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10-25-2013, 03:42 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by uhoh7 Quote
A7r is the best FF sensor on the planet today
Let's wait until it's DxoMark'd. It's probably a great sensor in general, but in some measurements - eg low-light (SNR) - it may not be the greatest even amongst FF.

10-25-2013, 12:30 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Because the vast majority of Pentax users want full frame? Too funny. The vast majority of Nikon users don't want full frame (or they'd stop buying all those APS_c cameras) , the vast majority of Canon users don't want full frame (or they'd buy one) , but the vast majority of Pentax users do? OK , I'll bite, why is that? Why are Pentax users sodiffernt than the users of every camera company that actually make a full frame?


.

Well to be fair there is a large portion of Nikon or Canon users who don't even know what FF is. Meaning they are in the market to purchase a DSLR based on money which means APS_C will be the default cameras.
10-25-2013, 03:43 PM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by richmondthefish Quote
Meaning they are in the market to purchase a DSLR based on money
Indeed.

For the average DSLR buyer the technical difference between a 24MP FF and a 24 MP APS-C might be hard to understand. So if the 24MP FF is $2000 and the 24MP APS-C is $600 (eg with Nikon), the FF will usually be a hard sell.
10-26-2013, 09:02 PM   #94
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Reality check for those who want to use RF lenses the A7.
Sony a7 camera with rangefinder lenses - a set on Flickr

DSLR lenses should fare better though, but it does suggest one to be cautious, esp wrt short flange distance lenses (eg. native UWA/WA lenses (other than the expensive Zeiss) )
I'd suspect that in order to get over this, the native lenses will basically have to 'add back' the flange distance and/or have an image circle that is bigger, all resulting in a 'back to square one' situation wrt lens size.

10-26-2013, 10:02 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Reality check for those who want to use RF lenses the A7.
Sony a7 camera with rangefinder lenses - a set on Flickr
That happens with Leica bodies too. Leica corrects for it by firmware - but only for Leica lenses with the 6 bit coding. That's why the Zeiss 21mm has colour cast problems on Leica bodies - it's not a lens Leica corrects for.

Potentially this can also be done in post processing on the A7.

The A7r has the microlenses optimised for E mount so should be better but no definitive results yet.
10-29-2013, 12:40 AM   #96
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Kirk Tuck weighs in his impressions of the A7.
Seems like he keeps mentioning Pentax often after getting a K01.
11-02-2013, 04:30 AM - 1 Like   #97
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Very rarely do I read this forum, full as it is with Pentax apologists, instead of photographers who happen to use Pentax gear. And rarer still do I bother commenting. But this thread is simply ridiculous.

Sony has stepped up to the plate and released a full-frame camera cheaper and more portable than all the others, with compatibility with lenses from all major systems, video features that Pentax are unlikely to ever match (this is the Sony legacy, after all), weather-sealing, excellent usability (from all reports), focus peaking, thorough interface customisation, Wi-Fi and smart phone communication, and tethering.

And all some people can do is moan. The envy is thick in the air.

Yes, many people do not require the superior quality of full-frame over APS-C. That would be me too, most of the time. In fact I am generally quite content with my five MFT cameras. I don't pretend they take better pictures than a larger sensor, however. I am not so ignorant as to dismiss larger sensors as irrelevant or useless, merely because a minority of people can appreciate or need them.

Yes, some people might prefer to have the camera focus for them, even with off-brand lenses. These people might be happy to know that, besides A and E-mount, Canon EF lenses will auto-focus and communicate fully to the Sony bodies with the correct Metabones adapter. This is unlikely to be the case for our lovely Pentax FF lenses, because Pentax has never sold but a fraction of the big boys. But perhaps lobbying Metabones might help?

Yes, some people might wish to use lenses designed for a completely different camera system (Leica M for rangefinder) with absolutely no compromises. But... well, that would be gravy.

Yes, some of us might prefer IBIS. In fact this is the one important feature missing from this camera, though I don't think anyone has mentioned it!

Despite all possible limitations, the Sony A7 and A7R are going to find many takers, no doubt. I will be keeping an eye on this system as a less expensive way into architectural photography. There are many other applications!

Photographers look at what a system can do, and see if it matches their needs. Fanboys look at what a system cannot do and then roast it if it doesn't have the correct emblem on the housing. (Or explain away the deficiency, if it does.)

Many of the same Pentaxians who deride this system would be drooling if it had the name Pentax on it.

Pretty sad.

