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11-06-2013, 03:26 PM   #16
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Why going back to the pass!! The only reason company do it is because they could do money. Otherwise is just fade. Nikon and Cannon can do it in enough volume to justify it

11-06-2013, 11:26 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
Thing is, what would a truly simple camera interface be like, one that allows one as much or as little input as one desires?
You mean something like this?
11-06-2013, 11:36 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
As a person who meters their own scene with a one-degree spot meter on medium and large format film, I'd argue you are missing a step toward that "pure photography" experience on a semi-automatic camera like that Leica.
I remember reading about people like you in DSM-IV :-)
11-06-2013, 11:42 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
I remember reading about people like you in DSM-IV :-)
Really, you read that? Sounds like your focus peaking is faster than a high end AF DSLR story to me.

11-07-2013, 12:09 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Really, you read that? Sounds like your focus peaking is faster than a high end AF DSLR story to me.
LOL ... whatever you say ... backs off slowly ...
11-07-2013, 06:44 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
You mean something like this?
Yeah, that's it!


Certainly not this:





11-07-2013, 11:45 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
You mean something like this?
That's a good point actually. What's more pure than an iphone? Take pic and edit and share it the next instant....

11-07-2013, 12:25 PM   #23
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"Pure" can mean anything, and yes I would argue the iPhone at one level defines the purest essence of photography (it's about sharing a moment, not the actual photo taking mechanism).

However, the point I originally was trying to make was to distinguish between the parameters that actually are part of the photography process, rather than a manifestation of the technology or the camera. If you read a book on photography (yes I know some of us don't ...) the key parameters are aperture, focal length, focus distance, shutter speed and timing.

If you pick up any film camera, those are the key parameters that every manual camera exposes as controls - whether it's my Pentax Spotmatic, a Leica, or the Graflex Nesster posted pictures of.

Yes, we can all boast about standing one legged on top of a mountain holding a light meter and a medium format camera whilst sniffing chemicals ... but let's not, shall we? :-)

Nikon's definition of "pure" seems to be - let's take a modern DSLR, with downmarket specs, and let's expose every control we can think of with a steampunk design aesthetic.

Great if it rocks your boat. I am sure the sort of people who like that sort of thing will really enjoy the camera.
11-07-2013, 12:52 PM   #24
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I read (and anything later than 70's, re-read in some cases) old photography magazines.

There was a time any exposure automation was viewed with suspicion, as somehow taking decisions away from the photographer
There was a time auto focus was also viewed with suspicion... and buttons instead of dials, and menus instead of buttons...

QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
the key parameters are aperture, focal length, focus distance, shutter speed and
And capture medium speed...

So a camera with in many respects Nikon's top sensor (we're all too sophisticated to go for the MP race, aren't we?), which is perhaps the one of theirs that is best suited to getting the most out of legacy lenses, and one that allows a different, tactile, and yeah steam punk, approach to controlling these things is not a poor thing, just different... and yet, in this day and age, they do have to make the other things available one way or another.

That National Graflex by the way is the most complicated, easily screwed-up camera mechanism I've ever encountered.
11-07-2013, 01:21 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote

And capture medium speed...
That's not an independent parameter, but it influences exposure time, whether it's film speed or sensor gain or whatever. Which is not to say that ISO control is unimportant - it is.

I'm not arguing against the Df - as I said, I am sure the people who are into it's design philosophy and aesthetics will love it. I do question about why there are no manual focusing aids but hey I won't be using the camera so I don't care.

As for specs - the Df seems downmarket in comparison to the D4 and D800, but again I don't really care one way or another - it's just an observation.
11-07-2013, 02:44 PM   #26
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From some of the videos I've seen so far on this DF, it looks like you could set it in auto ISO mode, aperture priority, put on an AF lens, use front and rear command dials and shoot away just like any other DSLR. The black one looks more like a regular DSLR too. At that point you have a stripped down D4, it seems. And they make a leather every-ready case which I really like for walking around cameras.
11-07-2013, 03:22 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
From some of the videos I've seen so far on this DF, it looks like you could set it in auto ISO mode, aperture priority, put on an AF lens, use front and rear command dials and shoot away just like any other DSLR. The black one looks more like a regular DSLR too. At that point you have a stripped down D4, it seems. And they make a leather every-ready case which I really like for walking around cameras.
Yeah, basically a gripless D4. I guess it's good for people that always wanted one.

It's weird that I love ever ready case but only without the actual cover, just the one that attaches to the body.
11-07-2013, 07:53 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Nikon had a motto when they were making the camera; namely, less is more. The Market department heard that and complied. So they charged us more for less.
This is damn witty! LOL!
11-13-2013, 12:18 PM   #29
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An Appeal for Divergence and Simplicity

Says some things I'm glad are being said.

*unfortunately* I don't think the Internet Pundits and Reviewers (as well as paper magazine ones) know how to spin prose over actual meaningful utility and performance, so rather spends time repeating all the features and gizmos and how they work, or whether they are omitted. Hence, there are a few people online I'd trust to grok the Df, and to evaluate its utility and performance for what it is.

Last edited by Nesster; 11-13-2013 at 12:49 PM.
11-16-2013, 12:55 AM   #30
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Here are a few things about the Df that I applaud:
  • Much better support for open-aperture metering with legacy glass
  • No video
  • No built-in flash
  • Relatively compact chassis (yes, it is possible to build a small-bodied FF dSLR if you trim features to allow a smaller battery)
  • Option for modal exposure controls (at least with non-chipped lenses)
I hate to say it, but this is the kind of camera that I had been hoping that Pentax would release, though with Pentax many of the technical issues could be addressed by simply de-crippling the mount for backward compatibility and open-aperture metering for all K-mount glass.


Steve
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