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10-14-2013, 02:20 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Slow with lenses that are designed to work with PDAF. CDAF primes the AF is very, very fast.

The Olympus OM-D E-M1 Full Real World Review | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

There will be a lot of people who buy this body to use with M-mount glass.

We need to see what the shutter lag is and how fast everything works. The all electronic cameras take a lot more processing power than DSLRs with an OVF and mechanical mirror.
We'll see. I just know that continuous auto focus for mirrorless cameras (including for olympus) has not been great over the years.

10-14-2013, 02:30 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
We'll see. I just know that continuous auto focus for mirrorless cameras (including for olympus) has not been great over the years.
Tracking is not great, but this isn't a sports or wildlife camera. The tracking in my Contax 645 is well below what modern DSLRs can do, but there are thousands of wedding 'tog's still using the Contax 645. How fast is the AF tracking on the Pentax 645D? I can see a lot of wedding 'togs who still shoot manual focus lenses jumping at this camera for the IQ and size.
10-14-2013, 02:43 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Tracking is not great, but this isn't a sports or wildlife camera. The tracking in my Contax 645 is well below what modern DSLRs can do, but there are thousands of wedding 'tog's still using the Contax 645. How fast is the AF tracking on the Pentax 645D? I can see a lot of wedding 'togs who still shoot manual focus lenses jumping at this camera for the IQ and size.
I think wedding photographers are a little more demanding some others, requiring faster auto focus in dark situations (aka a church). My wife has been frustrated with Pentax auto focus till now, while shooting weddings, although the K5 II did bring some improvement. I think full frame pro shooters will want auto focus tracking at least close to the D800 level of shooting.
10-14-2013, 03:05 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
We'll see. I just know that continuous auto focus for mirrorless cameras (including for olympus) has not been great over the years.
Speaking from the perspective of someone who has used the Canon 1D Mk III, 1D Mk IV, I would say it is more than acceptable.

The thing is - it takes skill to use continuous AF properly - maybe even more skill than MF because one has to second guess how the camera will behave.

My first shots on a 1D Mk III were shite. Once I've learnt how to use it, the skills are transferable to other cameras. I was getting very good and similar results on a K-5.

Shutter lag is a major issue - which is an advantage for mirrorless as they often have nearly instantaneous electronic shutter.

I would say NEX6 cont AF performance is somewhere between the 1D Mk IV and the K-5, which means it is more than adequate.

The limiting factor is actually a lack of good telephoto low aperture lenses.

Here's something I captured last week on a NEX6 with the kit telephoto zoom - a butterfly flapping it's wings:


10-14-2013, 03:13 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul MaudDib Quote
At least it wasn't designed by Marc Newson...
...who is only lately coming to be regarded more favourably for the K-01 design. Though it might seem a paradox to some, I suspect his work on this camera might have improved it somewhat. Elsewhere, people have spoken disparagingly about the K-3 looking like it could have come out of East Germany, but if anything looks like that, it would have to be this camera - not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but that viewfinder reminds me of a panzer gun turret or, with the prominent eyepiece at the rear, perhaps a Soviet rocket-launcher from WW2.
10-14-2013, 03:14 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
...We need to see what the shutter lag is and how fast everything works. The all electronic cameras take a lot more processing power than DSLRs with an OVF and mechanical mirror.
First gen won't likely be a show stopper, though I personally think the technology is very exciting. I can't wait for mirrorless to get into full swing and experience a new era of photography.
10-14-2013, 03:17 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
...who is only lately coming to be regarded more favourably for the K-01 design. Though it might seem a paradox to some, I suspect his work on this camera might have improved it somewhat. Elsewhere, people have spoken disparagingly about the K-3 looking like it could have come out of East Germany, but if anything looks like that, it would have to be this camera - not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but that viewfinder reminds me of a panzer gun turret or, with the prominent eyepiece at the rear, perhaps a Soviet rocket-launcher from WW2.
I'd love to hear more but the K-01 is still a ghastly design.

Y'all are very much projecting here. The new bodies are very much conventional design. They are bog standard "mirrorless with hump" which has been the trend lately for some reason.

Olympus OM-D E-M5:


Alpha A7:


It's not a fashion statement, but not really anything too ugly either. No groundbreaking either good or bad.

e: Actually I just noticed the OM-D's viewfinder isn't at the top of the pentaprism hump, which is just wrong as a former film guy.


