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10-30-2013, 05:48 AM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I consider myself "old-fashioned" but I don't see the point in moving backwards in terms of ergonomics and flexibility just to make something look like its from the "good old days".
I think this is all a consequence of design failures in recent cameras.

Personally, I think all recent cameras (except the single digit K-#) are plain ugly. Which made people look back. And created a retro wave for cameras.

Where modern design actually delivers (like smartphones, cars, notebooks, kitchen furniture etc.) there is no urge for retro.

I guess a single well executed camera design turns the entire game upside down. But it takes more than hiring a single designer to do so. The effort behind modern industrial design is huge. I know it from some friends working at BMW. And I believe Apple when they say they fighted for every single 1/100mm in the iPadAir design.

Now, if the Nikon Df is going to be a film camera look-alike then I'll be disppointed. Would be a challenge non taken. Recent grabs from the videos almost look like this. Let's hope that the real thing has more to it than just being a Nikon anniversary model.




Last edited by falconeye; 10-30-2013 at 05:58 AM.
10-30-2013, 08:40 AM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote

I consider myself "old-fashioned" but I don't see the point in moving backwards in terms of ergonomics and flexibility just to make something look like its from the "good old days".
I still shoot medium format film cameras because I like the experience of manual film cameras and metering my own scene in addition to "real" BW.

So does something like this appeal to me? Youbetcha. I have a fancy DSLR if I need it. Maybe that helps put things into perspective?
10-30-2013, 08:53 AM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I still shoot medium format film cameras because I like the experience of manual film cameras and metering my own scene in addition to "real" BW.

So does something like this appeal to me? Youbetcha. I have a fancy DSLR if I need it. Maybe that helps put things into perspective?
Is a non-gripped camera really an issue? With small lenses I actually find the ME/MX series Pentax bodies the most comfortable to use, of all the cameras I ever owned.

An optional grip like the Olympus OM would probably be in order for this body.

I hope that the 750gram weight is not correct though.
10-30-2013, 09:04 AM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
Is a non-gripped camera really an issue?
If you cannot comfortably hold a camera without inadvertently pushing buttons, then a grip is a good solution. Another reason for a grip might be to aid holding a camera with a big, heavy telephoto on it.

10-30-2013, 10:18 AM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Recent grabs from the videos almost look like this. Let's hope that the real thing has more to it than just being a Nikon anniversary model.

That looks awesome!
10-31-2013, 12:02 PM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I don't get the excitement about a camera that appears to look like a film camera from the 80's.
The 80s are considered by many to be the peak for SLR film cameras. Most brands reached a sweet spot balancing features with quality and price. For many of us, a dSLR with the same feel and functionality would be a welcome relief from the current product.


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11-01-2013, 02:44 AM   #142
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More images of the Nikon Df plus video teaser #5 are available: Nikon Df Pure Photography video teaser #5 | Nikon Rumors

According to one of the photos, it looks like the max shutter speed is 1/4000th..



I'm still curious as to how it's a "hybrid" camera. Possibly a hybrid optical/EVF a la the Fuji X-Pro1? If one can digitally preview the image in the viewfinder before taking the shot, it'd probably result in less chimping.. kind of like how you try to get everything right in the viewfinder when shooting film as you don't have the luxury of a rear LCD, resulting in a more "pure photography" experience. Maybe that explains the "??" switch in the photo below..



11-01-2013, 05:39 AM   #143
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The final specs

Well, I think I know all I need to know now. Chasseur d'Images (CI) has recently commented on what they know (which is everything almost) and this a generation 50+ camera which will turn people down.

Base specs:
- Retro L&F citing the 70s specifically, incl. the aperture lens forkand Nikon logo font
- Not one technical innovation
- 3000$ w/o lens
- D4 sensor and D4-based viewfinder
- D610 otherwise, 1/4000s, 39Pts AF, 5.5 fps
- Hybrid shutter with a special electromechanical mode which is slower in fps, but also quieter and consumes less power. Probably needed to meter and stop down these old lenses (my guess).
- 50/1.8 lens with retro look but still no aperture ring
- single SD slot
- shutter dial and other dials on the top plate.
- fixed 3.2" rear LCD
- 765g, still heavier and thicker than film SLRs

This is for a few wealthy photographers grown up in the 70s and thinking backwards. It will turn down any forward thinking person. Which is sad because the vision of a more pure photographic experience is good.

