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10-02-2012, 10:02 AM   #76
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I see; definitely from an IQ performance value proposition the Pentax Kx is one of the best out there ...that's why I bought one a few years ago

The Kx is a very good camera, but it is an entry level camera and as such does not have some of features included in more advanced cameras such as the K5 and OM-D EM-5. That's why, IMHO the price comparison between K5 and OM-D is more appropriate.




QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Well, I think the point was that the kx sensor is similar in performance to the OM-D sensor, while the K5 sensor is a step in front. In addition, if you call B and H you can still get the 16-50 for 950 new (sure, you shouldn't have to, but at least it's a back door way of getting the lens for less than the MAP on line). It is available on line from Amazon for 1050, if you don't want to bother making a call. Just saying...


10-02-2012, 10:38 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Check the ISO sensitivity graph for the E-M5 at DXOMark. Olympus cheats the ISO rating by an entire stop.
  • When set to ISO 200, the actual iSO is 107
  • When set to ISO 25600, the actual iSO is 11848
  • All points in between are similar, Olympus has inflated ISO performance by a stop
This shows that Olympus is a disreputable company (surprise, surprise). Pentax stays very close to actual ISO. To compare E-M5 images to Pentax, you have to compare the Pentax image at one stop lower. Reviewers and consumers are being hoodwinked, which is exactly what Olympus intends.
This just shows that you don't understand dxomark:

The Online Photographer: Why ISO Isn't ISO
10-02-2012, 10:47 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by taurus9 Quote
I see; definitely from an IQ performance value proposition the Pentax Kx is one of the best out there ...that's why I bought one a few years ago

The Kx is a very good camera, but it is an entry level camera and as such does not have some of features included in more advanced cameras such as the K5 and OM-D EM-5. That's why, IMHO the price comparison between K5 and OM-D is more appropriate.
Well, I would pick the K30 to compare it to, as more similar in size...
10-02-2012, 10:54 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
This just shows that you don't understand dxomark:

The Online Photographer: Why ISO Isn't ISO
Here's a better article. Behind the scenes: extended highlights!: Digital Photography Review
What Olympus is doing is exposing at a lower ISO, then boosting the signal, which means it will take twice as long to make the exposure as a Pentax. I only care about ISO in regards to how it impacts my shutter speed, which is impacted by the light intensity. The ISO number is irrelevant. in dim light, a Pentax will allow higher shutter speeds by one stop for the same exposure.

10-02-2012, 11:03 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
Take a typical everyday-type configuration for an enthusiast of a body with a fast zoom. My K-x with my Tamron 17-50/2.8 cost a grand total of US$700 combined. The Oly OM-D and the Panny 12-35/2.8 are US$2100.
You are comparing used prices with new prices, third party lenses with OEM WR ones, and a low end body with a higher end one.

Take the typical kit camera: E-PL2 with kit lens was $300 - new. I have both the K-x and the E-PL2 and there is no contest about which one I found more useful. A lens like the 12/2 appears expensive, but where do you find a compact 16/2.5 lens for Pentax?
10-02-2012, 11:20 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Here's a better article. Behind the scenes: extended highlights!: Digital Photography Review
What Olympus is doing is exposing at a lower ISO, then boosting the signal, which means it will take twice as long to make the exposure as a Pentax. I only care about ISO in regards to how it impacts my shutter speed, which is impacted by the light intensity. The ISO number is irrelevant. in dim light, a Pentax will allow higher shutter speeds by one stop for the same exposure.
You don't seem to understand even your own resources. I suggest you reread both the article I posted and yours. They are in agreement - you are the confused one.
10-02-2012, 11:42 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
You are comparing used prices with new prices, third party lenses with OEM WR ones, and a low end body with a higher end one.

Take the typical kit camera: E-PL2 with kit lens was $300 - new. I have both the K-x and the E-PL2 and there is no contest about which one I found more useful. A lens like the 12/2 appears expensive, but where do you find a compact 16/2.5 lens for Pentax?
Well, there is a 14mm f2.8, which is a little wider, if less than a stop slower.
10-02-2012, 12:34 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
You don't seem to understand even your own resources. I suggest you reread both the article I posted and yours. They are in agreement - you are the confused one.
OK, I see now. They expose at ISO 100 but under by one stop so shutter speed is not affected, then they use a tone curve to boost the signal. They aren't cheating, they are manipulating the DR, but it's no worse than Pentax does with NR.

