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10-10-2013, 06:07 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
But with $1,000 dollar cameras like the GX-7 and $3,000 bodies like the coming Sony A7 line, mirrorless are moving up the market.

I have yet to see a mirrorless that can track a bride and groom running back down the isle after the ceremony. Olympus is getting close, but they are not there yet. The K-5 can't even track something as simple as the bride and groom running with the level of consistency most professionals find acceptable. I hope the K-3 can bring Pentax to that level.
The K5 II is a lot better, for what it's worth.

The big selling point in my opinion of mirrorless is the small size. Make them as large as SLRs and then it becomes an argument between EVF and OVF which is more of a personal decision. But a decent sized camera is awfully nice from an ergonomic standpoint when shooting with fast zooms or telephots, performance issues aside. It really isn't a cost thing, although 1000 dollars is pushing it for a four thirds sensor camera.

10-10-2013, 07:05 PM   #17
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Anything can happen in five years time, however Nikon and Canon will be still around.

I find it interesting he left out the fact that mirrorless cameras sales are down 15% vs the DSLR 10%.

Camera sales history from 2011 till today. Mirrorless hype is over. DSLR rules. | 43 Rumors
10-10-2013, 07:23 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
On a related note, I was also rather stunned to see the number of amateur photogs and tourists walking around with high-end gear (5D3's, D800's everywhere). Economy must be doing well.
Apparently, even the new government recognises that. Amazing what a difference moving from opposition does for your clarity.

Back on topic, how many of those big lenses had the hoods on back to front? My observation of the crowds around the Tall Ships in the harbour here is the same as your describe - lots of smart phones, iPads (mostly wielded by small women - don't ask me why: just an observation) big DSLRs (contrary to popular opinion, I saw a couple of Pentaxes, too) and almost no MILCs.

Sony taking over the world? I don't think so. Sony finding new ways to lose lots of money? Probably more likely.
10-10-2013, 07:42 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by DanWeso Quote
Anything can happen in five years time, however Nikon and Canon will be still around.

I find it interesting he left out the fact that mirrorless cameras sales are down 15% vs the DSLR 10%.

Camera sales history from 2011 till today. Mirrorless hype is over. DSLR rules. | 43 Rumors
It is an off cycle year for mirrorless cameras. Spring of 2012 saw the OM-D, XP-1, & Sony NEX-7 launched with very strong sales. Expect sales to be back up next Spring as the EM-1 is shipping and replacements for the NEX-7 and XP-1 hit the market.

Product cycles play a big role in sales. I bet Pentax is seeing a surge in sales right now.....

10-10-2013, 08:44 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
contrary to popular opinion, I saw a couple of Pentaxes, too
So did I - some K-30's, a K-5, even a white K-x in the hands of a very cute Pentax girl.
But they were, of course, swamped by literally hordes of Canon, Nikon and Sony DSLR's.

I also visit Ted's Cameras and inspected their Pentax display cabinet, where it was nice to see a K-30, some K-5's, an MX-1, and a Q10. But I was surprised to see most of their Pentax DSLR bodies were mated to some film era ancient junk Sigma kit zooms, which made Pentax look crappy, and compared poorly to, for example, the Nikon cabinet, where Nikon bodies were rocking modern Nikon lenses, etc.
10-11-2013, 06:13 AM   #21
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Did you guys went to the actual official ceremony? I couldn't be bothered... too many people, I did went to Bradley's Head for the warship entrance though.
10-11-2013, 06:16 AM   #22
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Have yet to see a Nex seen in the hands of casual amateurs - the fact is that a Nikon D5100 with a similar lens really does not take up that much more bag space than Nex and the 5100 can be had for almost next to nothing.

The Canon market is so massive over here and due to the fact Canon updates and changes their models faster than the speed of sound, there is a dirth of hardly used current models at like $200 - hence why every 2nd shooter has an entry level Canon.

For the rest its either the iphone, Samsung Galaxy or p&s being used.

For sure though I have to agree that technology is moving fast - never did I realize that I would be using my Sony RX100 more than my Nikon D7000 for a lot of my photography. Its small size portability and image quality it's amazing.

10-11-2013, 06:21 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
Ipad was launch in 2009 less than 5 years ago.
What happening to PC in the last 2 years?
PC sales drop 9% just in the last quarter
In five years, Microsoft’s share of personal computing fell from 90 to 33%
10-11-2013, 06:23 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
But with $1,000 dollar cameras like the GX-7 and $3,000 bodies like the coming Sony A7 line, mirrorless are moving up the market.

I have yet to see a mirrorless that can track a bride and groom running back down the isle after the ceremony. Olympus is getting close, but they are not there yet. The K-5 can't even track something as simple as the bride and groom running with the level of consistency most professionals find acceptable. I hope the K-3 can bring Pentax to that level.
" Both cameras have the same body (with built-in EVF in the middle-top of the camera). Both are weathersealed. Size close to the current RX1/R. The A7 costs around 1600-1700 Dollars (or Euro) and the A7r costs around 2300-2400 Dollars (or Euro)."
(SR5) A7 has on sensor PDAF while A7r has not (but comes without AA filter). | sonyalpharumors

1600euro =$2,170USD
10-11-2013, 11:44 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by DanWeso Quote
Anything can happen in five years time, however Nikon and Canon will be still around.

