[Parry]

These aren't cameras, they're toys.

Nikon's real cameras still seem to be on a four year cycle. D800, D4 etc.

[Frogfish]

Phil. As neither Canon nor Nikon have brought out APS-C cameras that would really challenge their FF line-up (why would they) as neither the '7DmkII' nor the 'D400' are yet to make an appearance (and neither the K5 line nor Oly EM are any real concern) then it is not a case of APS sales denting FF ranks. Indeed the 5DIII, D600(610), D800 and E plus D4 and 1DX are all doing very well thank you very much. New FF lenses from Sigma and Zeiss are exciting and Nikon & Canon keep promising more to come too, if there was any concern/plans at all, re. slowing FF sales, then I would think the flow of new lenses would definitely be canned first.

Nikon however have not supported the APS-C via their lens lineup and the reticence of both Canon and Nikon to bring out APS-C flagships (though I think both the 7DII and D400 will eventually make a delayed appearance) may have something to do with waning importance of that sensor size now that full frame sensor prices keep dropping.

[Parry]

Phil. As neither Canon nor Nikon have brought out APS-C cameras that would really challenge their FF line-up (why would they) as neither the '7DmkII' nor the 'D400' are yet to make an appearance (and neither the K5 line nor Oly EM are any real concern) then it is not a case of APS sales denting FF ranks. Indeed the 5DIII, D600(610), D800 and E plus D4 and 1DX are all doing very well thank you very much. New FF lenses from Sigma and Zeiss are exciting and Nikon & Canon keep promising more to come too, if there was any concern/plans at all, re. slowing FF sales, then I would think the flow of new lenses would definitely be canned first.

Nikon however have not supported the APS-C via their lens lineup and the reticence of both Canon and Nikon to bring out APS-C flagships (though I think both the 7DII and D400 will eventually make a delayed appearance) may have something to do with waning importance of that sensor size now that full frame sensor prices keep dropping.

The Siggy Art's are very exciting on FF. And not expensive. The new 50/1.4 Art is aimed at technically competing with the Zeiss Outs apparently, we'll see.

Zeiss 135/2, the new one, is also pretty stunning on these sensors. But £1700. Quite a lot really.

[rbefly]

I'm not so clear on it. The K-5/K-30/K-5II/K-50... I don't feel like there was/is a clear difference in price/features.

You're right, ELJamoquio, I should have used 'The k-5 family' to include the classic model. But whether you compare the older lineup of bodies, or the selection as it appears now, it's pretty much the usual cropped-format, three or four-tier selection. Same as Canon and Nikon, but a much smaller and slower pace. The usual $500 (kit) starter, which is now the K-500, the mid-range-and featured $700-$900 upgrade K30/50 (that C & N can afford to have variants of), and the $1200-$2000 flagship (again, N & C have more).
Now, the K-3 has all but replaced the K-5, once the remaining K-5IIs' go, we're back to 3-tier, K-3, K-50, K-500. There could be confusion during this transition period, but it's settling down again.
I don't mind that the new flagship has a different series number, in fact it seems right to me. This isn't a K-5 upgrade by any measure, it's a new camera. The baby 'fives' were born during the K-5's reign but just before the K-3 introduction, they're nearly as new. I see clear model/market/price divisions, which hasn't always been the case.
JMO,
Ron

[Rondec]

Phil. As neither Canon nor Nikon have brought out APS-C cameras that would really challenge their FF line-up (why would they) as neither the '7DmkII' nor the 'D400' are yet to make an appearance (and neither the K5 line nor Oly EM are any real concern) then it is not a case of APS sales denting FF ranks. Indeed the 5DIII, D600(610), D800 and E plus D4 and 1DX are all doing very well thank you very much. New FF lenses from Sigma and Zeiss are exciting and Nikon & Canon keep promising more to come too, if there was any concern/plans at all, re. slowing FF sales, then I would think the flow of new lenses would definitely be canned first.

Nikon however have not supported the APS-C via their lens lineup and the reticence of both Canon and Nikon to bring out APS-C flagships (though I think both the 7DII and D400 will eventually make a delayed appearance) may have something to do with waning importance of that sensor size now that full frame sensor prices keep dropping.

I wonder. Nikon and Canon have hitched their wagon to full frame SLRs. That is what they make and that is what they will continue to make until such time as the market dries up. I think the D7100 is the best they can make APS-C in that situation. No D400. Maybe no 7D Mk II (hard to say for sure -- there isn't really a new APS-C sensor from Canon and that would need to come first).

As to whether or not Pentax can make in roads with the K3 or, Sony with the A7 remains to be seen, but certainly there is an opportunity there if Nikon and Canon decide to continue to make what they have always made and fight any changes to the traditional SLR market.

