Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
07-01-2013, 09:21 PM   #1
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: La Crescenta, CA
Posts: 7,450
Canon 70D breaks cover w/ Dual Pixel CMOS AF

Canon EOS 70D First Impressions Review - DigitalCameraInfo.com

This thing is seriously a breakthrough for video. For stills shooters it's just another minor spec bump, though—better to wait for the 7D Mk. II.

07-01-2013, 11:37 PM   #2
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Borås, Sweden
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,169
Putting the 7D AF system in the XXD series is more than a "minor spec bump"!
07-02-2013, 05:28 AM   #3
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Greater Montreal Area
Posts: 736


QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
Canon EOS 70D First Impressions Review - DigitalCameraInfo.com

This thing is seriously a breakthrough for video. For stills shooters it's just another minor spec bump, though—better to wait for the 7D Mk. II.
07-02-2013, 07:41 AM   #4
JPT
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tokyo
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,030
QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
This thing is seriously a breakthrough for video.
It will be a real breakthrough for mirrorless cameras too. Since Sony is expected to have this kind of capability in their next generation sensors, it looks to me like we are getting quite close to the tipping point where reflex designs don't make sense any more. On the other hand, Canon clearly didn't feel confident enough to pursue a fully mirrorless design with the 70D.

07-02-2013, 07:58 AM   #5
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,913
So what's the DxOMark score for the new sensor?
07-02-2013, 08:35 AM   #6
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: La Crescenta, CA
Posts: 7,450
Original Poster
Doubt we'll know for a while. Canon's a couple months away from test units, or so they say.
07-02-2013, 08:36 AM   #7
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: La Crescenta, CA
Posts: 7,450
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
It will be a real breakthrough for mirrorless cameras too. Since Sony is expected to have this kind of capability in their next generation sensors, it looks to me like we are getting quite close to the tipping point where reflex designs don't make sense any more. On the other hand, Canon clearly didn't feel confident enough to pursue a fully mirrorless design with the 70D.
They said the sensor-based PDAF is 30% faster than the old hybrid AF and far better for tracking, but it's still a ways off what the traditional viewfinder-based PDAF can do.

That's not surprising since it's still first-gen tech, though.

07-02-2013, 02:50 PM   #8
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 6,615
QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
They said the sensor-based PDAF is 30% faster than the old hybrid AF and far better for tracking, but it's still a ways off what the traditional viewfinder-based PDAF can do.

That's not surprising since it's still first-gen tech, though.
Yeah, but it shows you how manufacturers will go about giving you the advantages of mirrorless and the AF speed of PDAF.

The EVF is still an issue.
07-02-2013, 04:55 PM   #9
Veteran Member
falconeye's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Munich, Alps, Germany
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,871
The 70D's sensor with dual capture is a turning point for the industry. IMHO.

It uses all the light from the sensor for AF. And additionally, it has added phase information it an use.

In order not to be mistaken, the dual capture sensor must still correlate two rather blurry images (the keft and right halves) and may even additionally apply contrast maximization to achieve perfect focus. So, it does not have the relative clear signal a conventional phase AF receives from its restricted angles. Nevertheless, I assume that future installations of this technology very significantly outperforms phase AF in terms of both speed and accuracy. Including tracking performance. Not yet the 7D as Canon never had brillant algorithms. But somebody soon enough.

And as soon as SLR tracking starts to look poor, will mirror-based technologies start to fade out. Which is why I said turning point.
07-03-2013, 05:10 AM   #10
Pentaxian




Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,471
So many diodes on the sensor, I wonder if it stays cool enough or some other hardware/software is used to keep the noise down.
07-04-2013, 09:52 AM - 1 Like   #11
Veteran Member
falconeye's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Munich, Alps, Germany
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,871
Blog article

I have published a blog article which summarizes my thoughts:

-> Falk Lumo: Comment: Why the new "Dual Pixel AF" will transform the photo industry

The article includes results of my research what may have happened behind the curtains. My current deduction: Canon sealed it all during 12 busy working days in 2010 ...
07-04-2013, 11:01 AM   #12
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Greater Montreal Area
Posts: 736
Is that the same AF mechanism that Sony was going to use on its new 24mp sensor as well? Since it's patented by Canon I wouldn't think it is. Have you heard of what sony is planning?

QuoteQuote:
new generation of Sony sensors with much improved Phase Detection system.
Canon’s new 70D has Dual Pixel AF sensor. Challenges Sony next generation sensor. | sonyalpharumors
07-04-2013, 02:17 PM - 1 Like   #13
Veteran Member
falconeye's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Munich, Alps, Germany
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,871
QuoteOriginally posted by mamethot Quote
Is that the same AF mechanism that Sony was going to use on its new 24mp sensor as well? Since it's patented by Canon I wouldn't think it is. Have you heard of what sony is planning?
I think nobody knows yet what Sony is going to do.

But two things seem pretty obvious to me:

1. Sony feels an urge to solve the sensor-plane AF problem (what Dual pixel AF does).

2. It took Canon 12 working days to turn the 2010 Fuji announcement into another patent. I don't think it could influence Sony in any way (except maybe meeting each other in the patent office lobby ). But it shows how obvious the idea must have appeared to every knowledgable engineer in the field, Sony included. Maybe, we should do some searches in the Japan Patent Office database. Any native speakers here?
07-04-2013, 04:36 PM   #14
Veteran Member
Aegon's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,414
Good article Falk, especially tracking down the Fuji announcement and comparing the date to Canon's Japanese patent application.

I've attached a machine translation of the patent, for what it is worth. (apparently this site does not support uploading RTF files, so I made it a DOC).
Attached Files
File Type: doc Machine Translation of JP 2013-37777.doc (173.0 KB, 150 views)

Last edited by Aegon; 07-04-2013 at 04:45 PM.
07-04-2013, 07:52 PM   #15
Pentaxian
Class A's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 11,098
QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I have published a blog article which summarizes my thoughts:
..
Thanks for the article.

Typo "mast" -> "must".

I agree with you that this technology has the potential to become a game changer.

Currently I guess that the AF base equivalent of Canon's MPAF may not be that large because the photodiodes are probably not that discriminating in terms of angular sensitivity. However, this will probably be addressed when MPAF uses 16 photodiodes, or so, in place of one conventional sensel.

You are right that this new approach breathes new life into the mirrorless concept, but I'd still give conventional DSLRs quite some lifespan because I'm sceptical about the speed at which EVFs can be developed so that they can replace the experience of an OVF.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
70d, canon
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Canon 120mp APS-H CMOS sensor ! jogiba Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 16 08-22-2013 10:48 PM
Canon 70D leaked RonakG Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 7 06-29-2013 06:38 AM
PENTAX K-01 Digital Camera w/Dual Lenses $399.99 TropicalMonkey Pentax Price Watch 9 05-21-2013 01:34 PM
For Sale - Sold: Black Kx Body w/ Dual 45 Split Focusing Screen (Near Mint) joe.penn Sold Items 2 02-19-2012 10:09 AM
AF tracking w/ Canon 7D video & stills Samsungian Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 33 01-14-2010 11:42 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:39 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top