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10-18-2013, 05:08 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
She's cute, indeed.
Looking more carefully - what's that ugly blob she's holding in her hand?
The problem with the camera is right there in the picture, I think. The body is small, but the lens hung on it is quite large, for what it is: a 55mm f/1.8. There was no room with the E-mount for IBIS on a FF sensor (without clipping the corners) which has led to OIS that, in turn, has made for bigger lenses.

Of course, if you're happy with fully manual lenses via a manual adapter, then you can use whatever you like, which is almost bound to be smaller, comparing like with like. Many of us do that now with older Takumars etc via the M42/K adapter ring, but not many of us do it enough to justify spending that much money on a body we won't get full functionality from without an even greater outlay for, admittedly very good but, expensive glass.

I'm content to wait and see. I've said for some time that I believe a FF Pentax body is inevitable, but I find their APS-C bodies to be enough for most of my needs, at least for a while longer and probably more for many situations. YKMV (we don't have miles, here).


Last edited by RobA_Oz; 10-18-2013 at 12:27 PM.
10-18-2013, 12:02 PM   #32
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I will probably jump to the Pentax FF when they'll make it, ignoring the fact that I absolutely don't need it and my K-5IIs is a better camera than I am a photographer.
But when I'll do it, I'll want to use native lenses with full functionality, I'll want a well-balanced body, excellent handling and a good optical viewfinder. I'll want a Pentax camera, not a Sony.
The only thing is, I should hurry saving up the money.
10-18-2013, 06:38 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
That's like saying you don't like Mitsubishi, but prefer a Volkswagen with a Mitsubishi motor inside.

Secondly, cameras should be compared with the very same lens strapped in front of them and if possible, with the same setting too. And that's how I know for sure that my NEX + FA43 give so much better results then my K-5 + FA43. Same lens, same sensor, different camera body. The latter should be the explanation for the difference in results.

I just see a lot of people here in these threads that have invested lots in K-mount lenses, and can't or won't make the switch to a platform with full frame, be it Canon, Nikon, Sony or (in the near future) Fuji. That's proprietary for you. A much bigger ball and chain then proprietary batteries or cables.
I take it you don't know much about cars. Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying, and you're giving me the reason with yet another example. A Lotus Elise has a Toyota engine, say, a Camry. Is it the same car? Will it give you the same performance? Absolutely not, not in a million years. Take Ford's Duratec engine, used in the Mazda CX-9, Mazda 6, Ford F-150 and Ford Mustang [to name a few]. Same car? No. Same performance? No. Same use and target market? Nu-uh.

So yes, the same Sony sensor can be used in a Sony, a Nikon and a Pentax camera, and will most definitely be a better choice one or another. How? Could be user's preference, or the intended use for a certain type of camera.

Now, what you're saying is totally illogical because if you use the same sensor and same lens, then the RAW image will forcefully be the same. The JPEG on the other hand, would not, and the performance would not either -by performance I mean shutter lag, buffer size, burst rate, and the layout that allows the photographer to be more versatile and/or faster with the settings to get a shot, such as buttons, weather sealing, whatever the camera offers other than the sensor.

And regarding lenses, well, that's how it is with cameras, always has. But manufacturers use standards to give the user the freedom of choice. Sony never does that, be it with the Memory Sticks, the UMD discs, the chargers, the hot-shoes.. just google Sony's reputation in proprietary stuff and you'll see I'm not making this up.
10-18-2013, 06:41 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I will probably jump to the Pentax FF when they'll make it, ignoring the fact that I absolutely don't need it and my K-5IIs is a better camera than I am a photographer.
But when I'll do it, I'll want to use native lenses with full functionality, I'll want a well-balanced body, excellent handling and a good optical viewfinder. I'll want a Pentax camera, not a Sony.
The only thing is, I should hurry saving up the money.
Haha I'm with you. I dunno if I'll want the full-frame because by then I'll have the K-3 and the cameras I already have, so it might be too much, considering I'm by no means rich. Unless they make a "cheap" full frame camera, just a barebones, no bells and whistles version.

10-19-2013, 01:38 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Secondly, cameras should be compared with the very same lens strapped in front of them and if possible, with the same setting too. And that's how I know for sure that my NEX + FA43 give so much better results then my K-5 + FA43. Same lens, same sensor, different camera body. The latter should be the explanation for the difference in results.
QuoteOriginally posted by FoTom Quote
I take it you don't know much about cars. Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying, and you're giving me the reason with yet another example. A Lotus Elise has a Toyota engine, say, a Camry. Is it the same car? Will it give you the same performance? Absolutely not, not in a million years. Take Ford's Duratec engine, used in the Mazda CX-9, Mazda 6, Ford F-150 and Ford Mustang [to name a few]. Same car? No. Same performance? No. Same use and target market? Nu-uh.

So yes, the same Sony sensor can be used in a Sony, a Nikon and a Pentax camera, and will most definitely be a better choice one or another. How? Could be user's preference, or the intended use for a certain type of camera.
So you forgot the part about the tiny flimsy ilc that looks like a compact, with the same sensor, but outperforms the K-5 then? That performance difference is what made me decide not to preorder the K-3. And I was right to do it too, because I sure as hell am going to preorder this A7R with the 35mm.

No, I don't know much about cars. What I do know is that Volkswagen also builds engines for other brands. And they do make sure to keep the best versions only to themselves for use in their own cars. I can't imagine it being the other way round with camera sensors.


QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Now, what you're saying is totally illogical because if you use the same sensor and same lens, then the RAW image will forcefully be the same. The JPEG on the other hand, would not, and the performance would not either -by performance I mean shutter lag, buffer size, burst rate, and the layout that allows the photographer to be more versatile and/or faster with the settings to get a shot, such as buttons, weather sealing, whatever the camera offers other than the sensor.
Who shoots jpeg? Worse, who shoots jpeg to compare cameras?!
10-19-2013, 07:21 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
So you forgot the part about the tiny flimsy ilc that looks like a compact, with the same sensor, but outperforms the K-5 then? That performance difference is what made me decide not to preorder the K-3. And I was right to do it too, because I sure as hell am going to preorder this A7R with the 35mm.

No, I don't know much about cars. What I do know is that Volkswagen also builds engines for other brands. And they do make sure to keep the best versions only to themselves for use in their own cars. I can't imagine it being the other way round with camera sensors.



Who shoots jpeg? Worse, who shoots jpeg to compare cameras?!
No, I did not forget that. But many, many people will want a full-sized dSLR over a flimsy MILC, sometimes because of the weight/balance, sometimes because of the OVF.

You got it totally wrong with VW and cars in general dude, just read a little. A small heads-up: google the Bugatti Veyron, and then tell me again that VW keeps their best engines to themselves. And Audi. And SEAT. Please do that.

And who compares JPEGs? Apparently you, because if you actually, truly compared the same photo taken with the same lens on a different camera but with the very same sensor, the RAW data will be exactly the same. You have the hardware, try it and post it here. I'd do it myself but I don't have two cameras with the same sensor.
10-19-2013, 07:36 AM   #37
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Probably another Sony flop....

QuoteQuote:
As long as Pentax uses Sony sensors I don't think we'll ever see a large sensor mirrorless Pentax. I bet Pentax and Sony signed a do-not-compete agreement. Sony will provide Pentax sensors as long as Pentax doesn't tread on Sony's mirror less-only camera lineup.
Where did they get the sensor for the K-01?

K-02 FF all the way baby. If you're going ot have an electronic image, make it large. there's absolutely no reason to be peaking into some tiny little hole n the back of the camera. That is only there to please DSLR enthusiasts. In basket ball one of the rules, "never ask anyone to do anything they don't do well" In low light a Electronic Viewfinder is a night mare, and OVF functions just fine.

I use my K-01 on my tripod for landscape all the time... what I want is a bigger display, preferably something the size of a good cell phone. Something like Apples retina display, taking the whole back of the camera. ANd with an cable for output to an iPad size device for tethering. Put a tilt shift mount on it to go with the focus peeking, and I'm laughing.

For action and wildlife, K-3 all the way.

My future is very different than Sony's.

10-19-2013, 07:49 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
That's like saying you don't like Mitsubishi, but prefer a Volkswagen with a Mitsubishi motor inside.

Secondly, cameras should be compared with the very same lens strapped in front of them and if possible, with the same setting too. And that's how I know for sure that my NEX + FA43 give so much better results then my K-5 + FA43. Same lens, same sensor, different camera body. The latter should be the explanation for the difference in results.

I just see a lot of people here in these threads that have invested lots in K-mount lenses, and can't or won't make the switch to a platform with full frame, be it Canon, Nikon, Sony or (in the near future) Fuji. That's proprietary for you. A much bigger ball and chain then proprietary batteries or cables.
I don't buy it. Same sensor, same lens, different camera body should give you close enough results that you can't tell the difference, assuming you are shooting RAW. The only thing I can assume is that you are making stuff up. It would be like me saying that my K5 II gives much better results than the K5. It does focus a little more consistently, but the RAW files are exactly the same with regard to ability to post process them.

Maybe the issue is that you are not strong enough to hold an SLR steady and so the NEX size works in your favor?
10-19-2013, 08:13 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Sony has gone to the e mount, which isn't great for its users. There aren't a lot of native full frame compatible e mount lenses and the adapter that provides full a mount compatibility with auto focus is bulky and expensive. The problem that I have in general is that these very small camera options are best ergonomically when used with small primes, but honestly, if I get a full frame camera some day, I will want to shoot it with a 70-200 f2.8 lens or a 24-70 f2.8 lens. Doing that for an extended period of time does not look enjoyable.
That covers it well for me. Also, I'm biased against Sony in general - they will support it like crazy, for maybe two years - then get interested in another shiny new toy. They are an electro-tech business first, a camera-maker second, and that won't change any time soon. I like my Pentax gear as the electronics support imaging, they are not in there just because they can be.
10-21-2013, 06:42 AM   #40
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I prefer my full frame Sony NEX-VG900 with adjustable angled OLED EVF and will get the new Sony Vario-Tessar T* FE 24-70mm f/4 ZA OSS Lens to use as a companion zoom OSS lens to my 24mm F1.4, 35mm F1.4, 50mm F1.4 and 85mm F1.4 full frame primes.
10-21-2013, 01:37 PM   #41
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QuoteQuote:
So what do you think of the new Sony camera killer?
I don't think that these first models are killer because remain some important lack but surely their existence will have an impact on the market and the successor probably will be well able to compete with full-frame DSLR entry-level.
But if the AF on the A7 is sufficient good could be sufficiently comparable from the beginning.
10-21-2013, 01:54 PM   #42
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QuoteQuote:
Where did they get the sensor for the K-01?
The K-01 was the only mirrorless with the mirror box but no mirror or VF so it wasn't a mirrorless like the NEX 6 or 7.
10-21-2013, 02:03 PM   #43
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when Sigma puts out 3 good and affordable primes (wide, normal, and short tele), I'll be all over the A7. Until then, they are too rich for my blood
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