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09-13-2013, 09:58 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
Or a m4/3....
That doesn't get him as much range, with AF; but The Olympus or the Panasonic 300mm zooms, with a cheap body, would be a great combo as well(with better AF).

09-13-2013, 01:12 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
That doesn't get him as much range, with AF; but The Olympus or the Panasonic 300mm zooms, with a cheap body, would be a great combo as well(with better AF).
Ahh true, if one wants AF the Nikon 1 I think would be the route to go. If no AF then m4/3 or the Q's would be good

09-13-2013, 03:18 PM   #63
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going to give a hand at movies in the near future with the D800. I don't know what I'm going to film, but I can't let a feature with such control go to waste!

I've also decided this on my kit:

24mm f2.4 D - My favorite Nikon lens, not the sharpest, but delivers beautiful contrast and colors. I can't stop using this thing. It made me buy a DA 15 Limited f4 for my K5 as they deliver similar FOV, and then there is just the natural legend of the DA15Ltd

50mm f1.8 G - Never leave home without it, unless I'm not taking a bag. I never liked using 30-35mm lenses on my K5, didn't like the framing or rendering very much, but always loved 50mm on my K5. Even though the FOV is similar to a 35mm on APSC, I find I actually really enjoy this lens a lot. Not because of the FOV, but because of how it renders images. AF is quick, but not as accurate as it usually is with the 24 or 85

85mm f1.8 G - Was my first Nikon lens, and arguably my least used. I use it only for portraits, haven't really used it as a walk about or general purpose yet. Now that being said, I love the FOV, and I really enjoy the lens. AF is fast and accurate, I really wish Nikon had a 77mm Limited. (my favorite overall lens)

80-200 f2.8 AF-S - Less than half the price of the 70-200 VRII f2.8 I grabbed this one when I saw it in stock. I have not been disappointed either. I think this is my most used lens, I use it for everything and even though it's a beast to haul around I really enjoy it's use. AF is slower than any other lens I've used in any of my systems, but it's good enough, and locks nicely. The rendering is quite nice, but I find there can be color blending sometimes, especially at infinity (ie: folds in ones shirt kinda look soft and mushy). It is the softest lens I have for sure, but it delivers a great end result.

50mm f1.4 Carl Zeiss - I'm torn about this lens. It's not as sharp as the 50mm f1.8 from Nikon, but the colors and contrast are better, and it has better flare resistance. I only use it when I got time to manual focus... so it may be sold in the future.

SB700 Flash - I got two, and I use hotshoe adapters to use them on all my cameras. They are that good. Love these things.


However, I find myself using my K5 more and more. Sure I got some new lenses for it recently (DA 15 Limited, DFA 50 Macro), but I forgot how enjoyable the K5 is. but I think using the D800 has made my skills with the K5 improve and make me overall a better shooter. I have more and more keepers with my K5 than I did before D800 acquisition. I can narrow this down to one reason, my AF technique that I learned from D800 owners, the AF-ON/AF-C method while disabling the AF from the shutter button.
09-19-2013, 06:55 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote


However, I find myself using my K5 more and more. Sure I got some new lenses for it recently (DA 15 Limited, DFA 50 Macro), but I forgot how enjoyable the K5 is.
Is that more do to the size of the K5?




QuoteQuote:
my AF technique that I learned from D800 owners, the AF-ON/AF-C method while disabling the AF from the shutter button
Could you expand on that or there there a link showing what you mean?

09-19-2013, 07:48 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by richmondthefish Quote
Could you expand on that or there there a link showing what you mean?
Decoupling AF from shutter and assigning it to AF button can also be done in pentax but with the nikons, AF-C is actually useful so you can use it like the following:

If you use AF-C assigned to the AF button on D600, it will lock focus and can track moving target with it when the button is held down. When your subject is not moving and you want to use AF-S, you can just release it after it's locked the first time.

It's basically makes it AF-S and AF-C in one (not AF-A since you control when it's AF-C and when it's AF-S). You can do focus recompose on static subject when needed, and track moving subjects when needed, without changing settings or buttons.

The only weakness to this method is that AF assist light is disabled in AF-C, but I have not find that to be a problem to my shooting. I set U2 mode to AF-S to get the assist light when needed.

I've only had experience with Pentax AF up to K-x, but the k-x AF-C even when using center point only can't touch D600 3D tracking, even at the non-cross points. That thing can catch a running toddler in any direction as long as there is any sort of color contrast (eyes are often contrasty enough). I get 90% keeper rate (focus wise) with 85mm shots at f/1.8!

Last edited by Andi Lo; 09-19-2013 at 07:56 AM.
09-19-2013, 08:09 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by richmondthefish Quote
Is that more do to the size of the K5?






Could you expand on that or there there a link showing what you mean?
It has to so with the weight for sure. I've also got a much larger lens collection for my K5 so I'm sure that helps.


