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10-12-2013, 05:03 AM   #16
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~ 2300 - 2400 euros for an FF camera with THOSE qualities isn't expensive either.

10-12-2013, 05:26 AM - 1 Like   #17
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I know just where I want to use that camera!


In my mind Sony is filling a nice niche with these cameras. Going to give this one some serious consideration, although I think as it will be new tech it will be best to watch user and professional reviews carefully before buying. Would also give the adapter makers some chance to make some suitable adapters for the new A7's. I am hoping at the best it will be similar to the manual focus experience on film but finally achieved on digital.

2014 indeed will be an interesting year for full frame and cameras in general. On the Pentax front I am interested to see what else Ricoh will have up its sleeve for APS-C and maybe maybe maybe even FF. New medium format cameras? Large sensor compacts are getting better and better. M4/3 and APS-C aren't dying off despite FF becoming more affordable-- they'll just need to keep being more creative with their offerings. Canon and Nikon have been sort of silent this year, which probably means they'll have some great stuff ready for next year (Canon 7D Mk II and Nikon D400?). Fuji X has some interesting stuff coming, too.

It really feels like the industry is maturing to a point where there are so many great options from everyone.
10-12-2013, 05:46 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
~ 2300 - 2400 euros for an FF camera with THOSE qualities isn't expensive either.
That is for the full frame 36MP A7r but the 24MP full frame A7 is said to be 1600-1700 euros.

QuoteQuote:
1) The A7 uses a 24 megapixel sensor with on sensor PDAF. It has an Anti Aliasing filter. This camera is more suited for sport or video recording
2) The A73 uses a 36 Megapixel sensor that has no PDAF on sensor. And it also has no Anti Aliasing filter just like the Nikon D800E. The camera is more appropriate for High resolution photography (like Landscape pics).

Both cameras have the same body (with built-in EVF in the middle-top of the camera). Both are weathersealed. Size close to the current RX1/R. The A7 costs around 1600-1700 Dollars (or Euro) and the A7r costs around 2300-2400 Dollars
(SR5) A7 has on sensor PDAF while A7r has not (but comes without AA filter). | sonyalpharumors
10-12-2013, 06:03 AM   #19
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I think Ricoh ultimate answer to such cameras would be skipping 135mm altogether and market a mirrorless 645D with an 135mm format crop mode.

10-12-2013, 06:11 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I think Ricoh ultimate answer to such cameras would be skipping 135mm altogether and market a mirrorless 645D with an 135mm format crop mode.
Skipping the $2,000 full frame market for the $7,000 MF market would not be a good idea IMHO. Put up a poll here and see what happens.
10-12-2013, 06:28 AM   #21
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24MP full frame A7 $1,698 at Samy's camera !

A7 24.3MEG BODY SONY

36M full frame A7r $2,198 :
XXX 36.3MEG BODY SON

(SR5) A7, A7r and RX10 price leaked at Samys! | sonyalpharumors
10-12-2013, 06:47 AM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I think Ricoh ultimate answer to such cameras would be skipping 135mm altogether and market a mirrorless 645D with an 135mm format crop mode.
I've been saying this for ages so I agree 100%

10-12-2013, 06:55 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I've been saying this for ages so I agree 100%
The full frame weathersealed Sony 36MP A7r is $2,198 so what would the price be for a mirrorless 645D with 135 crop mode ? The 645D body was $10,000 at first and is now down to $7,000 so it needs to drop much more for it to be in demand IMHO.
10-12-2013, 10:06 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
The full frame weathersealed Sony 36MP A7r is $2,198 so what would the price be for a mirrorless 645D with 135 crop mode ? The 645D body was $10,000 at first and is now down to $7,000 so it needs to drop much more for it to be in demand IMHO.
Its hard to believe that the number of people who could use a MF camera would be sufficient to support many manufacturers. With the D800 and this A7r, it would seem that there would be less demand for the MFs.

