[FoTom]

What do I think? The 2 new Sony models are cameras with large sensors. I haven't seen enough about their DR, ISO, AF, etc. to have much of an opinion on whether they are good. I think Sony erred a bit by not having more lenses at launch.

Exactly, it's just that according to a blog post, people are preordering it quite fast at B&H and I thought, well what the hell? So I thought I'd ask, maybe I'm missing something..

[FoTom]

Very intriguing, and Sony has a good track record with the NEX cameras. I'd still want to see some full reviews before purchase. I think Sony has enough lenses, within a few months of launch, but only high end, overpriced, Zeiss glass. They won't have any regular glass until 2015, according to their road-map. This camera is either for really rich guys or people who want to adapt legacy glass. Fortunately for Sony, there are a lot of both of those. I did read that many of the APS-C lenses will work with a 4:3 crop. Hopefully Sigma will take notice of the system and release some glass, and glass that can be used with the PDAF system. None of the 3rd party lenses work with Sony's hybrid AF. Not Sigma's, not Tamron's and not even Zeiss'.

That I hadn't figured out. So [as usual] to make use of a certain feature in that Sony camera [Just the AF, no less], you gotta buy Sony's proprietary accessories -those super-cheap lenses. Wow, way to go and shoot yourself on the foot.

[FoTom]

It's nice to see someone other than Nikon or Canon making FF cameras as it's good for the competition.

Can't wait for the competition to bring out their contenders. So far it's the only mirrorless full-frame, and with what I've now read, the competition will be doing things differently, particularly the lenses, so size will most likely be not-as-small. And still, I think the competition would have the edge over Sony --again.

[FoTom]

I am glad to see Sony coming out with a mirrorless FF camera. The release of these two cameras means to me that Sony has the FF sensor that perhaps Pentax will/may use in the upcoming release of Pentax FF in 2014. To be honest, I am also glad that the K-3 came out as the top-tier APS-C camera before Ricoh releases the half-baked and untested FF SLR. 2014 is going to be an exciting year for Pentax users as we are also hoping for more updates on lenses.

Exactly my thoughts on the Pentax FF. On the lenses, yeah I've got a lot of saving to do

[FoTom]

if pentax does a FF with either of these censors I suspect we will have a much much better camera. I was tempted for about 30 seconds and then started thinking about all the crapping around to get pentax lenses onto it. Who wants a system with three lenses? Anything that provides an issue for me with pentax, this systems will have ten times the issues. My conclusion is I am pretty happy with what I have even if I do lust for more things that pentax does not provide.

Totally agree, I'm also quite happy with my K-01 and will be when I get my K-3 [because I want weather sealing and if I'm already getting a good dSLR, it might as well be the best one there is ] and if Pentax ever comes up with a FF, it will have to have something else than just a no-crop-factor benefit, because I'm already happy with my gear. I think you nailed a very important thing, and maybe only gearheads will lust over this camera even if it's crippled, just for its full-frameness.

[FoTom]

My initial response was very positive.
Its the answer to the long overdue Pentax LX that has been talked and talked about for ages here.
My 3 cabinets of Pentax lenses will now be able to be used on the FF format.
Its also the most inexpensive (for new) FF camera at this point.

Then the more I thought about it, questions came up and I was less enthusiastic.

1. The lenses - expensive, a tad slower. Slower not because they are small like on Pentax lenses. Slower because of edge issues? I have to wait and see.
2. The lenses - Not much choice. UWA will have to be adapted lenses. Might have edge issues with the real small RF wides (eg. CV 12mm; 15mm). Ok - I can adapt SLR wides, but there goes most of the size/weight benefits.
What about those time I am just lazy and want a decently priced AF fast 50mm or 35mm? (ie. none)
3. Does not AF my AF lenses. So I'd rather it be cheaper since its going to be an all MF digital platform (personally I'd wait for it to drop to $1300... perhaps).
4. Small camera, not too small lenses. - defeats the purpose
5. This camera is 'A'7 - yeah right, looks like Sony readily abandons their A-mount user base (with expensive CZ lenses ) and stuffs this 'solution' at them. I will certainly take note and not buy any FE lenses least they give up on it one fine day.
6. Sony users and Nex priests sort of put me off using Sony
7. I do think I can comfortably wait 5-6mths to see if Pentax responds since the chance of that is higher than ever.
8. If I am going to pay $1699, might as well pay a bit more if possible and get AF for the Af lenses when the Pentax one comes along.