I find it interesting he left out the fact that mirrorless cameras sales are down 15% vs the DSLR 10%.

Camera sales history from 2011 till today. Mirrorless hype is over. DSLR rules. | 43 Rumors
Trey just needed some traffic, no news there.
10-11-2013, 01:28 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by RyanW Quote
Trey just needed some traffic, no news there.
No, Trey is sincerely deluded about this one. He's very enthusiastic about his compact system. He also is a bit over-enthusiastic about technology. This is causing him to discount the economic problems involved in what he's suggesting. DSLRs may die, but it's going to take a while for it to happen. Too many photographers have invested in expensive DSLR lenses; and that's going to keep them (or whoever they sell those lenses to) requiring DSLRs for some years to come. With the global economy entering a period of austerity, there is not enough consumption dollars out there to pay for a mass switch from DSLRs to mirrorless compacts. The contraction in the DSLR market is not a sign that mirrorless is taking over. The compact mirrorless ILC market is contracting even more. The consumer section of the market is completely glutted from over-production. That is why Olympus and Panasonic are abandoning that part of the market.
10-11-2013, 01:55 PM   #27
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It happens often in the MILC arena; there are of course people who enjoy using them, but then there are those who are starting crusades, trying to convert the "infidels" who didn't yet see the light. They can't understand how someone could possibly like something different; thus, "nobody" would want a DSLR anymore.
10-11-2013, 03:41 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It happens often in the MILC arena; there are of course people who enjoy using them, but then there are those who are starting crusades, trying to convert the "infidels" who didn't yet see the light. They can't understand how someone could possibly like something different; thus, "nobody" would want a DSLR anymore.
Can't get away from it. There are people who turn their nose up at MILC users as well, however. Some people won't take MILCs seriously, and perceive DSLRs as superior, simply because they're not an SLR. If you took a K100D and a NEX 5N, I bet most people would tell you that the K100D is the superior camera, by looks alone. I'll always have a soft spot for my old K100D, but they would be mistaken. Most of these people are of the sort that enjoy an image and say, you have a really nice camera or internet jerks; but there are also serious photographers that won't give these great little cameras their due. I think the mirrorless camera will win out in the end. And not necessarily because of form factor, but because they will be cheaper to produce in the long run. Sony is going to be making DSLR sized and styled mirrorless cameras for the A-mount. They consider that their high end, pro, line. I certainly wouldn't want to shoot a 70-200/2.8 with a NEX 5N.
10-11-2013, 04:26 PM - 1 Like   #29
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When I shoot Pentax I am only Pentax shooter in a group of Canikon shooters.

I get the:

"I used to shoot/own Pentax gears but I dumped it in:
"1987, 1990 , 1995, 2000, etc.."

Canikon own 85% plus marketshare year after year, decade after decade.
When you make it to middleaged as I have only a Pentaprism Viewfinder view will do.

Mirrorless is at absolute top a 15% marketshare toy& imaging tool for 20 somethings, not an epic fun shooting experience for those of us with aging eyesight.

Its eyeopening to own and use Aps-c Pentax, Full Frame Canon &or Full Frame Nikon.
Depending on what I'm shooting the conversations are different. I have Never seen a Pentax shooter when I shoot Pentax, Canon or Nikon. Thus Pentax Ricoh Hoya 5% max marketshare seems true to me.

Bloggers get gear for free!
I buy all the gear I own.
Bloggers are suspect.
Bloggers like Ken Rockwell say stupid crap just for the hits and ad links to then pad his bank account:
Month after month year after year, decade after decade.

None of this blogger news is news, it's just noise.

I wish B&H would allow me to clean my purchase links just to make sure I do not reward idiot bloggers with cash they do not deserve.

Last edited by Samsungian; 10-11-2013 at 04:45 PM.
10-11-2013, 04:39 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
When I shoot Pentax I am only Pentax shooter in a group of Canikon shooters.

I get the:

"I use dto shoot/own Pentax gears but I dumped it in:
"1987, 1990 , 1995, 2000, etc.."

Canikon own 85% plus marketshare year after year, decade after decade.
When you make it to middleaged as I have only a Pentaprism Viewfinder view will do.

Mirrorless is at tops a 15% marketshare toy/imaging tool for 20 somethings, not fepic fun for those of us with aging eyesight.

Its eyeopening to own and use Aps-c Pentax, Full Frame Canon &or Full Frame Nikon.
Depending on what I'm shooting the conversations are different. I have Never seen a Pentax shooter when I shoot Pentax, Canon or Nikon. Thus Pentax Ricoh Hoya 5% max marketshare seems true to me.
It is way below 5 percent in North America, but a lot better in some countries (Japan, France). It remains to be seen what will happen if Ricoh decides to advertise and push products here.

Over time, mirrorless will eat away lower end SLR sales. It is true that middle aged folks will resist EVFs more than younger people, but within a few years, high end EVFs will equal or exceed OVFs in respect to brightness and lag will be less of an issue. Focus is already easier to achieve with an EVF through the use of devices like focus peaking than with most optical viewfinders.
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