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10-16-2013, 05:45 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
I actually hope Pentax answers with a mirrorless FF that takes the drawbacks of these A7's and beats the living crap out of them.

lets see:
1/160" flash sync. okay Pentax, lets go with 1/320"
4fps? why not get 8-10 just for fun
350 shots per battery? thats embarrassing
only charges though USB cable? wtf?!

so if Pentax can address those and build a much more attractive body in a similar form factor with a best in class EVF and undercut them a $100 or so they can take Sony and tell them what for.
Anyone can do that, but they don't. They could go all leaf shutter too, like the Q(hello expensive lenses), and sync at whatever. 350 shots might be close to the limit for the form factor, especially for a camera with EVF and LCD. I think adding 2 batteries in the grip is more feasible. I suppose they could stick an LI90 in the camera without making it too much bigger, but Pentax isn't known for battery life. I am not quite sure why the A7R is limited to 4 FPS, maybe it's a buffer consideration only. The shutter should be the same as in the faster A7. Larger shutters are simply slower, however. They could add an electronic shutter option. A cheap charger can be purchased, but I addressed that on another thread (Pressure from EU to reduce proprietary chargers).

10-16-2013, 05:51 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
Anyone can do that, but they don't. They could go all leaf shutter too, like the Q(hello expensive lenses), and sync at whatever. 350 shots might be close to the limit for the form factor, especially for a camera with EVF and LCD. I think adding 2 batteries in the grip is more feasible. I suppose they could stick an LI90 in the camera without making it too much bigger, but Pentax isn't known for battery life. I am not quite sure why the A7R is limited to 4 FPS, maybe it's a buffer consideration only. The shutter should be the same as in the faster A7. Larger shutters are simply slower, however. They could add an electronic shutter option. A cheap charger can be purchased, but I addressed that on another thread (Pressure from EU to reduce proprietary chargers).
fair enough, I suppose with EVF and a power hungry FF sensor your going to get less shots. I average 450 a charge with my EM5, so I guess 350 isn't unreasonable. the battery size is small though. I'm surprised that Sony of all people didn't go with an electronic shutter. Seems like a no brainer to me. I think the 4FPS is a limit of the processing engine.

Speaking of shutter, I hear you can't hold a conversation over how loud that thing is.

one thing I do like is the Exposure compensation dial.
10-16-2013, 06:10 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
I actually hope Pentax answers with a mirrorless FF that takes the drawbacks of these A7's and beats the living crap out of them.

lets see:
1/160" flash sync. okay Pentax, lets go with 1/320"
4fps? why not get 8-10 just for fun
350 shots per battery? thats embarrassing
only charges though USB cable? wtf?!

so if Pentax can address those and build a much more attractive body in a similar form factor with a best in class EVF and undercut them a $100 or so they can take Sony and tell them what for.
Who will supply Pentax the full frame sensor ? The 36MP Nikon D800E has the same 4FPS maximum. BTW you could get third party batteries and external chargers at very low cost for the A7 cameras.
10-16-2013, 06:17 PM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
BTW you could get third party batteries and external chargers at very low cost for the A7 cameras.
+1000

People....It is not hard to carry batteries in your pocket, We used to do the same with rolls of film......

10-16-2013, 06:19 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
fair enough, I suppose with EVF and a power hungry FF sensor your going to get less shots. I average 450 a charge with my EM5, so I guess 350 isn't unreasonable. the battery size is small though. I'm surprised that Sony of all people didn't go with an electronic shutter. Seems like a no brainer to me. I think the 4FPS is a limit of the processing engine.

Speaking of shutter, I hear you can't hold a conversation over how loud that thing is.

one thing I do like is the Exposure compensation dial.
I believe electronic shutters are all software, but there might be more to it. The Q's electronic shutter suffers from the jelly effect, where it has trouble reading the whole image in the allotted time, and they might have the same processing limitations. A loud shutter is a cost cutting step. I think that's a bad decision. They could have charged $50 more for the camera and not lost many sales. There are certain times where loud isn't acceptable. I remember using screw drive lenses with my K-r, that was embarrassing. An electronic shutter option would have allowed them to use a loud, cheap, shutter and still provided a silent option. I am really jealous of the exposure dial, that's one of my favorites.
10-16-2013, 06:20 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Corto-PA Quote
+1000

People....It is not hard to carry batteries in your pocket, We used to do the same with rolls of film......
Says the wedding photog in the middle of a ceremony . I agree that it's a specialized case. It wouldn't stop me from buying the camera. These batteries are tiny.
10-16-2013, 07:58 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
BTW you could get third party batteries and external chargers at very low cost for the A7 cameras.
i have no problem with additional batteries, I got 3 third party batteries for my K5. But the big thing is, why should you have to buy an charger for an arguably professional grade product?

10-16-2013, 08:03 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
i have no problem with additional batteries, I got 3 third party batteries for my K5. But the big thing is, why should you have to buy an charger for an arguably professional grade product?