[Frogfish]

I wonder. Nikon and Canon have hitched their wagon to full frame SLRs. That is what they make and that is what they will continue to make until such time as the market dries up. I think the D7100 is the best they can make APS-C in that situation. No D400. Maybe no 7D Mk II (hard to say for sure -- there isn't really a new APS-C sensor from Canon and that would need to come first).

All they need to do to improve on the D7100 is solve the cache bus throughput issue. I think it will happen (D300s-like controls, same AF as the D7100 (which is the D4 module), 8-9 fps and 24MP plus other desirables), the 7DII is now heavily rumoured to be announced in March. We'll see - heard this all before !

As to whether or not Pentax can make in roads with the K3 or, Sony with the A7 remains to be seen, but certainly there is an opportunity there if Nikon and Canon decide to continue to make what they have always made and fight any changes to the traditional SLR market.

Pentax/Sony can't really touch Canon/Nikon because of the Pro market / marketing and drip-down. Even when Pentax had a better camera (K5 vs 7100) it still didn't happen. Many people love the A7R but AF is still an issue. However Sony could BUY Nikon though

[Pepe Le Pew]

However Sony could BUY Nikon though

Which I doubt.......

[ElJamoquio]

Which I doubt.......

They bought Konica-Minolta, and use almost nothing of them now.

I agree, I don't think they need or want Nikon.

[Clavius]

They bought Konica-Minolta, and use almost nothing of them now.

I agree, I don't think they need or want Nikon.

Buying out a competitor is a valid way of eliminating competition. So... Why not buy Nikon? Of course, they may not see them as competition.

[bhairavp]

Isn't Nikon owned by Mitsubishi, also a large conglomerate?

[Pepe Le Pew]

Isn't Nikon owned by Mitsubishi, also a large conglomerate?

Dunno

[wildman]

Isn't Nikon owned by Mitsubishi, also a large conglomerate?

Yes.

Mitsubishi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[philbaum]

I wonder. Nikon and Canon have hitched their wagon to full frame SLRs. That is what they make and that is what they will continue to make until such time as the market dries up. I think the D7100 is the best they can make APS-C in that situation. No D400. Maybe no 7D Mk II (hard to say for sure -- there isn't really a new APS-C sensor from Canon and that would need to come first).

As to whether or not Pentax can make in roads with the K3 or, Sony with the A7 remains to be seen, but certainly there is an opportunity there if Nikon and Canon decide to continue to make what they have always made and fight any changes to the traditional SLR market.

I think Pentax and Sony might have the best opportunity at the moment to pick up a little market share. Here in the USA, the big box stores are an impediment to multiple camera makers - they like to carry a very few brands and make money on volume. Costco and Best Buy are probably the two biggest camera sellers in my regional area and neither of them carry Pentax or any FF cameras. FF was like 9% of ILC cameras in 2013 I believe. I've predicted in another thread that FF will grow to 15% in 2014, but most replies didn't think it was going to be that high. So for Nikon, its mostly going to be D5300 and D7100 sales. Sort of explains why on dpreview, K3 camera out on top as the aps dslr camera of the year, if i got the terminology right. Switchable AA filter with 3 options - no one has anything to touch that.

Anyway, i do what i recommend and bought a K3. Its my 4th Pentax dslr and is very impressive. Lo light AF is remarkable, even for a cynic like me. Resolution - pretty amazing too - haven't seen any moire yet but been using it less than 3 weeks. Have done 9 portraits with it so far, and 2 group shots, i use manual flashes/radio triggers and everything is working the way it should, customers are happy - thats what matters to me.

Biggest disappointment is not that big of a deal, but focus peaking in LV is only adequate, but its better on my older Sony Nex cameras. Almost like an afterthought on the K3. But the AF is so awesome - i forgive Ricoh - isn't that big of me

So i hope Ricoh picks up a little market share - camera technology is always more fun to read about when there are more players out there. Its almost like watching a tornado headed in our direction - all these dang little smart phone cams - like a bunch of wasps - don't they have no respect

[cali92rs]

These aren't cameras, they're toys.

It is nearly impossible to take a decent picture with a D5300

---------- Post added 02-14-14 at 02:24 PM ----------

Pentax/Sony can't really touch Canon/Nikon because of the Pro market / marketing and drip-down.

I don't know about that.
The problem is that Canon/Nikon are sooooo far ahead of Pentax and Pentax does not offer something different enough to make a dent.

Pentax does offer weather sealing...but not in all lenses. And soccer moms arent going to be taking out their DSLRs in rain anyway. Pros take out their DSLRs in all conditions, but the top Canikon glass is weathersealed too, so what is the incentive to switch?

Pentax is a great DSLR enthusiast brand, stuck between soccer mom and the pro market...but how big of a market is that?

[Pepe Le Pew]

but how big of a market is that?

Pretty big........