CI says Nikon is going through a crisis currently. Lack of innovation, Nikon 1 dead end, lack of vision. And the Df is just a visible sign of this.

It is sad though.

An essential edition artist's (rather than nerd's) camera for half the price (1500$), with emphasis on photographic features (e.g., 3 dials for shutter, iso, aperture) and a clean design referring to the FM without actually emulating it, could have been a smash hit.

So close, but still missed the ball.

(source: Chasseur d'Images - Les infos de la Rédac' )
11-01-2013, 06:02 AM   #144
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No aperture ring!! Waste of time. But theres definitely a market for that stuff. Who thought as many people would plunk down the cash for the rx1?
11-01-2013, 06:18 AM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by bibz Quote
No aperture ring!! Waste of time. But theres definitely a market for that stuff. Who thought as many people would plunk down the cash for the rx1?
The RX1 does make a hell lot of sense. No other camera can deliver such high IQ in such a small package and affordable price (lens alone is an optical wonder you couldn't afford as an interchangeable lens). A7/r included. And it is rather pure photography too, with the VF.
11-01-2013, 08:35 AM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Well, I think I know all I need to know now. Chasseur d'Images (CI) has recently commented on what they know (which is everything almost) and this a generation 50+ camera which will turn people down.

Base specs:
- Retro L&F citing the 70s specifically, incl. the aperture lens forkand Nikon logo font
- Not one technical innovation
- 3000$ w/o lens
- D4 sensor and D4-based viewfinder
- D610 otherwise, 1/4000s, 39Pts AF, 5.5 fps
- Hybrid shutter with a special electromechanical mode which is slower in fps, but also quieter and consumes less power. Probably needed to meter and stop down these old lenses (my guess).
- 50/1.8 lens with retro look but still no aperture ring
- single SD slot
- shutter dial and other dials on the top plate.
- fixed 3.2" rear LCD
- 765g, still heavier and thicker than film SLRs

This is for a few wealthy photographers grown up in the 70s and thinking backwards. It will turn down any forward thinking person. Which is sad because the vision of a more pure photographic experience is good.

CI says Nikon is going through a crisis currently. Lack of innovation, Nikon 1 dead end, lack of vision. And the Df is just a visible sign of this.

It is sad though.

An essential edition artist's (rather than nerd's) camera for half the price (1500$), with emphasis on photographic features (e.g., 3 dials for shutter, iso, aperture) and a clean design referring to the FM without actually emulating it, could have been a smash hit.

So close, but still missed the ball.

(source: Chasseur d'Images - Les infos de la Rédac' )
ow retro, lets make it shiney and expensive for the babyboomers with money to go down memorylane:

11-01-2013, 08:42 AM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
ow retro
The Df isn't retro, it is 70s mimicry.

Retro actually can look rather nice, New Beetle and New Mini are other examples.
11-01-2013, 09:23 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
ow retro, lets make it shiney and expensive for the babyboomers with money to go down memorylane:
You are lusting for a 645D, right? That looks like a "retro" camera to me and you shoot it with mostly legacy glass too. In fact it looks more like the original film camera than this DF.
11-04-2013, 07:01 AM   #149
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Some pics of the new Nikon Df camera (usual provisos) have appeared:

This is the Nikon Df camera | Nikon Rumors

Like the top-plate set-up myself. Hard to tell what the whole camera will really look and feel like - web images can be so misleading. This certainly doesn't look like an inexpensive plastic fantastic, however.

If the camera does what it does really really well, then I'm not sure any alleged lack of innovation will matter very much. Too many things suffer from Over Innovation Syndrome to the point of exploding. Beautifully executing the basics has its virtues too, though whether that's the case here is unknown.
11-04-2013, 07:23 AM   #150
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Supporting a cable release is flatly ridiculous, and the mess of anonymous switches is not indicative of good design.
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