[Medium FormatPro]

Given the existing price point of the Pentax K-01 and also it's second largest asset (besides the price) having the full range PK lens mounts - without the need for specific dedicated "mirrorless only lens' and/or adapters… Other mirrorless cameras not selling well at all. Then there are also the lens sales for these cameras - which are just plain dismal. But it could be worse; as the Fuji mirrorless/rangefinder people actually really want lens' - but so few are available.

Cameras such as the Nikon 1 J2. I've only seen two of these in the real world outside of any camera shop. Could be due to the fact that even with a somewhat limited two lens setup still sells for about seven hundred or so. But then again it does have the ten frames per second.

Look to see drastic price reductions in most of the existing mirrorless cameras that are still out there; especially from Canon and Nikon. Both of those companies combines could not put a dent in sales of other companies wireless such as the Sony nex series - the Sony by far being the best selling models. Panasonic is also not doing al that bad, but also might be on the edge of actually discontinuing it's mirrorless line - after perhaps just one more released camera.

With the K-01 price, wondering if the K-01 will ever quite make the second best selling mirrorless?

[dstructor]

Given the existing price point of the Pentax K-01 and also it's second largest asset (besides the price) having the full range PK lens mounts - without the need for specific dedicated "mirrorless only lens' and/or adapters… Other mirrorless cameras not selling well at all. Then there are also the lens sales for these cameras - which are just plain dismal. But it could be worse; as the Fuji mirrorless/rangefinder people actually really want lens' - but so few are available.

Cameras such as the Nikon 1 J2. I've only seen two of these in the real world outside of any camera shop. Could be due to the fact that even with a somewhat limited two lens setup still sells for about seven hundred or so. But then again it does have the ten frames per second.

Look to see drastic price reductions in most of the existing mirrorless cameras that are still out there; especially from Canon and Nikon. Both of those companies combines could not put a dent in sales of other companies wireless such as the Sony nex series - the Sony by far being the best selling models. Panasonic is also not doing al that bad, but also might be on the edge of actually discontinuing it's mirrorless line - after perhaps just one more released camera.

With the K-01 price, wondering if the K-01 will ever quite make the second best selling mirrorless?

I agree with the price point

Even though it doesn't have a local market & everything (especially lens) I'll have to import personally (costing me int. shipping + taxes...etc), What sealed the deal for me for the K-01 was the lens compatibility as well as the features enabling me to use it for studio photography instead of simply an advanced P&S with interchangable lenses like the lower NEX series

These features are built-in flash, hot-shoe, ext. mic jack, 24fps support and not having a touch screen (yes, I consider touch-screen a disadvantage)

Also the inconspicuous design/size coupled with the 40mm XS makes it a ninja of a camera; I stood outside a construction site shooting cranes and the workers barely looked once
While doing street photography once, side-walk sellers would actually ask me to take a picture; other dSLR users arouse a ton of suspicion since they "look" pro & might use the picture in something else (while I simply looked like a guy with a toy camera )

That's what i have to say about my K-01

EDIT: also, it never gets old whenever i put my camera bag next to my friends' camera bags and it's literally, never more than 1/3rd the size of theirs

----------------------

I think the K-01 does come short but not product-wise, rather marketing-wise

Before knowing the K-01, All i EVER saw about pentax was the video of the U.S. Army sergeant demonstrating how weather-sealed his pentax cameras are by burying them in fine sand then washing them under a shower then taking a picture!
Till now, that's what i mostly talk about whenever the name comes up; the Kalashnikov camera

Some stuff are meant to be hidden gems, unfortunately (and sometimes fortunately )

[causey]

I just hope Pentax can make a small profit by selling the K-01 + DA XS 40mm combo for about $300... Anyway, if they manage to sell tons of them even at this price point, the K-01 will be a small, but significant victory for the K mount.

[nosnoop]

GOther mirrorless cameras not selling well at all. Then there are also the lens sales for these cameras - which are just plain dismal.
Cameras such as the Nikon 1 J2. I've only seen two of these in the real world outside of any camera shop. Could be due to the fact that even with a somewhat limited two lens setup still sells for about seven hundred or so. But then again it does have the ten frames per second.
Look to see drastic price reductions in most of the existing mirrorless cameras that are still out there; especially from Canon and Nikon. Both of those companies combines could not put a dent in sales of other companies wireless such as the Sony nex series - the Sony by far being the best selling models.

I don't agree with your assessment at all.
Admittedly, mirrorless uptake is the lowest in US. Elsewhere in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, the market share of mirrorless is around 50%; in Europe, it is around 25 To 30%.

And Nikon 1 is selling like hot cakes. Nikon 1 J1 was the #1 top selling mirrorless in Japan for the year 2012.
Canon EOS M gathered 2+% market share in Japan within the 2 to 3 months that it has been on sale, and it's destined to be one of the top selling models in 2013.