11-02-2013, 10:05 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Yes, some of us might prefer IBIS. In fact this is the one important feature missing from this camera, though I don't think anyone has mentioned it!
I generally agree with your post......and was also noting the lack of mention of IBIS, which I consider more important than FF by far for my particular needs. In fact, I believe that the majority of FF squealers have no real need for a FF camera at all, I certainly don't. It's sort of like someone squealing for 500 horsepower when they don't even have a drivers license yet...if you know what I mean!
Regards!
11-03-2013, 02:11 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Yes, some of us might prefer IBIS. In fact this is the one important feature missing from this camera, though I don't think anyone has mentioned it!
The best part of IBIS is that you can turn it off. I only use it in hand held shots when there's lots and lots of light, so I can use very high shutter speeds. If you pixelpeep close enough you'll see that IBIS reduces IQ in many occasions.


QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Many of the same Pentaxians who deride this system would be drooling if it had the name Pentax on it.

Pretty sad.
How true. Those fanboys are not afraid of showing their sour grapes.
11-03-2013, 05:18 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Very rarely do I read this forum, full as it is with Pentax apologists, instead of photographers who happen to use Pentax gear. And rarer still do I bother commenting. But this thread is simply ridiculous.

Sony has stepped up to the plate and released a full-frame camera cheaper and more portable than all the others, with compatibility with lenses from all major systems, video features that Pentax are unlikely to ever match (this is the Sony legacy, after all), weather-sealing, excellent usability (from all reports), focus peaking, thorough interface customisation, Wi-Fi and smart phone communication, and tethering.

And all some people can do is moan. The envy is thick in the air.

Yes, many people do not require the superior quality of full-frame over APS-C. That would be me too, most of the time. In fact I am generally quite content with my five MFT cameras. I don't pretend they take better pictures than a larger sensor, however. I am not so ignorant as to dismiss larger sensors as irrelevant or useless, merely because a minority of people can appreciate or need them.

Yes, some people might prefer to have the camera focus for them, even with off-brand lenses. These people might be happy to know that, besides A and E-mount, Canon EF lenses will auto-focus and communicate fully to the Sony bodies with the correct Metabones adapter. This is unlikely to be the case for our lovely Pentax FF lenses, because Pentax has never sold but a fraction of the big boys. But perhaps lobbying Metabones might help?

Yes, some people might wish to use lenses designed for a completely different camera system (Leica M for rangefinder) with absolutely no compromises. But... well, that would be gravy.

Yes, some of us might prefer IBIS. In fact this is the one important feature missing from this camera, though I don't think anyone has mentioned it!

Despite all possible limitations, the Sony A7 and A7R are going to find many takers, no doubt. I will be keeping an eye on this system as a less expensive way into architectural photography. There are many other applications!

Photographers look at what a system can do, and see if it matches their needs. Fanboys look at what a system cannot do and then roast it if it doesn't have the correct emblem on the housing. (Or explain away the deficiency, if it does.)

Many of the same Pentaxians who deride this system would be drooling if it had the name Pentax on it.

Pretty sad.
Best post I've ever read on these forums.

I too am sick of reading the sheer negativity and obvious envy of a product that is really pushing camera design in an innovative way. Instead, it's being rubbished across camera forums by idiots who say things like "MY THIRTY YEAR OLD NON-SONY LENSES THAT WERE NEVER DESIGNED FOR THIS WON'T WORK!", or by people who will never, ever purchase a Sony camera and make sweeping judgments and decisions on a product they know nothing about.

I'm bored of it. For me, I stay off camera forums mostly because I end up hating photography because of the obsession and fanboyism that ruins the art.
11-03-2013, 05:53 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Big G Quote
Best post I've ever read on these forums.

I too am sick of reading the sheer negativity and obvious envy of a product that is really pushing camera design in an innovative way. Instead, it's being rubbished across camera forums by idiots who say things like "MY THIRTY YEAR OLD NON-SONY LENSES THAT WERE NEVER DESIGNED FOR THIS WON'T WORK!", or by people who will never, ever purchase a Sony camera and make sweeping judgments and decisions on a product they know nothing about.

I'm bored of it. For me, I stay off camera forums mostly because I end up hating photography because of the obsession and fanboyism that ruins the art.
I'm sure that most of the people who purchase an A7 will do so to make great art.

Opinions vary. The thing is that folks on the Pentax forum tend to be older, tend to have a lot of accumulated Pentax gear and are looking for a specific type of camera to use it on. That camera would use K mount lenses without adapter, with auto focus and with an OVF, not an EVF. Megapixels actually aren't particularly a concern for a lot of these folks and they would be completely satisfied with a D700 with a k mount. Clearly that isn't what you get with an A7.

