New Zeiss E mount lenses for NEX

Emacs · 09-20-2012, 02:31 AM

Originally posted by snake

I hope they have a deal with Sony to use the PDAF.

All this "PDAF" desire … it's kind of ridiculous.
It's just like the people of XIX century wanted faster horses. On sensor PDAF is likely not able to resolve low light focusing problem

Back to the topic: seems like this is the Distagon 12/2.8.
Well, I'm not impressed at all. It's direct Super Elmar 18/3.8 or Distagon 18/4 ZM equivalent for APS-C. You see it's larger than both. The worst thing actually is these lenses are designing for both Fuji/NEX in mind. This means the design is limited by silly fuji and NEX-7 sensors with their smearing and color shifting problems. It's dully to solve PURE SENSOR PROBLEM via the lens.
Leica seems to understand this and they found the good way with their new CMOSIS made sensor. And It's highly unlikely Sony is able even to realize the sensor problems should be solved at the sensor level, not to mention they are able to produce proper one (sensor electronics is one thing, Sony is good there but the precise super thin color filters, special microlenses are another, and it seems Sony cannot do that).

Jasvox · 09-20-2012, 03:55 AM

Originally posted by Christine Tham

That, and they are probably also trying to keep the prices down to make them more affordable. Wide angle FF primes are expensive, for example Zeiss Distagon 15mm f2.8 is around US$4600.
Zeiss 15mm f/2.8 ZM Lens - Black 1457-856 B&H Photo Video

And size too...to cover a FF sensor, the lenses would certainly have to be bigger.

Jason

Jasvox · 09-20-2012, 03:59 AM

Originally posted by Emacs

. This means the design is limited by silly fuji and NEX-7 sensors with their smearing and color shifting problems. It's dully to solve PURE SENSOR PROBLEM via the lens.
Leica seems to understand this and they found the good way with their new CMOSIS made sensor. And It's highly unlikely Sony is able even to realize the sensor problems should be solved at the sensor level, not to mention they are able to produce proper one (sensor electronics is one thing, Sony is good there but the precise super thin color filters, special microlenses are another, and it seems Sony cannot do that).

I am sure it woud work just fine on the NEX 5N/R and 6?

Jason

Big G · 09-20-2012, 04:53 AM

Originally posted by Emacs

This means the design is limited by silly fuji and NEX-7 sensors with their smearing and color shifting problems. It's dully to solve PURE SENSOR PROBLEM via the lens.

What are you talking about "smearing and color shifting"? Do you own a NEX-7 and can provide examples of this? Or are you refer to the use of legacy glass not designed for digital on the NEX-7 which exhibits magenta corners?

jogiba · 09-20-2012, 05:17 AM

With the new NEX-VG900 you could use any E mount or A mount lens in either APS-C mode or FF mode . With low cost adapters you could use any APS-C or FF lens out there. It could also use the new Zeiss E mount Cine lenses in APS-C or FF mode.

snake · 09-20-2012, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by Emacs

All this "PDAF" desire … it's kind of ridiculous.
It's just like the people of XIX century wanted faster horses. On sensor PDAF is likely not able to resolve low light focusing problem

Back to the topic: seems like this is the Distagon 12/2.8.
Well, I'm not impressed at all. It's direct Super Elmar 18/3.8 or Distagon 18/4 ZM equivalent for APS-C. You see it's larger than both. The worst thing actually is these lenses are designing for both Fuji/NEX in mind. This means the design is limited by silly fuji and NEX-7 sensors with their smearing and color shifting problems. It's dully to solve PURE SENSOR PROBLEM via the lens.
Leica seems to understand this and they found the good way with their new CMOSIS made sensor. And It's highly unlikely Sony is able even to realize the sensor problems should be solved at the sensor level, not to mention they are able to produce proper one (sensor electronics is one thing, Sony is good there but the precise super thin color filters, special microlenses are another, and it seems Sony cannot do that).

If the new system offers faster AF, that's all I care about. Whether CD or PD (it appears that people are forgetting that there is some sort of hyrbidization), I don't care, so long as it works even better.

Don't know what any of the other stuff you're saying means.

Emacs · 09-20-2012, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by Jasvox

I am sure it woud work just fine on the NEX 5N/R and 6?

You think 5N/R or 6 work great with old glass? They are far from perfect.

Originally posted by Big G

What are you talking about "smearing and color shifting"? Do you own a NEX-7 and can provide examples of this? Or are you refer to the use of legacy glass not designed for digital on the NEX-7 which exhibits magenta corners?

Have you ever tried to think? If sensor won't have these smearing and color shift problems, the Sony 16/2.8 pancake could be a stellar lens. So, instead of improving sensor tech and then creating cheap, simple but of high optical quality lenses they decided to make cheap bodies with crap lenses? OK, then I won't buy anything from them: I don't need crap lenses neither crap bodies (these are all m43, all nexes, all samsungs, all fujies — all mirrorless). They didn't utilize EVFs properly. How can select certain focus point quick? How can I magnify an area I want to have a good look quick? Touchscreen solves it (oh, well, most mirrorless don't have touchscreen), but with EVF? I want to utilize new great possibilities given by EVFs, this must be simple.