Sony sells well in certain countries, but it is only #3 in Japan for mirrorless.

Nikon and Canon can sell cameras by just slapping their logo onto anything. Not a dent? It was actually a quite a big dent in the mirrorless market.

And unfortunately for Pentax, K-01 is not selling at all. The general consumers are not buying it.
K-01 came in at #20 in Japan (2012) at 1.3% market share (almost dead last among mirrorless models). Even Pentax Q outsells it 4:1 at 5.8% market share.

And why would Panasonic discontinue its mirrorless? Is there a rumor somewhere?
I just can't see why they would do that when their cameras are selling very well.

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Last edited by nosnoop; 01-01-2013 at 03:10 AM.

[Medium FormatPro]

Sony sells well in certain countries, but it is only #3 in Japan for mirrorless

You keep mentioning Japan. But Japan is just one country; with it's entire population adding up to make the country about number ten in population worldwide.

Let me also mention I traveled to the areas of SW Japan, South Korea, and also Hong Kong in 2012. Sorry, but most every camera I saw in Japan was (no joke) a fullframe digital - and to add to it some truly incredible optics on the front end. One also tends to forget - that throughout most of Asia that the general population tends to have a lot more discretionary income.

I just hope Pentax can make a small profit by selling the K-01 + DA XS 40mm combo for about $300... Anyway, if they manage to sell tons of them even at this price point, the K-01 will be a small, but significant victory for the K mount

Think of cameras a lot like video game consoles. Companies like Microsoft make that xbox360 thing and actually typically sell it at a loss - but then later absorb that loss in licensing and other fees. The same could be said for camera bodies in general.

When a camera body is released; most of the money goes towards the R&D and not much else. The price on most digitals is soon brought down almost to the level of taking a loss. Yet even Pentax will make up for that when they sell items such as their optics

[dstructor]

You keep mentioning Japan. But Japan is just one country; with it's entire population adding up to make the country about number ten in population worldwide.

Let me also mention I traveled to the areas of SW Japan, South Korea, and also Hong Kong in 2012. Sorry, but most every camera I saw in Japan was (no joke) a fullframe digital - and to add to it some truly incredible optics on the front end. One also tends to forget - that throughout most of Asia that the general population tends to have a lot more discretionary income.



Think of cameras a lot like video game consoles. Companies like Microsoft make that xbox360 thing and actually typically sell it at a loss - but then later absorb that loss in licensing and other fees. The same could be said for camera bodies in general.

When a camera body is released; most of the money goes towards the R&D and not much else. The price on most digitals is soon brought down almost to the level of taking a loss. Yet even Pentax will make up for that when they sell items such as their optics

and pentax's got some remarkable optics AFAIK

[nosnoop]

You keep mentioning Japan. But Japan is just one country; with it's entire population adding up to make the country about number ten in population worldwide.

It is just one country, but it is the most important market for most Japanese manufacturers as it is their domestic market. And that single market has major influence as far as camera models release and marketing direction is concerned.
The camera sales in Japan is also high in proportion to its population.
And one other reason why Japan is cited frequently in camera sales discussion as it has the most accessible camera sales and market share data. I would love to have US or European camera sales or market share data as examples too, but those data are hard to come by, and cost major $$$$ if you want camera models break down.

Let me also mention I traveled to the areas of SW Japan, South Korea, and also Hong Kong in 2012. Sorry, but most every camera I saw in Japan was (no joke) a fullframe digital - and to add to it some truly incredible optics on the front end. One also tends to forget - that throughout most of Asia that the general population tends to have a lot more discretionary income.

Everyone can their own observation, but that really does not mean anything. The hard data is what tells the overall picture.

Think of cameras a lot like video game consoles. Companies like Microsoft make that xbox360 thing and actually typically sell it at a loss - but then later absorb that loss in licensing and other fees. The same could be said for camera bodies in general.

Does not work in cameras. Many of DSLRs or mirrorless buyers do not use anything other than the bundled kit lens, and many would not buy more than one lens; unlike video game consoles where they can count on average users buying at least 5 or more games. In addition, unlike video games where one must pay the licensing rights to release games for their consoles, any 3rd party can releases lenses with zero profit going to Pentax.

At any rate, the K-01 seems to be a one off, with no current plans for follow up or replacement model.

[Mistral75]

You keep mentioning Japan. But Japan is just one country; with it's entire population adding up to make the country about number ten in population worldwide.
(...)

It is just one country, but it is the most important market for most Japanese manufacturers as it is their domestic market. And that single market has major influence as far as camera models release and marketing direction is concerned.
The camera sales in Japan is also high in proportion to its population.
And one other reason why Japan is cited frequently in camera sales discussion as it has the most accessible camera sales and market share data. I would love to have US or European camera sales or market share data as examples too, but those data are hard to come by, and cost major $$$$ if you want camera models break down.
(...)

