Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-21-2013, 03:54 AM   #16
Veteran Member
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,149
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
The most unbelievable fact in all this is that users have had a much better nose than the company itself. I believe almost everyone believed retro styled DSLR would be something a company like Pentax will venture into, and indeed, users were begging Pentax for it for years.
In vain.
Very true. That goes for the MILC too. So many users wanted it for its advantages. We all would have expected Pentax to be the one to pioneer that. What the users got was a MILC crippled with the disadvantages of a DSLR. I have no idea what Pentax is afraid of.

And it applies to lenses faster lenses... Wider fast lenses... Flash capabilities... etc...

It all boils down to marketing, which we all know has been lacking. They're the ones that should find what markets to explore. It isn't very difficult either, they should just read the "dear Pentax"-thread. Lots of genius suggestions there... Lots of crappy ones too, of course...

10-21-2013, 04:37 AM   #17
Banned




Join Date: May 2010
Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,535
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Very true. That goes for the MILC too. So many users wanted it for its advantages. We all would have expected Pentax to be the one to pioneer that. What the users got was a MILC crippled with the disadvantages of a DSLR. I have no idea what Pentax is afraid of.
It doesn't need to be an FF at all; I, amongst many, was suggesting APS-C retro / slimmer body for use with DA Limiteds. They want sales of those lenses, right? An APS-C camera can be even smaller than this rumoured Nikon and truly match the MX or ME Super size. A perfect answer for Fuji mirrorless and likes. Etc.

However, I think we are wasting our breath. It's best for me to stop looking at these announcements — it's depressing. As said before, K-3 is great for its own sake, but if Ricoh thinks K-3 and rehashed consumer zoom is everything Pentax users were waiting for in 2013, or that it alone can keep them excited .. I wish them all the luck.

Because other boys in this game know this is the time where their fate is decided, they are playing seriously and are pulling out best and biggest bets for the sake of their future and leaving no chance to others to take.

Last edited by Uluru; 10-21-2013 at 04:50 AM.
10-21-2013, 04:38 AM   #18
Veteran Member
mecrox's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,375
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
That's why I'm so sceptic about the whole Pentax FF unicorn. If they were really actually serious about it, then they wouldn't let all these oppertunities slip through their fingers so easily. They should at least start with teasers yesterday, even if the actual announcement will be as far back as September 2014. All the silence about this topic is hurting them and is going to hurt much more. Even if they won't be developing an FF after all, that would be OK too. It's the silence that's frustating people.
It wouldn't be OK too if Ricoh bailed from any kind of FF.

If this Nikon turns out be real and a real performer then it could be the second camera in a week to take a bite out of Ricoh's hoped-for sales of high-end APS-C equipment, including high-end lens sales. Fast forward six months, and Fuji, Canon and Samsung might also be nibbling away with their own variations on the theme. Canon and Nikon have the big sticker, big old FF DSLR market locked down. Everyone is fighting over the alternatives and some directly impinge on APS-C. I don't see how Ricoh can ignore this and not take a nasty hit. If "compact FF" becomes established with some bold new ideas (Sony, probably soon Fuji, etc.), how many people are really going to continue to purchase old-school APS-C gear at nearly the same price and, sometimes, pay more for some of the lenses? I don't see it myself.

Last edited by mecrox; 10-21-2013 at 04:50 AM.
10-21-2013, 04:43 AM   #19
Veteran Member
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,149
And the price of an FF system will be going down. The number of competing brands and individual cameras is going up. Indeed Fuji and Samsung are working on their own versions. And all those brands will be trying to be more interesting then the next one.

This is exactly as predicted by many... Only 5 years earlier.

10-21-2013, 04:47 AM   #20
Veteran Member
Dr Orloff's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brighton, England
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 512
I don't see it either. A good hand was played by Ricoh with the K3. But it has been trumped, twice.
10-21-2013, 04:54 AM   #21
Banned




Join Date: May 2010
Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,535
QuoteOriginally posted by Dr Orloff Quote
I don't see it either. A good hand was played by Ricoh with the K3. But it has been trumped, twice.
Because K-3 wasn't anything out of ordinary schedule. A7 is something entirely new. Retro Nikon FF is something new.
K-3 was just a long, long overdue real replacement for the K-5 and that's all — everyone knew it was coming, and what it's supposed to be.

What users were expecting from Ricoh was something new in addition to that daily bread, or bare minimum that keeps the K-mount alive. Because only new ideas would show a real dedication. So far, Ricoh is only ticking off its long overdue debts and Pentax is still in intensive care unit.

Last edited by Uluru; 10-21-2013 at 05:00 AM.
10-21-2013, 04:59 AM   #22
Banned




Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NY/Germany
Posts: 1,183
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
K-3 was just a long, long overdue real replacement for the K-5
It was introduced shortly after the D7100, so why is it "long, long overdue" here? Because it's Pentax? We're (thankfully) not on these 1 year or 3/4 year release schedules anymore and the equipment development has slowed down due to technology approaching a wall and needing to be rethought. We're seeing the same with the 5DII/III, D700, and on and on and on.

