200mm macro looks like quite the bargain compared to used FA*200mm macro prices.

[twitch]

One thing I forgot to comment on the D600 was that I got to have a play with it and the D800 side by side in store. The shutter sound of the D600 in both single shot and quiet mode was significantly quieter than the D800 which seemed pretty loud to me, even louder than my K-x. The D600 also was smaller than the D800 by enough to matter IMHO.

Another thing to consider would be a used Sigma 100-300 f4 HSM for around $750 - $1000 (USD)
.

Thanks for the idea, it's great to have that option, I'm also considering an older version of the Nikon lens or the 180/2.8 prime.

Just tried a few focus comparisons shooting blossoms on a tree with my K-5 and FA77LTD against my D800E & 70-200 VRII. And the Nikon hit 100% whereas the K-5 was 7/20.

The 77 is beautiful but I agree the hit rate with AF could be a lot better. I think the K5 is most of the problem.

So far, it's a resounding yes and my collection of Pentax lenses will probably be for sale sooner rather than later.

Glad to hear it's working out, and it seems there's still a good market for nice Pentax lenses. I've had no trouble selling my lenses so far

[bossa]

So maybe the new K-5 with the f2.8 AF system would handle a faster lens like the FA77 better. Too bad I won't be buying one.. lol (Hopefully not FLW on my part)

[twitch]

I really enjoy this photographers blog, terrific photos to go with very good reviews, and he's just posted his D600 review.

The Nikon D600 review: full frame for the masses? ? Ming Thein | Photographer

The D600 didn’t receive anywhere near the same fanfare or hype as the D800/ D800E at introduction; perhaps it was the long rumour train, or perhaps it was the fairly conservative spec sheet. However, I think this is going to be one of those cameras that enjoys a long burn in much the same way as the D70 and D700 did – it brought a decent feature set with a sizeable leap in image quality at a new low price point. The D600 body retails at US$2,100 or thereabouts. In that respect, I feel in the long term it will do for full frame what the D70 did for DSLRs in general: it made it accessible. It’s more than enough camera for the average user, yet not so much that getting the most out of it becomes a challenge, like the D800/ D800E. The D600 is full frame for the masses; if you’re not a pro but you’re itching for an upgrade from your D700 or D7000, this is probably what you’ve been waiting for.

[jsherman999]

I really enjoy this photographers blog, terrific photos to go with very good reviews, and he's just posted his D600 review.

The Nikon D600 review: full frame for the masses? ? Ming Thein | Photographer

Ming writes very well, but his reviews are misleading in one significant way: he's prone to fixating on 'pixel level sharpness' and noise, and falls into the 'lower MP = more forgiving' trap - which really simply means you notice things like focus errors more when zooming in to the image at 100% on a higher-res sensor.

He doesn't really emphasize that the detail that focus errors blur are not even there in the first place on the lower-res sensor.

His crop comparisons do not show the same AOV - which automatically puts any higher-res sensor at a disadvantage, because the higher res sensor shows a more 'zoomed in' view, and this looks noisier than it would if that crop had been downsampled to match the lower-res shot. This is misleading, and only important if you want to see things at 'pixel-level' - and I'm not sure why you'd ever really care about that unless you were comparing lenses, not sensor performance. (this is why DxO normalizes on an 8MP comparison in their sensor measurements and rankings - because they realize this.)


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[twitch]

His crop comparisons do not show the same AOV - which automatically puts any higher-res sensor at a disadvantage, because the higher res sensor shows a more 'zoomed in' view, and this looks noisier than it would if that crop had been downsampled to match the lower-res shot. This is misleading, and only important if you want to see things at 'pixel-level' - and I'm not sure why you'd ever really care about that unless you were comparing lenses, not sensor performance. (this is why DxO normalizes on an 8MP comparison in their sensor measurements and rankings - because they realize this.)


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Good point. I automatically skip ISO comparo shot sections in all reviews (steve huff does this too) as DXO is the only reliable source for ISO performance.

Nice photos though

[bossa]

I just got back from town where two guys in my Fav' camera store tried hard to sell me a D600 as a 2nd body (AUD2599) but I'm set on another D800E. Oh, and I looked at a 400/2.8 VR. Very light and could be hand held, but HUGE! (I meant F&#$%^G HUGE!) And the Price? Used for AUD6800. I'm about 7k short for that one and it's not exactly the kind of thing you can walk around on the quiet with anyway, unlike my FA*300 on my K-5.

[sb in ak]

I was considering consolidating my Canon and Pentax stuff into a D600 but after this weekend's hiking trip in the rain, it was really nice to be able to grab the K5 and not worry about it. This was after I almost fried my 5DII after slipping on mud and quasi falling into a lake that sprayed all of my equipment. I am back in love with the K5 . Now I'm trying to figure out my next WR lens...