As for the AF method I wrote a good write up of how to do it with the K5 in the forum somewhere...I'm posting from my phone so can't link it out of ignorance of knowing how to create links on my phone... but a quick Google for "Nikon AF-On" will show you a few walk through.

The tracking may not be as good with the K5 (understatement of the year) but I don't use focus tracking anyways. So to members using the method on either camera is the same. The ergonomics are so close other than that stupid ISO Burton that it's easy to switch between kits.

I still have to pause when swapping iso on the D800.... most frustrating thing ever. I don't think users who started with nikon know how inconvenient it is unless they came from a Canon, pentax, or olympus...

09-19-2013, 08:58 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
...
I don't think users who started with nikon know how inconvenient it is unless they came from a Canon, pentax, or olympus...
I started with Pentax. And said before I really don't see what the problem is with the ISO button. 99.9% of the time I set it without looking through the view finder (looking down on the window) and if I do, my thumb reaches it just fine.

I guess it is a matter of individual style using ISO. I mean, does one constantly change it for each shot? I set the base ISO and then set the upper limit in auto ISO I'm willing to go for each condition I'm shooting in. If you are hand holding the camera, want the shot and it takes a high ISO to make the shot happen what choice do you have? So set auto ISO and never have to constantly mess with it again. More annoying for me then the ISO button on my Pentax camera is the lag between pressing the shutter button and the camera taking the picture.

09-19-2013, 09:07 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
I've only had experience with Pentax AF up to K-x, but the k-x AF-C even when using center point only can't touch D600 3D tracking, even at the non-cross points. That thing can catch a running toddler in any direction as long as there is any sort of color contrast (eyes are often contrasty enough). I get 90% keeper rate (focus wise) with 85mm shots at f/1.8!
You are comparing a $300 camera with a $2000 camera.

The Pentax push to upgrade it's autofocus started with the K-30. I'm not sure a K-x has any relevance to discussions of modern cameras. The point here being you gave up on Pentax 5 years ago so your perceptions are skewed by that.

When comparing Nikons , Canons and Pentax product of equal value Pentax's had the best keeper rate. In fact the keeper rate you claim for moving objects is higher than what the cheeper Nikons achieved on static objects.

I enjoy your observations, it's just really hard to evaluate what they mean, because your K-x is so old. I have a K-x here, and we only use it when a K-5 is un-available. It's just not a K-5 in IQ and it's not a K-30, K-50, K5II or K5IIs or any other currently available in AF capability. A new AF lens element has been added and new software developed since your K-x.

QuoteQuote:
The only weakness to this method is that AF assist light is disabled in AF-C, but I have not find that to be a problem to my shooting. I set U2 mode to AF-S to get the assist light when needed.
You do know that a K5II focusses in very low light without a focus assist light? The D600 is inferior to a K-5 II in this regard, despite being twice the cost.
09-19-2013, 09:40 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I started with Pentax. And said before I really don't see what the problem is with the ISO button. 99.9% of the time I set it without looking through the view finder (looking down on the window) and if I do, my thumb reaches it just fine.

I guess it is a matter of individual style using ISO. I mean, does one constantly change it for each shot? I set the base ISO and then set the upper limit in auto ISO I'm willing to go for each condition I'm shooting in. If you are hand holding the camera, want the shot and it takes a high ISO to make the shot happen what choice do you have? So set auto ISO and never have to constantly mess with it again. More annoying for me then the ISO button on my Pentax camera is the lag between pressing the shutter button and the camera taking the picture.
Once again a matter of individual taste. You can use auto iso. I refuse to let the camera make exposure decisions on my behalf.

09-19-2013, 10:07 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
80-200 f2.8 AF-S - Less than half the price of the 70-200 VRII f2.8 I grabbed this one when I saw it in stock. I have not been disappointed either. I think this is my most used lens, I use it for everything and even though it's a beast to haul around I really enjoy it's use. AF is slower than any other lens I've used in any of my systems, but it's good enough, and locks nicely. The rendering is quite nice, but I find there can be color blending sometimes, especially at infinity (ie: folds in ones shirt kinda look soft and mushy). It is the softest lens I have for sure, but it delivers a great end result.
My cheapo option was the Sigma 100-300/4. I got it for less than half of the 80-200 2.8 AF-S. I lose one stop of light and gain 100mm. It's truly amazing how little this lens goes for in Nikon mount. I sold one in Pentax mount for double, and this one has HSM. It's also quite sharp, from 4, though I expect it would be trounced by the 70-200 VR II.
09-19-2013, 10:09 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
Once again a matter of individual taste. You can use auto iso. I refuse to let the camera make exposure decisions on my behalf.
So you have the camera on manual, press the shutter button half-way, look at the histogram, adjust aperture/shutter/ISO settings until the histogram shows a good exposure and 5 minutes later take the shot?

