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09-03-2013, 08:12 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
None of the 5 limiteds cover anything from 30mm to 50mm in 135 format terms, only much bigger zooms cover it.
Doesn't 21 x 1.5 = 31.5?

09-03-2013, 08:27 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Doesn't 21 x 1.5 = 31.5?
Yes, DA21 is 31mm. It is more wide than a normal wide, like 35mm, or 40mm, or perfect normal like 43mm.
09-03-2013, 09:51 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
...
Not hugely different from their current XF 18mm f2 either, in either FOV or aperture.
IQ-wise it is their worst lens in their line up. The 18-55mm zoom is way better at 18mm than the prime after owning both but traded in the 18mm prime to get the zoom.
09-04-2013, 04:20 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
I suspect they needed an all new APS-C design for them, and that was out of question — even under Ricoh's management.
Forget about it. DSLRs are dead. Fuji benefits from short flange distance. 23/1.4 for DSLR, even APS-C one, will be huge and heavy.

09-04-2013, 06:22 AM   #20
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Looks like Fuji is trying to become king for the prime lens shooter.

14mm F/2.8
23mm F/1.4
35mm F/1.4
56mm F/1.2

Those 4 lenses would make for a very nice, very compact travel kit.
09-04-2013, 07:33 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
You're damn right; a distance scale, aperture ring, and looks really well made ... this could be the lens for the APS-C.
Focus and aperture by wire, but at least the controls are in the right place


Steve
09-04-2013, 08:06 AM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
14mm F/2.8
23mm F/1.4
35mm F/1.4
56mm F/1.2

Those 4 lenses would make for a very nice, very compact travel kit
Compact!? at 400grams per lens, thatīs 1,6Kg of lenses.... maybe 2kg with the body? Rather take K-5+16-50/2.8 and still below 1,3Kg

09-04-2013, 08:32 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by carrrlangas Quote
Compact!? at 400grams per lens, thatīs 1,6Kg of lenses.... maybe 2kg with the body? Rather take K-5+16-50/2.8 and still below 1,3Kg
It's laughable
16-50 is practically unusable at f2.8, Fuji 18-55 will eat this crap at equal apertures and only stop slower at the long end
And Fuji lenses are smaller and lighter ones designed for DSLRs, so in fact:
14mm weights 233g
23mm should be about the same, based on size
35mm weights only 187g
56 may weight up to 400g indeed (summilux 50/1.4 weights 365).
So it's about 1kg of lenses. But they are faster than Pentax zoom. Once you need FL coverage take a kit zoom, which is better than Pentax at equal apertures.
09-04-2013, 09:23 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Yes, DA21 is 31mm. It is more wide than a normal wide, like 35mm, or 40mm, or perfect normal like 43mm.
Back when I started people bought either a 35 or a 28. Both were considered normal wides. In every other formats a normal wide or even a normal lens has some range to it. A normal wide for Hasselblad V system for example is either the 50 or the 60 and for 4X5 anything from 90 to maybe 120 is a normal wide and from 135 to 190 or even 210 is considered normal.

Seems to me that you have certain focal lengths you want and consider them the only true or real ones. 31 is just as normal for full frame as either 35 or 28 were. And perfect normal is only a math forumula and not anything that is actually used in selecting focal lengths. Otherwise the normal lengths for some formats would be like 266.68mm or 298mm. If the X100 has a 23mm forcal length and I think it does it did not seem any more normal wide to me when I used it than the 28mm on my film cameras or the 60 on my Hasselblad or the 90 on my 4X5
09-04-2013, 02:14 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
Back when I started people bought either a 35 or a 28. Both were considered normal wides. In every other formats a normal wide or even a normal lens has some range to it. A normal wide for Hasselblad V system for example is either the 50 or the 60 and for 4X5 anything from 90 to maybe 120 is a normal wide and from 135 to 190 or even 210 is considered normal.

