The Foveon Club: Life Unfiltered

hoopsontoast · 11-12-2013, 06:00 AM

Originally posted by Louicio

I understand where you are coming from, I have heard the SDm is variable in quality depending on lens etc. It is just very restricting to buy three cameras. Surely sigma couldve made the same camera and lenses but made them interchangable?

Looking at the cut-away, the lenses go quite far back into the body, could this be accommodated in an ILC?

Louicio · 11-12-2013, 06:31 AM

I'd never seen that before, cool thanks. Maybe thats the reason. I still really like foveon images going to bide my time to get one lol

scratchpaddy · 11-12-2013, 11:24 AM

Oh, I forgot about these: Sigma has a line of small lenses for M4/3 and E-mount:

Sigma DN for Mirroless

I have to wonder if those first two lenses are in any way related to the ones in the DP1M and 2. I don't know, maybe Sigma will do something crazy in the future. Sigma likes crazy.

scratchpaddy · 11-12-2013, 11:32 AM - **1 Like**

Hey, look at this. I found out where they got the design for the DP series!

That shape is unmistakable! I'm amazed that Procter & Gamble hasn't demanded royalties.

panoguy · 11-12-2013, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by scratchpaddy

I have to wonder if those first two lenses are in any way related to the ones in the DP1M and 2. I don't know, maybe Sigma will do something crazy in the future. Sigma likes crazy.

They do like "crazy" all right, but not in the "let's produce our cameras in 100 colors" kind of crazy.

BTW, it has been anecdotally confirmed (looking for the attribution) that the NEX lenses of the same focal length and speed are a different design from the ones built into the DP-series compacts, but share some of the same elements.

My guess is that the DP's have optical designs to correct any dispersion at the back (trying to get all the light to hit the sensor straight on), and apparently all have their sensor hand-adjusted to match the lens optical axis. That is obviously impossible with an ILC like the SD1M, since the optical axis is affected by the lensmount (both male & female) and the condition of the lens (a loose or misaligned element from handling or dropping or production). The new A1 series of lenses ("Art, Sport, Contemporary") seem to have the strictest quality control, but even they are subject to the vagaries of handling and the condition of the body they are mounted on...

[BTW, can someone resize that gigantic lens diagram image? It makes the whole thread unbelievably wide]

**barondla** · 11-12-2013, 01:15 PM - **1 Like**

Great images everyone. Always inspiring.

The Sigma DP with interchangeable lens info is interesting. What if Sigma made a DP*Merrill with two calibrated lenses that came in your camera kit? They could pick a wide and a tele. Say 28-35 and 80-90 equivalent lenses. Both would be calibrated to your exact body.

Anyone on the fence about Foveon quality needs to see enlargements. Big enlargements. Not only are the sharp, there is also the extra color info, and a purity that Bayer never reaches.

My FF N shooting buddy has the D600. After seeing my DP1Merrill images he is thinking D800. On a shoot, I always call the Sigma my P&S. It is killing him that FF can't beat a P&S. Too much fun.

Stormtech asked about hand held vs tripod. All of my images have been tripod except Sheep Barn and this fall tree pic. I find the Sigma tough to shoot hand held without IS. The shutter button doesn't make it any better either.
thanks
barondla

stormtech · 11-12-2013, 01:29 PM

What color @barondia !

You brought up another question when you mentioned enlargements - how does the IQ hold up when printing? I realize that a lot would have to do with the printer and software used, but I got to wondering how these images would look printed on my Canon Pro-100 printer.......

hoopsontoast · 11-12-2013, 02:10 PM - **2 Likes**

**barondla** · 11-12-2013, 03:56 PM

Absolutely beautiful hoopsontoast. The way the light dances in the background is amazing. Exposure is perfect.
thanks for sharing
barondla

**barondla** · 11-12-2013, 04:19 PM

Stormtech, you must print the Sigma shots to get the full effect. That is what got my FF buddy in trouble. Made him a disc of shots from our photo trip. He had the new D600, me the Sigma. He thought my shots looked fine on the monitor. Then he printed them at 17x25 on the Epson 4400, well that started the D800 thoughts. He struggles with the idea of hiking around with a huge FF and 24-70 and 70- 210 f2.8 constant aperture zoom lenses only to meet his match in a P&S. It is so funny to watch. He can't stand the thought of using a compact camera for serious work. He equates it with using a phone for photography. His problem, not mine.

If you don't have any Sigma files we could probably send you some. Problem is each file is 70-80mb. No idea how to send them. Can't email even one.
thanks
barondla

hawkeye86 · 11-12-2013, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by hoopsontoast

This one has a tiny spider..... See if you can spot him!

I see two tiny spiders. Gotta love the texture detail this sensor delivers.

