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10-19-2013, 08:27 AM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The Sony CZ glass is price in line with the Pentax FA LTD glass. If it performs as well then it will probably sell better. I realize no Pentax apologist will admit any lens from any company can be as good as a FA LTD, but there are a lot (most) other buyers don't agree.
Pretty hard to compare, isn't it? The closest focal lengths seem to be the FA 43, which currently retails for about 600 (and seems too expensive to me that price) and the Zeiss 50mm f1.4 which is at 1500, the FA 77 currently sells for 1000 and the Sony CZ 85mm f1.4 sells for 1700. These are clearly apples and oranges comparisons, but there is no doubt that Sony's CZ glass is a little rich for me...

10-19-2013, 08:43 AM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Pretty hard to compare, isn't it? The closest focal lengths seem to be the FA 43, which currently retails for about 600 (and seems too expensive to me that price) and the Zeiss 50mm f1.4 which is at 1500, the FA 77 currently sells for 1000 and the Sony CZ 85mm f1.4 sells for 1700. These are clearly apples and oranges comparisons, but there is no doubt that Sony's CZ glass is a little rich for me...
The CZ 55mm F/1.8 is priced in line with the 31mm F/1.8 and the 77mm F/1.8, except the CZ has modern AF, weather sealing, & coatings.
10-19-2013, 08:55 AM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The CZ 55mm F/1.8 is priced in line with the 31mm F/1.8 and the 77mm F/1.8, except the CZ has modern AF, weather sealing, & coatings.
Interesting. The lens I would have compared it to would be the DA *55, which has all the things you mentioned and is a stop faster for 600 dollars.
10-19-2013, 08:59 AM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Interesting. The lens I would have compared it to would be the DA *55, which has all the things you mentioned and is a stop faster for 600 dollars.
Except the DA* is and APS-C and the CZ is a FF lens.

10-19-2013, 09:13 AM   #110
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Maybe this could help? Some bashing over there too.

Personally, it simply is a Sony. That's a no-no for me thanks to my personal experience with the brand.
10-19-2013, 09:21 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
But why would they? Sony is about the only company out there right now that prices glass in such a way as to make Pentax lenses look like a steal. Certainly they aren't going to want to increase k mount sales at the price of their own lenses.
I don't think either one makes the other look better, both are overpriced.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The CZ 55mm F/1.8 is priced in line with the 31mm F/1.8 and the 77mm F/1.8, except the CZ has modern AF, weather sealing, & coatings.
They are also made in Japan from what I can tell, which will mean something to some people. Users of other systems still scoff at a 1.8 lens being so pricey though, regardless if it says zeiss or limited on it.

The prices of the bodies, especially the A7R seem only artificially low. The price of entry for the A7R is basically body + $800 or $1000 or $1200 lens, making it much less of a value proposition than it first appears. Then again maybe these lenses simply perform really really well...
10-19-2013, 10:04 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Indeed.
Maybe that's the reason Sony is not interested in K-mount users buying the A7.

As seen on one of the ads for a local camera store (CameraPro) offering pre-orders of the A7:

So no Pentax love from Sony, despite all the Sony love from some Pentaxians. Maybe there are technical reasons for this.
Metabones doesn't make an adapter for Pentax, so they can't offer it. Those adapters have nothing to do with Sony...

10-19-2013, 10:17 AM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Except the DA* is and APS-C and the CZ is a FF lens.
Negatory. While Pentax does not have a full frame camera, the DA *lens has been tested and is full frame compatible -- there is no reason for it to be otherwise.
10-19-2013, 10:19 AM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by azimuthal Quote
I don't think either one makes the other look better, both are overpriced.


They are also made in Japan from what I can tell, which will mean something to some people. Users of other systems still scoff at a 1.8 lens being so pricey though, regardless if it says zeiss or limited on it.