Seems to me that you have certain focal lengths you want and consider them the only true or real ones. 31 is just as normal for full frame as either 35 or 28 were. And perfect normal is only a math forumula and not anything that is actually used in selecting focal lengths. Otherwise the normal lengths for some formats would be like 266.68mm or 298mm. If the X100 has a 23mm forcal length and I think it does it did not seem any more normal wide to me when I used it than the 28mm on my film cameras or the 60 on my Hasselblad or the 90 on my 4X5
I simply said that Pentax does not have one single prime lens for ApS-C that is either 35mm, 40mm or 43mm equivalent.
Note that Pentax has all three lenses for the 135 format film.
Specially because they don't have a true 35mm equivalent lens, has cost them lost or less enthusiastic customers. Fuji, Sony, Zeiss are obviously more conscious about it. Only conclusion I can draw is that it is the case of a severe mismanagement of the brand, that showed in other ends of their business.
09-04-2013, 03:57 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
It's laughable
16-50 is practically unusable at f2.8, Fuji 18-55 will eat this crap at equal apertures and only stop slower at the long end
And Fuji lenses are smaller and lighter ones designed for DSLRs, so in fact:
14mm weights 233g
23mm should be about the same, based on size
35mm weights only 187g
56 may weight up to 400g indeed (summilux 50/1.4 weights 365).
So it's about 1kg of lenses. But they are faster than Pentax zoom. Once you need FL coverage take a kit zoom, which is better than Pentax at equal apertures.
Hey, watch your language, no need to be rude. About the 16-50 being unusable wide open... Well depends on application but Iīve god pretty good pictures at f/2.8
Regarding the primes, wow they are really lightweight. I guess the design really takes advantage of the shorter flange distance.
09-04-2013, 11:00 PM - 2 Likes   #27
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This lens is now officially announced. Available for preorder from Amazon for $827. Wow, what a lens and at a resonable price. This makes that article about being glad for increased DA limited prices on the home page even more of a joke.

Fuji 23mm f/1.4 $827
Pentax 21mm f/3.2 $700

Fuji has all metal build and distance scale, like the Pentax. Difference is for an extra $127 the the Fuji is fully 2 1/3 stops faster
09-04-2013, 11:51 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
This lens is now officially announced. Available for preorder from Amazon for $827. Wow, what a lens and at a resonable price. This makes that article about being glad for increased DA limited prices on the home page even more of a joke.

Fuji 23mm f/1.4 $827
Pentax 21mm f/3.2 $700

Fuji has all metal build and distance scale, like the Pentax. Difference is for an extra $127 the the Fuji is fully 2 1/3 stops faster
Gosh, what a lens!
It has an aperture ring too, and is there, available. In Ricoh's terms, this lens would cost at least .. $1200-1300?
I think Fuji's efforts need to be congratulated. But look at the list of achievements Fuji has done.
It does remind of Pentax, we once knew ...

Last edited by Uluru; 09-05-2013 at 12:19 AM.
09-05-2013, 12:17 AM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Gosh, what a lens!
It has an aperture ring too, and is there, available. In Ricoh's terms, this lens would cost at least .. $1200-1300?
I think Fuji's efforts need to be congratulated. But look at the list of achievements Fuji has done since 2010 (or since last serious efforts done by Pentax): launched an all new system, several cameras with serious tech-breaktrhoughs, two iterations of the X100, half a dozen of brand new, original lenses, two high-end compacts, etc.
It does remind of Pentax, we once knew ...
Like always, I like to play devil's advocate: We are comparing apples and oranges here. The new Fuji system has an advantage over any DSLR system: the tiny flange focal distance makes it possible for such lenses to be created affordably. Lenses like these can exist on APSC and FF systems, but they would be HUGE in size, weight and price.

Imagine a new Pentax HD DFA 50mm ƒ1.2. Such a beast would surely be over a $1000,-. Placing this lens in the niche-of-a-niche-market. But such a fast lens on the Fuji would still be very affordable, and thus no longer be a niche.

How is the DSLR ever going to compete with such systems?
09-05-2013, 12:23 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Like always, I like to play devil's advocate: We are comparing apples and oranges here. The new Fuji system has an advantage over any DSLR system: the tiny flange focal distance makes it possible for such lenses to be created affordably. Lenses like these can exist on APSC and FF systems, but they would be HUGE in size, weight and price.

Imagine a new Pentax HD DFA 50mm ƒ1.2. Such a beast would surely be over a $1000,-. Placing this lens in the niche-of-a-niche-market. But such a fast lens on the Fuji would still be very affordable, and thus no longer be a niche.

How is the DSLR ever going to compete with such systems?
Oh no, we are talking about 24mm lens for APS-C. Even 2.8.
Pentax doesn't care about those obvious focal lengths and that shows.
But used to Pentax's and Ricoh's complacency, I'm so surprised, should I say, really positively surprised that Fuji does try, and the lens is available. It's not dragging around some roadmap for half a decade.
Today this old Pentaxian just want to hide.

Last edited by Uluru; 09-05-2013 at 12:40 AM.
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