You have made me realize several things, and made me remember why I've always thought Sony sucks.

[Kunzite]

The new A7 and A7R EVIL cameras are, in my opinion, what we've been lusting over at Pentax.

If you have been lusting over a Sony-like FF MILC camera, you chose the wrong brand.

And to answer the thread's question: it's just a Sony, I don't understand what all this fuss is about. It doesn't get me any closer to my wish of having a Pentax K-mount "full frame" DSLR.

They look great to me.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5522/10337184266_b6f9a37751_o.jpg

She's cute, indeed.
Looking more carefully - what's that ugly blob she's holding in her hand?

[FoTom]

So ... why do you ask ?

JP

Because it interests me [as a subject, not the camera], and I want to know what other people that know more of photography than myself think =]

[FoTom]

I also agree that the Sony A7 series is where large sensor camera gear is going. The mechanically "complex" mirror box gives way to an electrically "complex" electronic viewfinder. A lot of people want this but some people will still go for the unrivaled clarity of a OVF and hence traditional DSLR cameras will remain. I would love to see some sort of HUD overlaid on a traditional optical viewfinder system and that's what I would choose for myself.

As long as Pentax uses Sony sensors I don't think we'll ever see a large sensor mirrorless Pentax. I bet Pentax and Sony signed a do-not-compete agreement. Sony will provide Pentax sensors as long as Pentax doesn't tread on Sony's mirror less-only camera lineup.

I don't think such agreement would be smart. Ricoh is trying with all its might to revive Pentax, and Sony.. well it's never been in the position Pentax was one day, or Canon and Nikon are right now. And with good reason! They should stick to electronics, their sensors are good, that's for sure, and they do new and creative stuff, but execute them poorly. If Pentax brought out a full-frame camera [with or without a mirror] it would surely have a Sony sensor, and would surely be much better than the Sony version, and I don't think such an agreement exists because that is already happening with the K-3 competing, with Nikon that also uses Sony sensors, and Sony dSLRs which obviously also use Sony sensors.

[Clavius]

I don't think such agreement would be smart. Ricoh is trying with all its might to revive Pentax, and Sony.. well it's never been in the position Pentax was one day, or Canon and Nikon are right now. And with good reason! They should stick to electronics, their sensors are good, that's for sure, and they do new and creative stuff, but execute them poorly. If Pentax brought out a full-frame camera [with or without a mirror] it would surely have a Sony sensor, and would surely be much better than the Sony version, and I don't think such an agreement exists because that is already happening with the K-3 competing, with Nikon that also uses Sony sensors, and Sony dSLRs which obviously also use Sony sensors.

So you say Sony makes good sensors and they make good electronics, but their cameras are not good?!? That's very contradicting. Another ingredient for a camera system is the optics, which Sony has Zeiss for, which is an above excellent optics manufacturer. So you're talking about the camera housing maybe?

[FoTom]

If you have been lusting over a Sony-like FF MILC camera, you chose the wrong brand.

And to answer the thread's question: it's just a Sony, I don't understand what all this fuss is about. It doesn't get me any closer to my wish of having a Pentax K-mount "full frame" DSLR.


She's cute, indeed.
Looking more carefully - what's that ugly blob she's holding in her hand?