The big thing is, If you cant afford the charger dont buy the Camera.
10-16-2013, 08:38 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Corto-PA Quote
The big thing is, If you cant afford the charger dont buy the Camera.
thats not the answer either in my opinion. It's an "accessory" that should be included. There are things I expect when I open the box for a new camera... strap, body cap, charger, battery. It shouldn't matter that I can order an ebay special charger for $10 because the manufacture is looking to cut costs. The fact of the matter is, EU pressure or not, Sony would sell this camera for $2000 with or without all the basics. By not giving you a DC charger they are saving themselves $5 per camera (a number out of my butt), and after 100 cameras they just saved $500 and earned that in extra profit. Add that up over 20,000 units and more....Meanwhile many, probably most, customers will buy the Sony OEM charger $50. Even more cash they are earning for something they should have included in the first place.

Then there are the issues with third party goods, they are just never as good as OEM. My Pentax K5 batteries give me 500 frames, thats considerably less than OEM. Sure they only cost me $10, so I'm not worried. I even got one that won't accept a charge no more. What about the odd third party charger that melts itself?


I'm not going to be buying this camera either way, not in the foreseeable future, my photography roadmap/budget won't allow me to tinker like it did a year ago other wise I would be more interested in this for the same reason everyone else is.. FA limited glass on FF digital without optical corrections/modifications and with proper FOV. I just know that if I looked at the look of accessories for the Nikon D600 or Pentax K3, or Canon 6D and noticed that "charger not included" was written on it... I'd be choked. Especially because if I'm excited about the product I don't want to charge my camera through slow trickle charging USB, I want "fast charge" DC, and I want it now! So, OEM charger I would be buying, fuming because the OEM just bent me over and gave it to me.



I know it's simple to say "just get the ebay one" but it comes down to... why should I have to buy a charger in the first place?


Petty, I know.
10-16-2013, 09:20 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
thats not the answer either in my opinion. It's an "accessory" that should be included. There are things I expect when I open the box for a new camera... strap, body cap, charger, battery. It shouldn't matter that I can order an ebay special charger for $10 because the manufacture is looking to cut costs. The fact of the matter is, EU pressure or not, Sony would sell this camera for $2000 with or without all the basics. By not giving you a DC charger they are saving themselves $5 per camera (a number out of my butt), and after 100 cameras they just saved $500 and earned that in extra profit. Add that up over 20,000 units and more....Meanwhile many, probably most, customers will buy the Sony OEM charger $50. Even more cash they are earning for something they should have included in the first place.

Then there are the issues with third party goods, they are just never as good as OEM. My Pentax K5 batteries give me 500 frames, thats considerably less than OEM. Sure they only cost me $10, so I'm not worried. I even got one that won't accept a charge no more. What about the odd third party charger that melts itself?


I'm not going to be buying this camera either way, not in the foreseeable future, my photography roadmap/budget won't allow me to tinker like it did a year ago other wise I would be more interested in this for the same reason everyone else is.. FA limited glass on FF digital without optical corrections/modifications and with proper FOV. I just know that if I looked at the look of accessories for the Nikon D600 or Pentax K3, or Canon 6D and noticed that "charger not included" was written on it... I'd be choked. Especially because if I'm excited about the product I don't want to charge my camera through slow trickle charging USB, I want "fast charge" DC, and I want it now! So, OEM charger I would be buying, fuming because the OEM just bent me over and gave it to me.



I know it's simple to say "just get the ebay one" but it comes down to... why should I have to buy a charger in the first place?


Petty, I know.
Not Petty, But Cameras are either tools or luxury items. Like high end Fire arms I expect to add something to the initial cost to make it worth while.
10-16-2013, 10:10 PM   #26
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Look at that Sony A7 with a Pentax lens mounted on it...
Very Tempting...
10-17-2013, 04:46 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
i have no problem with additional batteries, I got 3 third party batteries for my K5. But the big thing is, why should you have to buy an charger for an arguably professional grade product?
So stick with your K-5 if that is a problem for you but most people use the charge cable or get low cost 3rd party battery/charger kits.
10-17-2013, 05:17 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Corto-PA Quote
Not Petty, But Cameras are either tools or luxury items. Like high end Fire arms I expect to add something to the initial cost to make it worth while.
But if you bought a high end Fire arm and they didn't include the bolt?

10-17-2013, 05:22 AM   #29
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I know it's like I'm blowing it up more than it needs too... but I asked some normal people... or I was asked I should say. a friend at work saw this camera on Engadget and was asking me about it. I told him the specs look good and on paper it could be a fantastic camera. I then told him no battery charger, got to charge through usb, or buy a charger. He didn't like that idea either...and he is an average consumer.

I'm actually surprised Sony didn't do what Nikon did and chip the batteries so you can only use first party stuff.

10-17-2013, 07:53 AM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
I'm actually surprised Sony didn't do what Nikon did and chip the batteries so you can only use first party stuff.
I know, who dropped that ball. Usually sony is the first manufacturer to strap to into their proprietary systems like a dominatrix ...I think I'll stop right there.
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