Originally posted by scratchpaddy

Hey, look at this. I found out where they got the design for the DP series!

Seems it would be as hard to hold without an aftermarket grip too.

Has anyone posted panorama shots with a DP3M? I keep thinking that would be a FF/MF kicker.

stormtech · 11-12-2013, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by barondla

Stormtech, you must print the Sigma shots to get the full effect. That is what got my FF buddy in trouble. Made him a disc of shots from our photo trip. He had the new D600, me the Sigma. He thought my shots looked fine on the monitor. Then he printed them at 17x25 on the Epson 4400, well that started the D800 thoughts. He struggles with the idea of hiking around with a huge FF and 24-70 and 70- 210 f2.8 constant aperture zoom lenses only to meet his match in a P&S. It is so funny to watch. He can't stand the thought of using a compact camera for serious work. He equates it with using a phone for photography. His problem, not mine.

If you don't have any Sigma files we could probably send you some. Problem is each file is 70-80mb. No idea how to send them. Can't email even one.
thanks
barondla

Great story! I guess I can kind of see his point but must be fun to prove him wrong.

I have a shared web hosting space - going to see how you could possibly upload a file to me there to download.

hawkeye86 · 11-12-2013, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by stormtech

I have a shared web hosting space - going to see how you could possibly upload a file to me there to download.

Like DropBox or Google Drive might be an idea.
I'd like to see the full size files too.

**barondla** · 11-12-2013, 06:45 PM

I don't have a problem uploading you a few files. I have highspeed cable at work so it shouldn't be too difficult. May need instructions on how to place them on your site or to Dropbox.

Stormtech and hawkeye86 have you downloaded Sigma Photo Pro 5.5 ( think thats the right #)? It is free on the Sigma website. I could download a Raw file and a couple converted to tif. 16bit tiff are huge files.
Let me know what you find out.
thanks
barondla

scratchpaddy · 11-12-2013, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by hawkeye86

I'd like to see the full size files too.

I've made a public Google Drive folder where you can download some raw files, here:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8Bb3ai9sIwoMDYxSU4xRWt2X1E&usp=sharing

You don't need an account to download them, but you will need Sigma Photo Pro to process them (it's free). X3F files are not supported by any other software.

Three files are from the DP2M (the ones with "d" after the date in the filename), and three are from the SD1M ("s" in the filename after the date). Of the SD1 files, two are with the 12-24 II, and one is with the 50mm EX DG Macro. Have fun!

If anyone wants to add files of their own, I think you'd need a Gmail account, but I'm not sure. Just send me your email in a PM, and I'll share the folder with you for read/write access.

11-12-2013, 11:48 AM	#350
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327	Originally posted by scratchpaddy I have to wonder if those first two lenses are in any way related to the ones in the DP1M and 2. I don't know, maybe Sigma will do something crazy in the future. Sigma likes crazy. They do like "crazy" all right, but not in the "let's produce our cameras in 100 colors" kind of crazy. BTW, it has been anecdotally confirmed (looking for the attribution) that the NEX lenses of the same focal length and speed are a different design from the ones built into the DP-series compacts, but share some of the same elements. My guess is that the DP's have optical designs to correct any dispersion at the back (trying to get all the light to hit the sensor straight on), and apparently all have their sensor hand-adjusted to match the lens optical axis. That is obviously impossible with an ILC like the SD1M, since the optical axis is affected by the lensmount (both male & female) and the condition of the lens (a loose or misaligned element from handling or dropping or production). The new A1 series of lenses ("Art, Sport, Contemporary") seem to have the strictest quality control, but even they are subject to the vagaries of handling and the condition of the body they are mounted on... [BTW, can someone resize that gigantic lens diagram image? It makes the whole thread unbelievably wide] Last edited by panoguy; 11-12-2013 at 11:55 AM.

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11-12-2013, 06:00 AM	#346
hoopsontoast Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 861	Originally posted by Louicio I understand where you are coming from, I have heard the SDm is variable in quality depending on lens etc. It is just very restricting to buy three cameras. Surely sigma couldve made the same camera and lenses but made them interchangable? Looking at the cut-away, the lenses go quite far back into the body, could this be accommodated in an ILC?

11-12-2013, 06:31 AM	#347
Louicio Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Melbourne Posts: 432	I'd never seen that before, cool thanks. Maybe thats the reason. I still really like foveon images going to bide my time to get one lol

11-12-2013, 11:24 AM	#348
scratchpaddy Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Phoenix Posts: 3,361 Original Poster	Oh, I forgot about these: Sigma has a line of small lenses for M4/3 and E-mount: Sigma DN for Mirroless I have to wonder if those first two lenses are in any way related to the ones in the DP1M and 2. I don't know, maybe Sigma will do something crazy in the future. Sigma likes crazy.