In 2013 (January to October, latest data available), Japan accounted for 5.9% of DSLRs, 19.1% of mirrorless / compact system cameras and 9.6% of interchangeable lenses shipped worldwide by Japanese manufacturers.

Source: CIPA (Camera and Imaging Product Association) http://www.cipa.jp/english/data/pdf/d-201210_e.pdf (bodies) and http://www.cipa.jp/english/data/pdf/s-201210_e.pdf (lenses).

[Mistral75]

(...)
At any rate, the K-01 seems to be a one off, with no current plans for follow up or replacement model.

That might change.

For instance Nikon are currently working on an APS-C/24x36 fully electronic lens mount, with a diameter larger than F mount but a shorter register (flange to back distance) for their next generation of mirrorless / compact system cameras in addition to their so-called CX format (Nikon One) and publishing patents of lenses in this new mount.

If the bulk of the market asks for µ4/3 and APS-C mirrorless / compact system cameras, between low-end mirrorless / compact system cameras with smaller sensors (e.g. Pentax Q and Nikon One) and high-end APS-C and 24x36 DSLRs, Ricoh Pentax Imaging will have to propose an offer in this segment that goes beyond the ageing Ricoh GXR.

Remember also the recent interview of Mr Toshiyuki Kitazawa, Head of Business Development at Ricoh Pentax Imaging:

"Currently Pentax has both SLR and mirror-less type APS-C cameras. Comparing those two and the opinions of our customers, mirrorless cameras are used more as "lightweight" cameras. SLRs on the other hand are more often used by hobby photographers - the people who want to create images. I think perhaps our current customers fall into these two categories. We can create cameras with cutting-edge design with mirrorless cameras, and of course smaller with the omission of a mirror. We can also produce them cheaper.. (...) If we go the mirrorless route, we should choose whether to design a new mount or use the current K-mount, which is arguable. If we go mirrorless, we should ideally use a new mount and make the flange back shorter and the diameter a little bigger for brighter lenses, which will be more meaningful. (...) That is the big debate. Pentax is known for its "mad" legacy compatibility since we haven't changed mount in a long time. This has been one of the reasons Pentax customers trust and choose us. It would require quite the determination to cut the tie and go with a new mount. (...) If we were to go with a new mount, we would have to think not only few years ahead, but 10, 15 years ahead and decide what we want to do with such mount. It will be difficult to drop the K-mount but we will have that discussion and make the decision carefully."

Source: Impress Magazine https://www.impressjapan.jp/pr/monitor/1113_dcm/271301_free.pdf

[reeftool]

I think a lot of the initial buyers of micro 4/3 cameras wanted something to mount their old, orphaned lenses on. IMO, the K-01 is too big to be of any use to me and now that the Q has a K mount adapter, it's much more practical and lightweight. The problem the Pentax exec mentions is the problem all the manufacturers have really. Changing their lens mounts could amount to a death sentence and maintaining multiple systems is expensive. All the manufacturers will HAVE to keep making DSLR's. The DSLR is still what brings home the paycheck.Their users will be demanding it for several years and share holders will continue to demand quarterly profits. Is there enough profit for multiple lens systems? The younger users who have grown up in the digital age seem to like the high end mirrorless cameras while us older folk grudgingly accept the fact that they have their uses but not as our principal camera and certainly not the camera we would use for "important" pictures. It may well be 10 or 15 years down the road before mirrorless cameras rule the roost and the generation that grew up on them control the marketplace.

[Kunzite]

And unfortunately for Pentax, K-01 is not selling at all. The general consumers are not buying it.
K-01 came in at #20 in Japan (2012) at 1.3% market share (almost dead last among mirrorless models). Even Pentax Q outsells it 4:1 at 5.8% market share.

The K-01 making into the top 20 means it was far from being "almost dead last among mirrorless models"; there were/are many other models on the market, not only 20-something.
Given how it was received, #20 is a surprising performance.

[Laurentiu Cristofor]

Given how it was received, #20 is a surprising performance.

Let's not forget that it was received quite well around here - I was one of the critics and I was in a minority with everyone else being happy about its use of the K mount. Quite the opposite happened for the Q, which was held in pretty much universal disregard and seen as a waste of development resources - I was in an even smaller minority defending it. And now look at which one sells better. The PF general opinion seems to go against that of the market.

[dstructor]

Let's not forget that it was received quite well around here - I was one of the critics and I was in a minority with everyone else being happy about its use of the K mount. Quite the opposite happened for the Q, which was held in pretty much universal disregard and seen as a waste of development resources - I was in an even smaller minority defending it. And now look at which one sells better. The PF general opinion seems to go against that of the market.

I have to add that the "mount fidelity" was also one of the big points that made me choose the K-01; all the other had adapters but it was such a hassle

Also, you should see the look on their faces; when veteran photographers pull out their old manual K Lenses and work the k-01 with it!