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02-19-2014, 04:04 PM   #76
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I find sensor reflection usually has more to do with the lenses being used. I haven't experienced it on my a7 yet. However I have seen it with some Tamron adaptall lenses on my k5 both 90mm and 17mm and 1:1 adapter is really bad. I will give it a shot and see if I can get some reflection on the a7. Here is a set of photos I just did with lots of back lighting.LMC Norma Jeans Showcase Feb 2014 - a set on Flickr

02-19-2014, 04:31 PM   #77
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Christine, have you used the camera in the rain yet? I can't really imagine where the light leak is coming from, but if it leaks light, it might leak water too. I haven't heard of any failures so far, so maybe it is a non - issue.
02-19-2014, 06:58 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sliver-Surfer Quote
I find sensor reflection usually has more to do with the lenses being used. I haven't experienced it on my a7 yet. However I have seen it with some Tamron adaptall lenses on my k5 both 90mm and 17mm and 1:1 adapter is really bad. I will give it a shot and see if I can get some reflection on the a7. Here is a set of photos I just did with lots of back lighting.LMC Norma Jeans Showcase Feb 2014 - a set on Flickr
You won't get much if any issues on those conditions you posted the link to.

Often, its when lens is stopped down, light source shining at/into lens, UWA.



QuoteOriginally posted by jcdoss Quote
Christine, have you used the camera in the rain yet? I can't really imagine where the light leak is coming from, but if it leaks light, it might leak water too. I haven't heard of any failures so far, so maybe it is a non - issue.
I think she did say it was a 'non-issue' in real use. (note the very high ISO and exposure time it took for here to create the problem)

---------- Post added 02-20-2014 at 10:08 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
Sony Canada has absolutely NO IDEA and the "chat" staff reports: "There is no known issue about this.", unbelievable!
I've just spent a few minutes chatting with them at 8:01 to 8:09 EST.
She added:
"There is no known issue with regard to the camera's image sensor."
"It may be a case to case basis, but it is not a known issue."
"If there is something wrong with a particular unit, it can be sent to our service center to have it repaired."


Of course, Pentax Ricoh Canada is also rather clueless when it comes to admitting, for a lack of knowledge apparently, that there could be something wrong in a product.

So, this is a show stopper for me, for now, until this sensor reflection/light leak is solved.

JP
My take on it is "Don't live in fear"

Generally, its fine.
I mentioned it a few times, that I have shot various genres and its not an issue.
Night event; streets; still life; studio portraits; outdoor natural light portraits - all no issue
Even for landscapes, its not all the time (at the moment, perhaps 1 of 5 compositions in a session; and not in all sessions).
Even then, its 'tolerable' though distracting and probably can be cloned out or reduced.


Of course, everyone has different tolerance levels to what they expect from their shots and cameras (even what they want to use the camera for).
So its a very personal decision.

Wait for a Pentax FF solution (hopefully in 2014) or see if this is fixed or A8 solves this in X years, or a better camera comes out from someone within that time, if one is really uncomfortable with it.
Thats the purpose of me bring up the issue anyway, so that folks considering the camera is aware and make up their own mind if its ok or not.
02-20-2014, 03:20 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by jcdoss Quote
Christine, have you used the camera in the rain yet? I can't really imagine where the light leak is coming from, but if it leaks light, it might leak water too. I haven't heard of any failures so far, so maybe it is a non - issue.
Have you watched the video of my NEX6 getting completely soaked in water? It still functions fine, and no water reached the sensor:

As Roger Cicala pointed out, "weather resistance" is mostly a marketing term. I basically ignore it as a spec. Most of the stuff I have works fine in the rain (regardless of whether they are marketed as weather sealed or not).

I wouldn't dip them into water (at least, not for any great length of time) or under a running tap but otherwise I am not worried.

02-20-2014, 08:48 AM   #80
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Apologies if this has already been covered ITT, but is this statement about the A7 accurate:

"This is not a stealth camera, and if you are shooting in a quiet location, the sound from the shutter will echo throughout. It is by far the loudest shutter mechanism I’ve used on a mirrorless camera, and is even louder than many DSLR shutters."
Review: Sony A7 - Page 4 of 5 - Admiring Light

I know from my NEX experience (NEX-5, NEX-F3) that shutter noise does seem partly lens dependent (big lens = more muted noise, lens on an adapter = bit more noise than usual etc), but the shutter noise of my NEX has always made me somewhat reluctant to use it in quiet places. Is the shutter noise of the larger A7 any worse or better than an APS-C NEX?
02-20-2014, 12:06 PM   #81
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The shutter sound on my A7r is definitely louder than NEX, but no louder than a typical DSLR.

It's not a stealth camera for sure - I wouldn't use it (for example) to shoot up women's skirts :-)

But I have used it in quiet places like State Library and Art Gallery and no one has batted an eyelid. No one hears it when I shoot in the street.

It's definitely not as loud as the shutter on the EOS 1D - I have seen people jump in fear when I shoot the EOS 1D (MkIII, MKIV) in burst mode :-)
02-20-2014, 12:13 PM - 1 Like   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
The shutter sound on my A7r is definitely louder than NEX, but no louder than a typical DSLR.