The prices of the bodies, especially the A7R seem only artificially low. The price of entry for the A7R is basically body + $800 or $1000 or $1200 lens, making it much less of a value proposition than it first appears. Then again maybe these lenses simply perform really really well...
I have four fast F1.4 full frame lenses for my full frame Sony NEX-VG900 ( 24mm F1.4, 35mm F1.4, 50mm F1.4, 85mm F1.4) along with FF 15mm F2.8 , 300mm F4 and none of them cost over $450. It's amazing how people on here that hate Sony cherry pick the most costly lenses . How about the 25mm wide angle for the Pentax 645D that costs $5,000 or the 135mm F1.8 Pentax that came out in 1984 and sold for $3,159.09 ! Is it twice as good as the Sony 135mm f/1.8 Carl Zeiss T* ?
SMC Pentax-DA 645 25mm F4 AL [IF] SDM AW Reviews - 645 Wide-Angle Primes - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database
Pentax SMC A 135mm 1 1 8 Lens | eBay
10-19-2013, 10:56 AM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Negatory. While Pentax does not have a full frame camera, the DA *lens has been tested and is full frame compatible -- there is no reason for it to be otherwise.
Show me some pictures of the DA* 55mm on a FF digital at F/1.4.

I know people have used it on film, but film is much more forgiving than a 36MP FF sensor.
10-19-2013, 11:44 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
I plan on getting the Zeiss Vario-Tessar T* FE 24-70mm F4 ZA OSS for my full frame NEX-VG900 that is a good price for $1,198 since it's a great Zeiss super wide-telephoto full frame zoom that is weather sealed.

The reason i quoted jogiba is - i think its a basis for a good strategy for not investing a ton of money in FF auto lenses.

A. Buy one FF AF normal zoom lens at about $1000 level.

B. Buy manual lenses for everything else. I already have 3 macro lenses that i've been using on my Nex - costs me nothing to start using them on the A7 were i to buy it.

Another strategy might be:
A. Use a Sony crop kit lens for 18-55. Maybe also the 50-210 zoom. These lenses are going to look good with the additional resolution 24mp or 36mp FF sensors.

B. Use FF manual lenses which will allow higher shutter speeds with lower iso than using these manual lenses on a crop body.

Strategies like this might help one to evaluate whether they are going to like an A7 long term, without pouring a ton of money into FF AF native lenses. They still will benefit from the increased usability of more buttons, less menu diving of the A7.

Maybe Kunzite is right and a FF Pentax will arrive before Christmas. I wouldn't buy any camera before the holidays in any case.
10-19-2013, 11:59 AM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Maybe Kunzite is right and a FF Pentax will arrive before Christmas. I wouldn't buy any camera before the holidays in any case.
Wait, I haven't said anything about Pentax announcing a FF camera before this Christmas! Way too soon after the K-3.

But next year there's CP+, and then Photokina. It is my belief - not entirely unfounded - that we'll see interesting things there.
10-19-2013, 12:37 PM   #118
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There doesn't have to be a secret cabal.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I wish someone would post a copy of this mysterious "exclusivity" agreement that Nikon has with Sony. I have never seen anything other than speculation about this.

.
There has never been anything but speculation on this. Most of the delays between models from different manufacturers that use the same sensor can be attributed to product lifecycles and timings within each company, or to those companies' wish to make a half-jump over a competitor's model without stepping on sales of their existing models. People attribute the 'delays' caused by these strategies to some phantom secret agreement between Nikon and Sony.

I think the most likely way Nikon affects Sony is capacity. If Nikon has ordered X sensors over Y months, and Sony Semiconductor only has capacity to produce X * 1.2 over that time - then If someone orders the same basic sensor (including Sony Imaging,) but a third or half as many as Nikon, Sony Semiconductor may not have capacity to meet the order right away. There doesn't have to be a secret cabal. But I doubt it's even capacity (see: D7000 & K5 simultaneous release,) I think it's mostly just product timings and readiness - a camera is more than just a sensor, and there are development dependencies through the whole design chain.

.
10-19-2013, 01:14 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Show me some pictures of the DA* 55mm on a FF digital at F/1.4.

I know people have used it on film, but film is much more forgiving than a 36MP FF sensor.
I am going based on Falk's DA lens on film thread. I don't know what benefit Pentax would have had in making the 55 APS-C only. There would have been almost difference in size or cost since they kept the K mount. Just compare size of this lens to the FA 50 f1.4.

Anyway, I am fine if you want to believe that Sony's 55mm f1.8 is a great deal for what would be considered in most other systems to be a slower normal lens. And I thought the DA *55 was high priced at 600 dollars...
10-19-2013, 01:56 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
Metabones doesn't make an adapter for Pentax, so they can't offer it.
Aha. Thanks for that info. I didn't look up the Metabones catalogue.

Now that I have, it's weird they don't do K-mount to NEX, considering they do obscure stuff like ALPA and C mount to NEX. Looks like eBay sourced adapters will be the go for using K lenses on the A7.
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