10-21-2013, 05:09 AM   #23
Veteran Member
bossa's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 4,546
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
The most unbelievable fact in all this is that users have had a much better nose than the company itself. I believe almost everyone believed retro styled DSLR would be something a company like Pentax will venture into, and indeed, users were begging Pentax for it for years.
In vain.
Hence my thread (started b4 this one) entitled "Where's My LX-D Ricoh"

If they don't at least announce something a week or so after the K-3 starts shipping then you can kiss the idea goodbye.
10-21-2013, 05:17 AM   #24
Banned




Join Date: May 2010
Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,535
QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
It was introduced shortly after the D7100, so why is it "long, long overdue" here? Because it's Pentax? We're (thankfully) not on these 1 year or 3/4 year release schedules anymore and the equipment development has slowed down due to technology approaching a wall and needing to be rethought. We're seeing the same with the 5DII/III, D700, and on and on and on.

Ideally, the K-3 should have been here 12 months ago to be right on time, because the K-5 was introduced in 2010 and was due for an update in 2012 indeed. However, unlike Nikon or Canon, Pentax doesn't have an FF line, or a vast variety of camera models that overlap in specifications to apply a more relaxed approach in updates. So any comparison with D700/800 or 5D/II/III alone makes no sense. The FF in general didn't sell so well before, so those lines were updated at a slower pace.

But Nikon wants to make investors happy, counteract declining DSLR camera sales with newer offers that give more value for $$ (at lest what customers believe), and the entire market now experiences more constant FF updates — and an addition of an all new body philosophy as well. Retro DSLR style.

However, despite all that, times are very confusing too. For example, everyone was hoping for D400, and Nikon releases retro FF. On the other other hand, everyone was expecting Pentax to release a retro DSLR, and they released a D400.
10-21-2013, 05:20 AM   #25
Banned




Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NY/Germany
Posts: 1,183
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Ideally, the K-3 should have been here 12 months ago to be right on time, because the K-5 was introduced in 2010 and was due for an update in 2012 indeed
I'm trying to understand why products MUST be updated according to a date schedule and not when the technology matures. Then you guys complain about incremental changes, or premature rollout.

This is partly why these companies need to universally stop listening to people.
10-21-2013, 05:22 AM   #26
Veteran Member
bossa's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 4,546
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
.....I think both Sony and Nikon will introduce just about anything and see how it works. What sticks best, they will push further.
Here lies the key. Pentax is a small concern which has to target specific developments - if they turn out to be wrong then it's adios.
10-21-2013, 05:28 AM   #27
Banned




Join Date: May 2010
Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,535
QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
I'm trying to understand why products MUST be updated according to a date schedule and not when the technology matures. Then you guys complain about incremental changes, or premature rollout.
This is partly why these companies need to universally stop listening to people.
Yes, you are right. But indeed, the K-3 was ready in 2012, but not like this one we have today. It was indeed postponed.
However, everyone was hoping that along with one more year of waiting, something else may come.
Let's wait some more ...
10-21-2013, 05:29 AM   #28
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 15,132
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
What users were expecting from Ricoh was something new in addition to that daily bread, or bare minimum that keeps the K-mount alive. Because only new ideas would show a real dedication. So far, Ricoh is only ticking off its long overdue debts and Pentax is still in intensive care unit.
That's so completely wrong.
1. Many Pentax users are expecting improved Pentax-style products, instead of "something new". We like Pentax for what they are, we're not imagining a completely different entity and label it "Pentax".
2. Real dedication is the complete opposite of trying only new ideas. You try only new ideas when you have no direction; otherwise you'll have a strategy and follow it.
I expect Ricoh Imaging to have a strategy and to follow it relentlessly (of course, adapting to the ever-changing market conditions). I don't expect Ricoh Imaging to jump in all directions, as soon as the next market fad starts being rumored.
3. Ricoh is profitable and pouring money (their words!) into Ricoh Imaging, including Pentax.
Ricoh Imaging is expected to make a profit in this fiscal year (no longer being burdened with restructuring costs).
10-21-2013, 05:32 AM   #29
Banned




Join Date: May 2010
Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,535
QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
Here lies the key. Pentax is a small concern which has to target specific developments - if they turn out to be wrong then it's adios.
I'm still hoping they are waiting for announcements of others and see their price points.
They must have one more shot for the 2013 — they simply can't leave it at this.
10-21-2013, 05:32 AM   #30
Pentaxian




Join Date: Oct 2010
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 6,241
QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
Here lies the key. Pentax is a small concern which has to target specific developments - if they turn out to be wrong then it's adios.
This is quite true!

I wonder about that thing, if any big companies can really afford to try how thick ice is with this kind a products...? especially when economics is what it is.

this seems to be great for nikon fans. But also it seems to be quite niche product, steering down to already existing line done by fujifilm...so not so experimenting. and price tag must be quite big too. If Ricoh would pull this out now, I really do doubt that they would be making so much money with that. Maybe there is coming more serious camera to companie MX-1?
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
announcement, camera, nikon, weeks
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FF: Nikon or Canon Cyberex Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands 23 02-21-2013 03:45 PM
Nikon FF body, Pentax lenses voyager13 Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 21 11-01-2012 02:41 AM
Re-cycling another Pentax FF rumour/FF rumor from A German photography magazine rawr Pentax Full Frame 73 09-19-2012 01:12 PM
Yet another new toy ( Nikon Coolmax P500 w/22.5-810mm eqiv lens) jogiba Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands 4 07-10-2012 07:13 PM
Nikon D800 FF due soon? joe.penn Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands 8 12-26-2011 11:53 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:48 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top