Last edited by Paul MaudDib; 10-14-2013 at 03:50 PM.
10-14-2013, 03:33 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul MaudDib Quote
I'd love to hear more but the K-01 is still a ghastly design.

Y'all are very much projecting here. The new bodies are very much conventional design. They don't break any ground at all.
Nothing wrong with an allusion to other areas, in order to describe one's personal reaction. The Sony is a more oblique reference to classic SLR styling, where form really did follow function, than the Olympus styling. The A77, perhaps deliberately, looks like the viewfinder has been grafted on as an afterthought to a viewfinderless body, but it still retains the form of a pentaprism housing, which would be needless styling unless a pentaprism is used to look at a horizontal screen, as with an SLR camera. So, I agree, not groundbreaking, but an awkward-looking adaptation in the Sony's case. In spite of that, I'd still consider buying one if its performance and price were right.
10-14-2013, 04:40 PM   #24
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I think the 24MP full frame A7 and 36MP A7r cameras are even smaller than the RX1r with grip and OLED EVF.

10-14-2013, 05:05 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
I would say NEX6 cont AF performance is somewhere between the 1D Mk IV and the K-5, which means it is more than adequate.
I think the NEX-6 bests the K-5, in PDAF mode, for object tracking. One glaring problem with the K-5 is that it can't take pictures of objects coming towards it. The NEX 6 has little trouble with this. I tested it with my kids on the swing and the 6 nailed focus 9/10 times with the 50/1.8 lens, with vigorous swinging. In many ways, the K-5 is a superior camera, but I give the nod to the new NEX cameras in tracking. I hope that the new system, in the K-3, is much better.

Bring on the innovation; I hope the NEX FF cameras are wildly successful, but I won't be buying one this year. Christine, I might have to add you to the ignore list so I don't drool while viewing your photos and rush out to buy one .
10-14-2013, 05:31 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
One glaring problem with the K-5 is that it can't take pictures of objects coming towards it.
Something I've noticed too and curious to see if this got addressed with the k3...
10-14-2013, 07:30 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
Christine, I might have to add you to the ignore list so I don't drool while viewing your photos and rush out to buy one .
LOL

Believe it or not, I am going to hold out, at least till Christmas. Sony has great mid year and Xmas sales.

Last year, I bought a NEX6 the moment it was released. I got a great discount for it (I know people who know people etc.) but nothing compared to the Xmas pricing. Made me feel like a loser. I compensated by buying a few lenses at Xmas pricing :-)

Of course, if they offered a pink Hello Kitty launch special, I wont be able to resist. :-)
10-14-2013, 07:46 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by todd Quote
Something I've noticed too and curious to see if this got addressed with the k3...
Taking photos of subjects approaching the lens is something virtually no AF can do well.

Basically, the AF has to figure out the right object to focus on (in itself a challenge), determine the relative speed/movement between shots (assuming the photographer is shooting in burst mode), then prefocus the lens in front of the object in sync with the next shot, taking shutter lag into account.

What pro photographers do is not take a head on approaching shot, but shoot the subject moving partially sideways (which slows the relative z axis velocity component), and move the camera with the subject, to reduce the relative movement further still. This turns a difficult problem into a much simpler problem for the camera to work on. There are some who deliberately adjust the camera to slightly front focus, but I don't like that approach.

Once you figure out the right approach, it will work on any decent camera, and the K-5 is more than adequate.

Shots from the Sydney triahtlon, shot on K-5 with DA* 50-135:


10-14-2013, 07:55 PM   #29
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It is super ugly. I'm lucky I have no interest in ever owning a Sony product again after the strings of issues I've had with my home theater, ps3, and NEX5N. But the spec sheet looks good, I'm sure a lot of people will enjoy it.


I think the viewfinder hump helps it's looks. I think the square box mirror less is just ghastly ugly. One of the main reasons I originally looked at the em5 was because of how beautiful it is. Once I saw it's results I had to get one. I love that tthing.

When I first used it my wife asked if it was a digital version of my film camera (LX).... I wish

10-14-2013, 08:42 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Once you figure out the right approach, it will work on any decent camera, and the K-5 is more than adequate.
Thanks for this useful advice. I've had tracking issues with my NEX F3 and also my RX100, and to a degree (rodeo bull charging directly towards the camera in low-light etc) with the K-5 too. I need to practice shooting these kind of targets more, so your advice is useful.
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