I don't understand why a variety of opinions bothers you. It is why Sony hasn't passed Nikon/Canon yet, despite making surpassingly excellent cameras and lenses (in the eyes of some people).
11-03-2013, 05:56 AM   #102
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A variety of opinion does not bother me.
12-31-2013, 05:10 AM - 1 Like   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Big G Quote
Best post I've ever read on these forums.

I too am sick of reading the sheer negativity and obvious envy of a product that is really pushing camera design in an innovative way. Instead, it's being rubbished across camera forums by idiots who say things like "MY THIRTY YEAR OLD NON-SONY LENSES THAT WERE NEVER DESIGNED FOR THIS WON'T WORK!", or by people who will never, ever purchase a Sony camera and make sweeping judgments and decisions on a product they know nothing about.

I'm bored of it. For me, I stay off camera forums mostly because I end up hating photography because of the obsession and fanboyism that ruins the art.
Thanks for your support (and that from others), which I only now read since, like you, I stay away from the forums except for rare occasions. I used to be a constant contributor (over 8000 posts!) but the tone has changed a lot. I now find it quite poisonous.

I have little time for fanaticism of any stripe. I sang the praises of Pentax, bought several of their cameras, plus a fortune of lenses. Converted many people to Pentax since, for an inexpensive SLR, they were a bargain. Some might well have taken me for a fanboy, since I was certainly enthusiastic! The difference is that I was not blind to Pentax faults, few of which ever seemed to get fixed. (Crippled mount, ahem.)

I even posted about how a camera without a mirror might be a darned good idea.

After using a mirrorless camera (Olympus E-P1) there was no looking back. It was obvious this was the way forward, though I waited until the viewfinders sealed the deal. The experience is so much nicer: all the information in the EVF, ability to zoom for focus, etc. These are not glossy marketing features; they help me take better photos and enjoy myself more in the process. The main advantage of Pentax (size, weight, lens quality, SR) are doubled in Olympus MFT.

Plus I could continue to use my excellent Pentax lenses. Though now the large ecosystem of glass has removed the need.

In the intervening years Pentax have largely sat still, with only incremental improvements and quite a few price increases. The latest Limited lens releases show that Ricoh is happy to continue this trend. The brand has little to offer over the competition at this point. Those pushing forward into new territory (Sony included) illustrate this by contrast.

Last edited by rparmar; 12-31-2013 at 05:16 AM.
12-31-2013, 05:56 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Thanks for your support (and that from others), which I only now read since, like you, I stay away from the forums except for rare occasions. I used to be a constant contributor (over 8000 posts!) but the tone has changed a lot. I now find it quite poisonous.

I have little time for fanaticism of any stripe. I sang the praises of Pentax, bought several of their cameras, plus a fortune of lenses. Converted many people to Pentax since, for an inexpensive SLR, they were a bargain. Some might well have taken me for a fanboy, since I was certainly enthusiastic! The difference is that I was not blind to Pentax faults, few of which ever seemed to get fixed. (Crippled mount, ahem.)

I even posted about how a camera without a mirror might be a darned good idea.

After using a mirrorless camera (Olympus E-P1) there was no looking back. It was obvious this was the way forward, though I waited until the viewfinders sealed the deal. The experience is so much nicer: all the information in the EVF, ability to zoom for focus, etc. These are not glossy marketing features; they help me take better photos and enjoy myself more in the process. The main advantage of Pentax (size, weight, lens quality, SR) are doubled in Olympus MFT.

Plus I could continue to use my excellent Pentax lenses. Though now the large ecosystem of glass has removed the need.

In the intervening years Pentax have largely sat still, with only incremental improvements and quite a few price increases. The latest Limited lens releases show that Ricoh is happy to continue this trend. The brand has little to offer over the competition at this point. Those pushing forward into new territory (Sony included) illustrate this by contrast.
Some fantastic posts here that put everything back into perspective. I've never held a more solid feeling camera in my hands then the Sony A7r. You can actually feel it's a whole lot of camera packed into a tiny sturdy package. Sony is making giant leaps forward in technology, quality and price. No wonder there is envy. Perfectly understandable.
12-31-2013, 06:39 AM   #105
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I think good things on A7.
I loved its compactness.

Pentax, you are running out of time.
I am on the way to change the system, so please be hurry.
All I need is a compact ff which is a piece of cake for you.
I have been waiting for 4 years, and I dont want to wait anymore.
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