No no no, I meant lusting over those features on a Pentax body. Videographers [I'm not in that bunch] wanted uncompressed video straight out of the HDMI port, and this Sony has that. Full-frame sensor of course. Weather resistant. Small. This is what Pentaxians have dreamed of and named it K-02.

It actually might get us closer to a FF Pentax, because guess what sensor[s] we might be using there? And now there's competition [a reason] for a full-frame K-02 to exist, and perhaps that would pave the way for a FF Pentax dSLR. Or at least I wish that haha.

[FoTom]

So you say Sony makes good sensors and they make good electronics, but their cameras are not good?!? That's very contradicting. Another ingredient for a camera system is the optics, which Sony has Zeiss for, which is an above excellent optics manufacturer. So you're talking about the camera housing maybe?

No, one thing is the design and the parts, and another is the execution. Ever tried a Nikon vs a Sony? I hate Nikon [prefer Canon or Pentax] but would choose a Nikon over a Sony anytime. I've used Sony cameras and they simply don't work well for me. That translucent mirror and oh-so-mighty burst rate? For what, if the AF was rubbish, or the image quality isn't good --why, I don't know, but seriously, kit-lens alpha versus kit-lens Canikon is not a tough battle. Smudgy pictures, good but expensive lenses, overpriced cameras, Apple-esque practices with their proprietary accessories and some times not giving you a choice for the industry standard options, simple stuff like like hot-shoes. And if you think I'm wrong, why don't we all in the photography world call it Sonykon or Canonykon.. Sony is not an industry top brand, but Nikon -using Sony sensors, is.

[Clavius]

No, one thing is the design and the parts, and another is the execution. Ever tried a Nikon vs a Sony? I hate Nikon [prefer Canon or Pentax] but would choose a Nikon over a Sony anytime. I've used Sony cameras and they simply don't work well for me. That translucent mirror and oh-so-mighty burst rate? For what, if the AF was rubbish, or the image quality isn't good --why, I don't know, but seriously, kit-lens alpha versus kit-lens Canikon is not a tough battle. Smudgy pictures, good but expensive lenses, overpriced cameras, Apple-esque practices with their proprietary accessories and some times not giving you a choice for the industry standard options, simple stuff like like hot-shoes. And if you think I'm wrong, why don't we all in the photography world call it Sonykon or Canonykon.. Sony is not an industry top brand, but Nikon -using Sony sensors, is.

That's like saying you don't like Mitsubishi, but prefer a Volkswagen with a Mitsubishi motor inside.

Secondly, cameras should be compared with the very same lens strapped in front of them and if possible, with the same setting too. And that's how I know for sure that my NEX + FA43 give so much better results then my K-5 + FA43. Same lens, same sensor, different camera body. The latter should be the explanation for the difference in results.

I just see a lot of people here in these threads that have invested lots in K-mount lenses, and can't or won't make the switch to a platform with full frame, be it Canon, Nikon, Sony or (in the near future) Fuji. That's proprietary for you. A much bigger ball and chain then proprietary batteries or cables.

[Rondec]

Sony has gone to the e mount, which isn't great for its users. There aren't a lot of native full frame compatible e mount lenses and the adapter that provides full a mount compatibility with auto focus is bulky and expensive. The problem that I have in general is that these very small camera options are best ergonomically when used with small primes, but honestly, if I get a full frame camera some day, I will want to shoot it with a 70-200 f2.8 lens or a 24-70 f2.8 lens. Doing that for an extended period of time does not look enjoyable.

I do hope Pentax comes out with a full frame camera, but I hope they won't emulate Sony here. Ditching the k mount for a new mount, in particular, would only antagonize the Pentaxians who would be interested in full frame. There really aren't that many folks who have a large stash of Leica lenses that they are just waiting for Pentax to come out with a full frame mirrorless camera with short registration distance so they can mount them.

[Honest Meyer]

The size is my problem with it. If i wanted a camera with interchangeabel lenses, i would have stuck to what i got. I need something quick and easy but still highly capable.