I mean, if you're letting the camera select the exposure and find that acceptable why not the ISO. I, like most, want the lowest ISO you can take the shot at. So to manually set the ISO and find, say, the shutter speed is too slow, bump up the ISO, repeat until you finally find an acceptable ISO all while looking through the view finder seems like a slow and laborious way of doing it when in the end auto ISO would most like come to that conclusion with a single press of the shutter button.

But I understand your desire for control. But I think most people prefer auto ISO (guessing).
09-19-2013, 10:24 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You are comparing a $300 camera with a $2000 camera.

The Pentax push to upgrade it's autofocus started with the K-30. I'm not sure a K-x has any relevance to discussions of modern cameras. The point here being you gave up on Pentax 5 years ago so your perceptions are skewed by that.

When comparing Nikons , Canons and Pentax product of equal value Pentax's had the best keeper rate. In fact the keeper rate you claim for moving objects is higher than what the cheeper Nikons achieved on static objects.

I enjoy your observations, it's just really hard to evaluate what they mean, because your K-x is so old. I have a K-x here, and we only use it when a K-5 is un-available. It's just not a K-5 in IQ and it's not a K-30, K-50, K5II or K5IIs or any other currently available in AF capability. A new AF lens element has been added and new software developed since your K-x.

You do know that a K5II focusses in very low light without a focus assist light? The D600 is inferior to a K-5 II in this regard, despite being twice the cost.
Yeah I mentioned that I dont own a K-5, so I dont have firsthand experience with it. FWIW I find Nikon's k-x (D90) miss shots at around the same rate as k-x when used on static subjects, and I have not tested it extensively for tracking. Perhaps someday I'll pick up a k-5ii / k-30 to compare. K-5 results in the DA limited thread are so wonderful :x

By the way I have only switched this year, just because of D600's refurb price. I like the Canon 6D as well but it's not $1550

I do think Pentax is still better value in the lower end and used of the market for APSC because of various things (SR and dual wheel being one of the key ones)

Talking about ISO button I actually use auto ISO with D600. Kind of forced to actually, since changing iso is so cumbersome. (K10 has the perfect ISO button imo) Thankfully it actually works and you can set minimum shutter speed. The camera's ISO limits are quite hard to reach.

Interestingly I actually shoot K10D with auto ISO now after using D600, I just have to remember that it has a much narrower range to shoot in, and it has actually made shooting more enjoyable. Less fiddling with the exposure triangle and more about the subject.

By the way I know about using front dial for iso, I just I decided that quick exposure compensation is more useful.

Last edited by Andi Lo; 09-19-2013 at 10:56 AM.
09-19-2013, 11:33 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
So you have the camera on manual, press the shutter button half-way, look at the histogram, adjust aperture/shutter/ISO settings until the histogram shows a good exposure and 5 minutes later take the shot?

I mean, if you're letting the camera select the exposure and find that acceptable why not the ISO. I, like most, want the lowest ISO you can take the shot at. So to manually set the ISO and find, say, the shutter speed is too slow, bump up the ISO, repeat until you finally find an acceptable ISO all while looking through the view finder seems like a slow and laborious way of doing it when in the end auto ISO would most like come to that conclusion with a single press of the shutter button.

But I understand your desire for control. But I think most people prefer auto ISO (guessing).
Check histogram? Nope. I do a quick digital preview To check.

I'm young but I shot for six years on an MX before buying a DSLR so I do everything full manual all the time and trust my spot metering. So it's what I'm used too, and on a well laid out camera I'm actually very quick at changing the trinity of settings on the fly. I'm faster on all my cameras using full manual aperture,, shutter, and iso than Av and using exposure compensation to get my shot.


The thing is that as I move around my subject the light fall off may change the reading on the meter and I while I may want the same exposure the camera may not understand that.

09-19-2013, 11:47 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
...
I'm young but I shot for six years on an MX before buying a DSLR so I do everything full manual all the time and trust my spot metering...
Good deal.

I'm a manual guy too but with film. I use cameras with no built in light meter. I use a one-degree spot meter to select my middle gray exposure, develop my own film (both BW and color) and scan the images myself.

However, when I pick up an automagic DSLR I use its auto features to their fullest. If I want manual, I'll shoot film.

Last edited by tuco; 09-19-2013 at 11:54 AM.
09-19-2013, 07:56 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote

But I understand your desire for control. But I think most people prefer auto ISO (guessing).
I use auto-ISO most of the time on the D700/D800. It's more useful on the D800 as you can tie it tighter to focal length.

If for whatever reason (as wired states) I want to expose for an effect or small part of the frame and don't want to use point (or don't trust it,) I'll kick it out of auto-iso and go fully manual... But auto-ISO on the D800 is really useful and lets the camera get out of the way when you want to keep shutter speeds up. Clean shots way up the ISO range is fun.


Last edited by jsherman999; 09-19-2013 at 08:05 PM.
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