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10-14-2013, 06:55 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Yes. It's pretty clean on the front. I want to see the back. I hope its not a touch screen with a lot of menu driven controls.
Ew yes, that would surely ruin it.

10-14-2013, 07:58 AM   #47
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First Full-Sized Photos of the Sony A7 and A7r Full-Frames Surface Online

The cheaper A7 will cost you $1,700 for the body only and $2,000 with the aforementioned kit lens, while the A7r will run $2,200 for the body only, with no kit price leaked just yet. You can find out more about the rumored specs for the two shooters by reading the rumor roundup here and these short updates here and here.
10-14-2013, 08:22 AM   #48
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The A7 is interesting. The A99 replacement (NO SLT) should be announced by the end of the year. Rumor is the A99 replacement will be mirrorless but still retain the A-mount.
10-14-2013, 08:29 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Yes. It's pretty clean on the front. I want to see the back. I hope its not a touch screen with a lot of menu driven controls.
Knowing sony, you can count on that. This camera is a distinct departure from the "festooned with controls" ergonomic that minolta used with the Dynax 7D, considering how minimalist the design is you can bet there will be a considerable amount of menu shuffling going on.

10-14-2013, 09:51 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Yes. It's pretty clean on the front. I want to see the back. I hope its not a touch screen with a lot of menu driven controls.
I would look for menus just as bad as current sony menus. If you can set it up and stay out of them, then it's not so bad.

I like the direction things are going, but there are going to be lots of growing pains for the next five years or so as mirror less and evf mature.

I want to go to sleep for five years and then go to the camera store and see where we're at.
10-14-2013, 12:35 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by RyanW Quote
I would look for menus just as bad as current sony menus. If you can set it up and stay out of them, then it's not so bad.

I like the direction things are going, but there are going to be lots of growing pains for the next five years or so as mirror less and evf mature.

I want to go to sleep for five years and then go to the camera store and see where we're at.
It is rumored to use the RX1 system which is different from other NEX bodies.

The E-mount was designed for consumers as a move up from P&S to APS-C. That is why the lenses and the menu system are so awful. My concern is that by adapting the APS-C designed mount to FF they have had to make some compromises. Maybe that is not the case.

Three things Sony has been consistently good at is making sensors, missing the market, & piss poor user interfaces. We wont even talk about how bad their JPEG engine has been. Looks like they are moving to a new JPEG engine as well. Maybe they are figuring some things out.
10-14-2013, 01:19 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Knowing sony, you can count on that. This camera is a distinct departure from the "festooned with controls" ergonomic that minolta used with the Dynax 7D, considering how minimalist the design is you can bet there will be a considerable amount of menu shuffling going on.
The NEX6 has two dials (top and rotary), direct button access to 3 shooting parameters, and Fn key access to 6 more. That's on par with most mid range DSLRs, and considerably more than the minimalist Leica M.

The only time I use the menu is for formatting the card. Since the menu can default to the last item used, virtually no menu navigation is required even for that.

The new cameras should be at least as usable as the NEX6.

A bit disappointed that they don't have Tri Navi, but the Tri Navi implementation on the NEX7 isn't very flexible. Besides, I'm likely to be shooting with M mount lenses - so I really only need two extra dials (shutter and ISO) since exposure is a dedicated dial.

10-14-2013, 01:33 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
That would no longer be a Pentax 645 camera as it would no longer use Pentax 645 mount. This might create more problems that it solve, and many existing Pentax 645 users will be upset, Maybe so upset that they abandon Pentax for some other MF or 35mm format.

If Pentax want to design a new mirrorless MF system, they still need to continue with 645 system. But I don't see much point in making a mirrorless system that use larger than 35mm FF sensor.
All they would need is an adapter for current lenses. I am always surprised at how inflexible people seem to be on these forums. It seems they'd rather see a company go out of business than adapt to the prevailing conditions of the time.
10-14-2013, 01:55 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
It seems they'd rather see a company go out of business than adapt to the prevailing conditions of the time.
Ding.... Ding... Ding.... we have a winner!
10-14-2013, 01:57 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
The NEX6 has two dials (top and rotary), direct button access to 3 shooting parameters, and Fn key access to 6 more. That's on par with most mid range DSLRs, and considerably more than the minimalist Leica M.

The only time I use the menu is for formatting the card. Since the menu can default to the last item used, virtually no menu navigation is required even for that.
I dunno if the 6 is different from the 5N, but on the 5N all the essential functions are scattered across 4 different menus. Quality select (RAW/JPEG/etc) is in the "image size" menu. ISO is under the "Brightness" menu. Autofocus mode select is under the "camera" menu IIRC (and is important if you want to switch between MF and DMF).

The menu system is the single biggest complaint I've heard about on the NEX.
10-14-2013, 01:58 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul MaudDib Quote
I dunno if the 6 is different from the 5N
Yes it is.

But even on the 5N, you have 2 soft buttons, and a custom menu that you can assign multiple shooting parameters to. Plus a rotary dial.

I didn't find the 5N any harder to use than a low end DSLR, and probably easier than most. The 5N was my first NEX - I loved it the moment I picked it up at a shop and simply could not put it down.
10-14-2013, 02:56 PM   #57
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IMHO, esp. the Sony A7r will eventually become a reference for portability and image quality in the $1500 class. The K-3 is cheaper and faster. Probably more fun to shoot with too. But I can slowly see the air become thinner for SLRs in the $1500 segment. The A7r may not yet threaten SLR sales as I expect its AF performance to be sub par. But sensor-based AF is making progress rapidly now ...
10-14-2013, 04:30 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
The A7r may not yet threaten SLR sales as I expect its AF performance to be sub par. But sensor-based AF is making progress rapidly now ...
Especially with technologies like what Canon have been using in their 70D.
10-14-2013, 04:53 PM   #59
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If the Zeiss 55mm F/1.8 is really, really good, then I will probably buy the A7r. I find it odd that Zeiss has gone with 55mm for the Otus and the E-mount.
10-14-2013, 06:01 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I find it odd that Zeiss has gone with 55mm for the Otus and the E-mount.
The Zeiss Otus 55mm f/1.4 is only available in Nikon F and Canon EF lensmounts.
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