It's not a stealth camera for sure - I wouldn't use it (for example) to shoot up women's skirts :-)

But I have used it in quiet places like State Library and Art Gallery and no one has batted an eyelid. No one hears it when I shoot in the street.

It's definitely not as loud as the shutter on the EOS 1D - I have seen people jump in fear when I shoot the EOS 1D (MkIII, MKIV) in burst mode :-)
I want to rent a D4 one day and go motor drive and see if I can get people to duck from the machine gun fire

02-20-2014, 12:49 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
I want to rent a D4 one day and go motor drive and see if I can get people to duck from the machine gun fire
02-20-2014, 02:44 PM - 1 Like   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
The shutter sound on my A7r is definitely louder than NEX, but no louder than a typical DSLR.
Aha. Thanks. The K-5 and K-3 have gotten me used to very quiet shutters.
Not for up-skirt , but just unobtrusive interior shooting.

I shot a regular gig last year with the K-5 and had to shoot very close to a seated audience while musicians performed often very soft pieces. The K-5 never disturbed the scene, but once or twice when people brought along their regular DSLR's, they were asked to stop shooting. My NEX-F3 wouldn't have worked at that gig either. The shutter noise of NEX is quite loud and distinctive.
02-21-2014, 10:15 AM   #85
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RAWR is right. There are venues where camera noise is not cool.

I'm the photography coordinator for a live play theatre and its my job to go around and tell any photographers i've invited to turn off their: beeps, focus assist lights, flashes. One actress asked that i turn off the shutters, so i had to explain that dslrs are not like PS cams. Shooters that can't or won't keep the noise down, i don't invite back

But yes, i have the K5 and K3 and they appear to have the same quiet shutters depending on what lenses are attached. My nexs seem louder to me. I've always thought that Pentax should brag about their quiet shutters more than they do.
02-21-2014, 02:35 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I've always thought that Pentax should brag about their quiet shutters more than they do.
My K-5 had a quieter normal shutter than my D600 does in quiet mode, but the screw drive motor is much louder than my D600's. I don't know if that was improved with the K-3. Overall, my D600, with quiet shutter, and a screw drive lens, is quieter than a K-5 with a screw drive lens.

Last edited by kenafein; 02-21-2014 at 02:40 PM.
02-21-2014, 03:16 PM   #87
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Asking someone to "turn off the shutters" is not an unreasonable request. There are a few cameras with exactly that functionality, because the shutter sound is generated by a speaker.

I used the RX100 to shoot a concert a friend was performing in last year, and because the camera is nearly silent with the shutter sound turned off, I was able to get really close without disturbing the singers. I think the Nikon 1 is also virtually noiseless when shutter sound is disabled.
02-21-2014, 04:08 PM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Asking someone to "turn off the shutters" is not an unreasonable request. There are a few cameras with exactly that functionality, because the shutter sound is generated by a speaker.

I used the RX100 to shoot a concert a friend was performing in last year, and because the camera is nearly silent with the shutter sound turned off, I was able to get really close without disturbing the singers. I think the Nikon 1 is also virtually noiseless when shutter sound is disabled.
The Nikon V1 has physical and electronic modes for the shutter, but maybe the lower models are electronic only.
02-21-2014, 09:10 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
The Nikon V1 has physical and electronic modes for the shutter, but maybe the lower models are electronic only.
On the V1 and V2 you can switch to electronic curtain for the shutter, and then it is as quiet as the J1, J2, J3, S1 etc.

Forgot to mention, Canon 5D Mk III and 1Dx also have "quiet modes" - the 5D3 in particular is almost silent in that mode.
02-22-2014, 12:23 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
On the V1 and V2 you can switch to electronic curtain for the shutter, and then it is as quiet as the J1, J2, J3, S1 etc.

Forgot to mention, Canon 5D Mk III and 1Dx also have "quiet modes" - the 5D3 in particular is almost silent in that mode.
I'm not sure of all my facts but: It seems like the 1" and below sensors, Nikon V1, V2, Sony RX100, are the ones that have electronic shutters and can have their shutter noise turned off. Nikon had the D70, aps of course, with an all-electronic shutter, but for some reason didn't keep that feature on follow models, The Nex aps sensor-ed cameras, most if not all had the option for the electronic first curtain which reduced the shutter noise. I did a long exposure with my Nex 6 recently and one hears absolutely nothing when it starts its long exposure, then one hears the mechanical shutter at the end of the exposure. Cool.

A7 with its FF sensor, has an electronic first curtain shutter like its smaller aps sensor-ed Nex cams, but the A7r does not have the option - don't know why.

Good to hear about the 5D Mk III and its quiet shutter. I wonder if that is a benefit to video work. I believe i read that the D600 camera wasn't much quieter in its quiet mode than the non-quiet mode. If its important to one's work, quiet shutters should be checked out personally or thoroughly researched.

Took some shots last night at an awards ceremony for featured playwrights in an upcoming festival. I was close to the stage and other people sitting around me, and the K3 seemed very quiet and did me proud.
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