11-12-2013, 11:32 AM - 1 Like	#349
scratchpaddy Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Phoenix Posts: 3,361 Original Poster	Hey, look at this. I found out where they got the design for the DP series! That shape is unmistakable! I'm amazed that Procter & Gamble hasn't demanded royalties.

11-12-2013, 01:29 PM	#352
stormtech Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: In the boonies (NW Penna) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,744	What color @barondia ! You brought up another question when you mentioned enlargements - how does the IQ hold up when printing? I realize that a lot would have to do with the printer and software used, but I got to wondering how these images would look printed on my Canon Pro-100 printer.......

11-12-2013, 02:10 PM - 2 Likes	#353
hoopsontoast Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 861

11-12-2013, 03:56 PM	#354
barondla Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: midwest, United States Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,714	Absolutely beautiful hoopsontoast. The way the light dances in the background is amazing. Exposure is perfect. thanks for sharing barondla

11-12-2013, 04:19 PM	#355
barondla Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: midwest, United States Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,714	Stormtech, you must print the Sigma shots to get the full effect. That is what got my FF buddy in trouble. Made him a disc of shots from our photo trip. He had the new D600, me the Sigma. He thought my shots looked fine on the monitor. Then he printed them at 17x25 on the Epson 4400, well that started the D800 thoughts. He struggles with the idea of hiking around with a huge FF and 24-70 and 70- 210 f2.8 constant aperture zoom lenses only to meet his match in a P&S. It is so funny to watch. He can't stand the thought of using a compact camera for serious work. He equates it with using a phone for photography. His problem, not mine. If you don't have any Sigma files we could probably send you some. Problem is each file is 70-80mb. No idea how to send them. Can't email even one. thanks barondla

11-12-2013, 04:57 PM	#356
hawkeye86 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere around Seattle Posts: 53	Originally posted by hoopsontoast This one has a tiny spider..... See if you can spot him! I see two tiny spiders. Gotta love the texture detail this sensor delivers. Originally posted by scratchpaddy Hey, look at this. I found out where they got the design for the DP series! Seems it would be as hard to hold without an aftermarket grip too. Has anyone posted panorama shots with a DP3M? I keep thinking that would be a FF/MF kicker.

11-12-2013, 05:13 PM	#357
stormtech Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: In the boonies (NW Penna) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,744	Originally posted by barondla Stormtech, you must print the Sigma shots to get the full effect. That is what got my FF buddy in trouble. Made him a disc of shots from our photo trip. He had the new D600, me the Sigma. He thought my shots looked fine on the monitor. Then he printed them at 17x25 on the Epson 4400, well that started the D800 thoughts. He struggles with the idea of hiking around with a huge FF and 24-70 and 70- 210 f2.8 constant aperture zoom lenses only to meet his match in a P&S. It is so funny to watch. He can't stand the thought of using a compact camera for serious work. He equates it with using a phone for photography. His problem, not mine. If you don't have any Sigma files we could probably send you some. Problem is each file is 70-80mb. No idea how to send them. Can't email even one. thanks barondla Great story! I guess I can kind of see his point but must be fun to prove him wrong. I have a shared web hosting space - going to see how you could possibly upload a file to me there to download.

11-12-2013, 05:35 PM	#358
hawkeye86 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere around Seattle Posts: 53	Originally posted by stormtech I have a shared web hosting space - going to see how you could possibly upload a file to me there to download. Like DropBox or Google Drive might be an idea. I'd like to see the full size files too.

11-12-2013, 06:45 PM	#359
barondla Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: midwest, United States Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,714	I don't have a problem uploading you a few files. I have highspeed cable at work so it shouldn't be too difficult. May need instructions on how to place them on your site or to Dropbox. Stormtech and hawkeye86 have you downloaded Sigma Photo Pro 5.5 ( think thats the right #)? It is free on the Sigma website. I could download a Raw file and a couple converted to tif. 16bit tiff are huge files. Let me know what you find out. thanks barondla

11-12-2013, 06:55 PM	#360
scratchpaddy Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Phoenix Posts: 3,361 Original Poster	Originally posted by hawkeye86 I'd like to see the full size files too. I've made a public Google Drive folder where you can download some raw files, here: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8Bb3ai9sIwoMDYxSU4xRWt2X1E&usp=sharing You don't need an account to download them, but you will need Sigma Photo Pro to process them (it's free). X3F files are not supported by any other software. Three files are from the DP2M (the ones with "d" after the date in the filename), and three are from the SD1M ("s" in the filename after the date). Of the SD1 files, two are with the 12-24 II, and one is with the 50mm EX DG Macro. Have fun! If anyone wants to add files of their own, I think you'd need a Gmail account, but I'm not sure. Just send me your email in a PM, and I'll share the folder with you for read/write access.