Jasvox · 09-20-2012, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by Emacs

You think 5N/R or 6 work great with old glass? They are far from perfect.

I didn't say they were "perfect". Show me a body which is "perfect". At least anywhere near the price of the 5N.

Jason

Emacs · 09-20-2012, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by Jasvox

At least anywhere near the price of the 5N.

For example ricoh gxr with M-mount module

Christine Tham · 09-21-2012, 02:30 AM

I'm pretty happy with my 5N and F3 on the SEL1628 with the fish eye and ultra wide converters - refer to my recent photos in the NEX thread. Maybe my eyes are so bad I can't detect the issues anymore.

Also never had any issues with wide angle M mount - on my CV 15mm or on a range of Leica wide angles I tried at a shop.

Based on that I am pretty happy to buy the NEX-6.

But I am really hoping Sony will release the FF NEX soon, because that is what I want. If it's no good, I will then probably buy the M.

Jasvox · 09-21-2012, 03:31 AM

Originally posted by Emacs

For example ricoh gxr with M-mount module

Is spending around $1000 for the GXR and M mount module to get roughly or the same results as a 5N at half that price is wise? To each his own, I suppose.

Jason

Big G · 09-22-2012, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by Emacs

Have you ever tried to think? If sensor won't have these smearing and color shift problems, the Sony 16/2.8 pancake could be a stellar lens. So, instead of improving sensor tech and then creating cheap, simple but of high optical quality lenses they decided to make cheap bodies with crap lenses? OK, then I won't buy anything from them: I don't need crap lenses neither crap bodies (these are all m43, all nexes, all samsungs, all fujies — all mirrorless). They didn't utilize EVFs properly. How can select certain focus point quick? How can I magnify an area I want to have a good look quick? Touchscreen solves it (oh, well, most mirrorless don't have touchscreen), but with EVF? I want to utilize new great possibilities given by EVFs, this must be simple.

Nope, the Sony 16mm f/2.8 is just a rubbish lens.

The Sigma EX 19mm f/2.8 and Sigma EX 35mm f/2.8 are very good indeed on the NEX-7 and very inexpensive as well. I would expect Sony equivalents to follow soon.

09-20-2012, 05:17 AM	#20
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	With the new NEX-VG900 you could use any E mount or A mount lens in either APS-C mode or FF mode . With low cost adapters you could use any APS-C or FF lens out there. It could also use the new Zeiss E mount Cine lenses in APS-C or FF mode. Last edited by jogiba; 09-20-2012 at 05:25 AM.

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09-20-2012, 02:31 AM	#16
Emacs Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Moscow Posts: 1,223	Originally posted by snake I hope they have a deal with Sony to use the PDAF. All this "PDAF" desire … it's kind of ridiculous. It's just like the people of XIX century wanted faster horses. On sensor PDAF is likely not able to resolve low light focusing problem Back to the topic: seems like this is the Distagon 12/2.8. Well, I'm not impressed at all. It's direct Super Elmar 18/3.8 or Distagon 18/4 ZM equivalent for APS-C. You see it's larger than both. The worst thing actually is these lenses are designing for both Fuji/NEX in mind. This means the design is limited by silly fuji and NEX-7 sensors with their smearing and color shifting problems. It's dully to solve PURE SENSOR PROBLEM via the lens. Leica seems to understand this and they found the good way with their new CMOSIS made sensor. And It's highly unlikely Sony is able even to realize the sensor problems should be solved at the sensor level, not to mention they are able to produce proper one (sensor electronics is one thing, Sony is good there but the precise super thin color filters, special microlenses are another, and it seems Sony cannot do that).

09-20-2012, 03:55 AM	#17
Jasvox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,107 Original Poster	Originally posted by Christine Tham That, and they are probably also trying to keep the prices down to make them more affordable. Wide angle FF primes are expensive, for example Zeiss Distagon 15mm f2.8 is around US$4600. Zeiss 15mm f/2.8 ZM Lens - Black 1457-856 B&H Photo Video And size too...to cover a FF sensor, the lenses would certainly have to be bigger. Jason

09-20-2012, 03:59 AM	#18
Jasvox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,107 Original Poster	Originally posted by Emacs . This means the design is limited by silly fuji and NEX-7 sensors with their smearing and color shifting problems. It's dully to solve PURE SENSOR PROBLEM via the lens. Leica seems to understand this and they found the good way with their new CMOSIS made sensor. And It's highly unlikely Sony is able even to realize the sensor problems should be solved at the sensor level, not to mention they are able to produce proper one (sensor electronics is one thing, Sony is good there but the precise super thin color filters, special microlenses are another, and it seems Sony cannot do that). I am sure it woud work just fine on the NEX 5N/R and 6? Jason

09-20-2012, 04:53 AM	#19
Big G Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 581	Originally posted by Emacs This means the design is limited by silly fuji and NEX-7 sensors with their smearing and color shifting problems. It's dully to solve PURE SENSOR PROBLEM via the lens. What are you talking about "smearing and color shifting"? Do you own a NEX-7 and can provide examples of this? Or are you refer to the use of legacy glass not designed for digital on the NEX-7 which exhibits magenta corners?