This method does lead to overstating dynamic range for reviewers other than DXO, right? To compare DR with a Pentax, you would need to enable Highlight and Shadow correction on the Pentax.

10-02-2012, 04:32 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
OK, I see now. They expose at ISO 100 but under by one stop so shutter speed is not affected, then they use a tone curve to boost the signal. They aren't cheating, they are manipulating the DR, but it's no worse than Pentax does with NR.

This method does lead to overstating dynamic range for reviewers other than DXO, right? To compare DR with a Pentax, you would need to enable Highlight and Shadow correction on the Pentax.
No one manipulates any DR with ISO. The DR is whatever you get from the sensor. The ISO calculated by dxomark is just based on sensor saturation while manufacturers select their values according to how they want to expose scenes. And most manufacturers will set their cameras such as to avoid clipping highlights, so their ISO settings will correspond to lower dxomark ISO values. This way they give their metering a buffer to prevent clipping. There is nothing wrong in this approach and you'll see it across many cameras. The D800 has about a half stop difference. So does the Pentax Q. It will not affect DR comparisons at other sites either, because those comparisons are usually done at lowest ISO that the camera offers and what you get is what the camera can offer.

There is also no curve applied to compensate this and the DR can be extended further if you were to use features like the H&S correction on Pentax.
10-02-2012, 04:39 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Well, there is a 14mm f2.8, which is a little wider, if less than a stop slower.
Yes.

As I said before: APS-C has advantages, MFT has advantages. The big disadvantage of APS-C is that it was not exploited properly - it was second to FF in the vision of many manufacturers that used different mounts. Pentax was different, but didn't had the power/vision to change things significantly. Fuji is the first company that shows how a system should be built around the APS-C format. The big advantage of MFT is that its adopters are not distracted by larger formats and there is a single standard mount.
10-02-2012, 05:59 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
You are comparing used prices with new prices
You are wrong. My prices were both NEW.

QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
third party lenses with OEM WR ones
I'm comparing like-with-like performance. Please advise if there are any other, cheaper, non-WR 2.8 standard zoom lenses available for M43? What? None? OK then.

QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
and a low end body with a higher end one.
I'm comparing like-with-like regarding DXO mark scores, as per the title of this thread that you started. Please advise if there are any other, cheaper, M43 cameras available with a comparable DXO score? What? None? OK then. (Yes, I know the E-PM2 is likely to perform the same, but it hasn't yet been tested).

Last edited by Unsinkable II; 10-02-2012 at 06:48 PM.
10-02-2012, 10:00 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
You are wrong. My prices were both NEW.
Do you have a link to that deal? Here's mine.
10-02-2012, 11:22 PM   #88
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Why even bring up the E-PL2 with a kit lens? Inferior sensor and inferior lens. You may prefer using it, but I'd far rather have a viewfinder and a grip.

Here's the link to the Tamron:

Tamron SP AF17-50mm F/2.8 XR Di II LD Aspherical [IF] (A16) - Lens ?? - ???? - ?? - ????? Price.com.hk

HK$2,350 = US$301

Here's the link to the K-x:

Pentax K-x - DSLR ???????? - ?? - ?? - ????? Price.com.hk

I paid HK$3,750 for it and the going rate to resell a 18-55 is HK$600.

HK$3,150 is $404, making the combination of camera and lens US$705.
10-02-2012, 11:48 PM   #89
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Is there a reason so many threads on this subforum end up with someone dashing in to white knight Pentax?

It's the NON-Pentax forum, so why not let people chat about those cameras without having to "prove" Pentax is better constantly?
10-03-2012, 02:00 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Is there a reason so many threads on this subforum end up with someone dashing in to white knight Pentax?

It's the NON-Pentax forum, so why not let people chat about those cameras without having to "prove" Pentax is better constantly?
In fairness, it's the non-Pentax cameras section of the Pentax Forums. If I were looking for a discussion of the E-M5 with no mention of Pentax, I'd probably go to an Olympus forum.

It is only natural that people on these forums compare cameras to Pentaxes, as that is the majority of visitors here are familiar with.
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