As jogiba reported, the A7 with 24mp body is "only" $1600 plus. I'm not in a particular hurry to upgrade my K5, as good as it is.
10-13-2013, 12:00 AM   #25
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It goes without saying that the next 645D (MkII) would *have* to be a mirrorless design to cut the production costs enough to lower the price point and to allow FF lenses to be attached using an adapter. Obviously it's not going to cost 2 grand but if they were to update the sensor to an 60MP or 80MP version things could get very interesting, especially if it were priced around 5 grand.

I expect Nikon will probably bring out a 54MP version of the D800 within a few months to a year - that would certainly up the ante a bit and force MF makers to get a wriggle on.
10-13-2013, 01:55 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
It goes without saying that the next 645D (MkII) would *have* to be a mirrorless design to cut the production costs enough to lower the price point and to allow FF lenses to be attached using an adapter. Obviously it's not going to cost 2 grand but if they were to update the sensor to an 60MP or 80MP version things could get very interesting, especially if it were priced around 5 grand.
That would no longer be a Pentax 645 camera as it would no longer use Pentax 645 mount. This might create more problems that it solve, and many existing Pentax 645 users will be upset, Maybe so upset that they abandon Pentax for some other MF or 35mm format.

If Pentax want to design a new mirrorless MF system, they still need to continue with 645 system. But I don't see much point in making a mirrorless system that use larger than 35mm FF sensor.
10-13-2013, 02:43 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
It goes without saying that the next 645D (MkII) would *have* to be a mirrorless design to cut the production costs enough to lower the price point and to allow FF lenses to be attached using an adapter.
Only on forums, such things go without saying, visions about a bright future where everything should be mirrorless.

What's the cost of a high-end EVF? Why is cost cutting so necessary, when Pentax already has a price advantage on the DMF market?

And obviously a mirrorless 645D cannot serve as a Pentax FF replacement, because of the cost and because a small format camera has different requirements, for a much more competitive market. So the primary reason from your post fails; sorry.

But I thought the thread subject was about a soon-to-be-announced Sony camera, not about how Pentax should go mirrorless...
10-13-2013, 03:01 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Except the Pentax LX was not weatherproof
My Leica M3 isn't explicitly mentioned as being weatherproof - though it has been dropped in snow, water,sand and I sill use it ( though it has been serviced quite a few times over the years)

Weather resistance is much more important with digital technologies these days because there are so many components that are so easily damaged by dust, humidity, and shock. Older film cameras tend to be considerably more robust than their digital counterparts.

So when it comes to dunking a camera in a bucket of water and being able to use it afterward, would the new new MILC from Sony survive? or the Pentax LX? - My money is on the Pentax LX.

QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
it needs to drop much more for it to be in demand IMHO
Medium format has never been a high demand area - trying to make it so would lead to disaster. Look at what happened to so many medium format camera and lens makers when digital photography became available to consumers and professionals alike - 90% on the medium format industry was killed off. Pay attention to the history of the industry so you don't make the same mistakes.

Last edited by Digitalis; 10-13-2013 at 03:10 AM.
10-13-2013, 04:44 AM   #29
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First low resolution image of the Sony A7 mirrorles Full Frame!

QuoteQuote:
This is the first image from the new Sony A7 mirrorless E-mount Full Frame camera! Itís a low-resolution image but 100% real. All sources that saw the camera say that the A7-A7r cameras are built like a Tank. They also were surprised by the design but almost all of them will end buying it because they quite liked the camera after a couple of minutes of testing and holding

Most of my sources do believe that these are game changing cameras. And yes, the lens offering is very limited (and expensive) but Sony plans to introduce many more lenses during the next 12 months.

The A7 24MP and A7r 36MP cameras will be announced this week on October 16. Be sure to be online at 5-6 am London time on SonyAlphaRumors.com. I will follow the event live and link you continually to first tests, reviews, image samples, videos and preorder links (so that you can be the first to get the cameras).

One more thing: I still have no video specs but I have been told that the cameras are very good in video and have some improved features.
(SR5) First low resolution image of the Sony A7 mirrorles Full Frame! | sonyalpharumors

10-13-2013, 06:02 AM   #30
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Ughh. Go back to design school pls, Sony.
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