09-20-2012, 09:55 AM	#21
snake Banned Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: NY/Germany Posts: 1,183	Originally posted by Emacs All this "PDAF" desire … it's kind of ridiculous. It's just like the people of XIX century wanted faster horses. On sensor PDAF is likely not able to resolve low light focusing problem Back to the topic: seems like this is the Distagon 12/2.8. Well, I'm not impressed at all. It's direct Super Elmar 18/3.8 or Distagon 18/4 ZM equivalent for APS-C. You see it's larger than both. The worst thing actually is these lenses are designing for both Fuji/NEX in mind. This means the design is limited by silly fuji and NEX-7 sensors with their smearing and color shifting problems. It's dully to solve PURE SENSOR PROBLEM via the lens. Leica seems to understand this and they found the good way with their new CMOSIS made sensor. And It's highly unlikely Sony is able even to realize the sensor problems should be solved at the sensor level, not to mention they are able to produce proper one (sensor electronics is one thing, Sony is good there but the precise super thin color filters, special microlenses are another, and it seems Sony cannot do that). If the new system offers faster AF, that's all I care about. Whether CD or PD (it appears that people are forgetting that there is some sort of hyrbidization), I don't care, so long as it works even better. Don't know what any of the other stuff you're saying means.

09-20-2012, 10:01 AM	#22
Emacs Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Moscow Posts: 1,223	Originally posted by Jasvox I am sure it woud work just fine on the NEX 5N/R and 6? You think 5N/R or 6 work great with old glass? They are far from perfect. Originally posted by Big G What are you talking about "smearing and color shifting"? Do you own a NEX-7 and can provide examples of this? Or are you refer to the use of legacy glass not designed for digital on the NEX-7 which exhibits magenta corners? Have you ever tried to think? If sensor won't have these smearing and color shift problems, the Sony 16/2.8 pancake could be a stellar lens. So, instead of improving sensor tech and then creating cheap, simple but of high optical quality lenses they decided to make cheap bodies with crap lenses? OK, then I won't buy anything from them: I don't need crap lenses neither crap bodies (these are all m43, all nexes, all samsungs, all fujies — all mirrorless). They didn't utilize EVFs properly. How can select certain focus point quick? How can I magnify an area I want to have a good look quick? Touchscreen solves it (oh, well, most mirrorless don't have touchscreen), but with EVF? I want to utilize new great possibilities given by EVFs, this must be simple.

09-20-2012, 10:07 AM	#23
Jasvox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,107 Original Poster	Originally posted by Emacs You think 5N/R or 6 work great with old glass? They are far from perfect. I didn't say they were "perfect". Show me a body which is "perfect". At least anywhere near the price of the 5N. Jason

09-20-2012, 11:45 PM	#24
Emacs Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Moscow Posts: 1,223	Originally posted by Jasvox At least anywhere near the price of the 5N. For example ricoh gxr with M-mount module

09-21-2012, 02:30 AM	#25
Christine Tham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,269	I'm pretty happy with my 5N and F3 on the SEL1628 with the fish eye and ultra wide converters - refer to my recent photos in the NEX thread. Maybe my eyes are so bad I can't detect the issues anymore. Also never had any issues with wide angle M mount - on my CV 15mm or on a range of Leica wide angles I tried at a shop. Based on that I am pretty happy to buy the NEX-6. But I am really hoping Sony will release the FF NEX soon, because that is what I want. If it's no good, I will then probably buy the M.

09-21-2012, 03:31 AM	#26
Jasvox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,107 Original Poster	Originally posted by Emacs For example ricoh gxr with M-mount module Is spending around $1000 for the GXR and M mount module to get roughly or the same results as a 5N at half that price is wise? To each his own, I suppose. Jason

09-22-2012, 12:51 PM	#27
Big G Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 581	Originally posted by Emacs Have you ever tried to think? If sensor won't have these smearing and color shift problems, the Sony 16/2.8 pancake could be a stellar lens. So, instead of improving sensor tech and then creating cheap, simple but of high optical quality lenses they decided to make cheap bodies with crap lenses? OK, then I won't buy anything from them: I don't need crap lenses neither crap bodies (these are all m43, all nexes, all samsungs, all fujies — all mirrorless). They didn't utilize EVFs properly. How can select certain focus point quick? How can I magnify an area I want to have a good look quick? Touchscreen solves it (oh, well, most mirrorless don't have touchscreen), but with EVF? I want to utilize new great possibilities given by EVFs, this must be simple. Nope, the Sony 16mm f/2.8 is just a rubbish lens. The Sigma EX 19mm f/2.8 and Sigma EX 35mm f/2.8 are very good indeed on the NEX-7 and very inexpensive as well. I would expect Sony equivalents to follow soon.